Valderrama Verdict?

[Northcal19]

Early in the year I was vocal about benching Valderrama. Obviously that hasn't happened, the Raps are mired in mediocrity, and el Pibe is sitting on 10 assists. I am not sure how many of those are primary assists, let's say 7. At this stage of the season, are we a better team with Carlos in the middle?

Sometimes I marvel at his flashes, the deft balls he puts through to an attacker, but we have to back him up with 2 d-mids. His contribution on the defensive end is nada, and he doesn't score. I don't think that there is another league comparable in talent to MLS where he would play, and so it seems he is something of an "attraction" but maybe not the prototypical central midfielder.

Any thoughts.

[greenie]

My opinion has generally been that as the speed of the game has increased over the the last 10 years, the reliance on a pure playmaker has dropped.

Top club and country teams worldwide rarely seem to employ a ball controlling, passing wizard, the type of #10 that was greatly coveted for so many years. Instead, the center mids of the modern game are those that are as deadly on attack as the forwards, deadly enough that defenders must mark them closely.

Valderrama's effectiveness is limited by his ability to score himself. Opposing defenses have long found it easy to simply mark all of his targets closely and simply contain the Mop; Pibe's magic only works if there's an opening.

Center mids with an eye for attack and finishing ability however, can create these openings themselves. They force defenders to play a tight mark on them, which in turn takes defenders away from their target forwards and wide midfielders.

For all the immense skill he may have in holding and passing the ball, there is nothing else left in Valderrama's game. In the past, opposing teams were all but required to glue a defender to him for a full 90 minutes, as he would move well with the ball to direct the offense. Today, the Rapids' opponents seem content to give him 10 yards off the ball in the center of the field, only closing in once all of his passing options have marked.

These problems are compounded by the predictability of the Rapids' attack, the lack of a target striker with blazing speed and/or size, and the defensive immobility of Pibe.

This teams needs a spark, not a slug. There is no reason to routinely start Valderrama and keep him on the field for 90 minutes, especially not with the midfield options available to the Rapids.

Unfortunately it's not likely we're going to see any effective changes until 2003. In the meantime, it's the Valderrama Farewell Tour.

Lucky us.

[MAR10]

That's right. Lucky US! If we're gonna lose, I'd rather it be as part of the Valderrama farewell tour than just plainly losing. Valderrama could be league MVP again if he really wanted to, and if we had some players that could actually finish all the dishes he serves up.

[Alex Sanz]

... that pass to Carrieri looked pretty darn good to me ....

[Dennishz]

He might be very slow and at times slowing the team down but you can't deny his passing skills. Today's game against the Quakes was further proof of his passing

[gschroeder]

I would never argue that he isn't slow and that he is worthless as far as defense but I think he is one of the best players in the league at what he does. I don't know how many times I've seen him hold a ball with 2-3 defenders on him and then make a perfect pass out of nowhere. Yes, he has bad passes and does lose the ball sometimes and yes he freezes like a deer in headlights if he gets the ball in side the box but, when he does lose it, he almost always runs his ass off as best he can to get it back.

In all likelihood this is his last year and I personally was honored to have him on our team. It would be stupid to bench him now after all this time. So lets just enjoy his shining moments and hope we can find someone to fill his place when he's gone. I bet we'll miss him.

[Tejas]

Abstain.

[Northcal19]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but could one of you CV supporters explain to me why he is on the field at 85 minutes woth a 2-0 lead, ala yesterday. I mean if he is so important to our team, why not then rest a 41 year old midfielder when the opportunity arises?

[Dennishz]

El Pibe should be the first MLS foreigner inducted into the Hall of Fame.

[Jasonma]

Originally posted by gschroeder
In all likelihood this is his last year and I personally was honored to have him on our team. It would be stupid to bench him now after all this time. So lets just enjoy his shining moments and hope we can find someone to fill his place when he's gone. I bet we'll miss him.

According to the TV coverage yesterday, Carlos wants to play another year...

[Ingmar4Rapids]

Originally posted by Jasonma


According to the TV coverage yesterday, Carlos wants to play another year...

Wow. That changes things. I am guessing his continued employment with the Rapids would be linked to Hankinson's. If another coach came in, he could quietly not re-sign him. If Carlos has another year in contract, I guess the new guy could waive him. That would be less quiet but understandable given CV's age. It would both give the team a fresh start (again) and would free up some salary as well. If Hankinson is still here, I bet he would give CV another year. He seems to either absolutely believe in the guy or CV has some compromising pictures of him.

I like watching Carlos play because I enjoy his instant passing with great vision and his ability to hold the ball under attack like no one else in the league. I don't like watching him not run. There is no excuse for that and it drives everyone nuts. I also don't like the way Hankinson makes almost every forward possession necessarily go through him. There have been times when Beckerman or Palacios are in the game where every pass they make in possession goes to CV. That has to be by order of the coach. Then again, it seems that if CV doesn't get the ball a lot, he mentally drifts out of the game.

I was hoping that this was his last year because, with his obvious talents and liabilities, we weren't tearing up the league. Whether it was his fault or not, the team wasn't winning consistently with the attack going through him. Then again, the bizarre lapses in defense by the team could be part of the problem. I guess my biggest question is he dragging down the team or are the problems with the sometimes impotent attack and defensive breakdowns more in the coaching or the general mix of players?

[gschroeder]

Originally posted by Northcal19
I hate to beat a dead horse, but could one of you CV supporters explain to me why he is on the field at 85 minutes woth a 2-0 lead, ala yesterday. I mean if he is so important to our team, why not then rest a 41 year old midfielder when the opportunity arises?

Because he doesn't run enough to need a rest :)


Also, I think our team looked pretty pitiful before Carlos came compared to now. There have been some pretty sorry times since but we are alot better with him. But thats just my opinion.

[spot]

I like Carlos great game on Sunday. Unfortunately games like Saturday have been the exception not the norm. Otherwise this thread wouldn't exist.

My problem is with Hankinson's decisions to leave Carlos in games where the opposing team has successfully neutralized him or he's just plain stinking it up. As good as the Raps looked against SJ, we looked equally bad against LA.

[Worm Burner]

Originally posted by gschroeder

Also, I think our team looked pretty pitiful before Carlos came compared to now. There have been some pretty sorry times since but we are alot better with him. But thats just my opinion.

I think you have to attribute a lot of our improvement to Henderson & Chung.

[greenie]

Let's be honest here -- Pibe did play some nice balls on Saturday, but it's not like they weren't the kind of balls you see other starting center mids making in this league. Watching the tape of the game, I was a lot more impressed with the passes coming from Pablo's feet.

Where Pibe's magic touch was needed, and was lacking, was on all those balls played into space and towards the corner, that Hendo couldn't catch up to. Sure, the grass is shorter and faster, but you'd think he learn from the first mistake. Instead, he played the same ball four times, all with the game result.

With 40 yards of field space, anyone can look to play the ball into the gap, and when you have engines like Henderson and Carrieri (and young, fresh legs in Trembly) it's a good chance that they'll catch up to the ball.

Hankinson himself has long since admitted that what he expects Carlos to bring to the team is superb posession just outside of the box, and the ability to make that once incisive through ball into a cutting player making the run. When have we last seen this?

For all the successful passes he made on Saturday his giveaways were quite numerous, and oftentimes he reverted to his usual "blame a teammate" routine for the ball that went straight to the Quakes.

Finally, I'm with Norcal in that I'd have a lot less of a problem with him if he'd sub off, especially holding a lead at 70 minutes. With only a 2-0 lead against the best offense in the league, the guy was strolling back from attacks; it didn't even look like he was walking fast. On a number of occasions he would be the ONLY player left in the Quakes' half of the field -- and that includes all of the San Jose defenders, too.

The one positive I'll give him this game is that he did at crack a good shot towards the goal, one that was unfortunate enough to hit the crossbar.

[Ingmar4Rapids]

Originally posted by greenie
Let's be honest here -- Pibe did play some nice balls on Saturday, but it's not like they weren't the kind of balls you see other starting center mids making in this league. Watching the tape of the game, I was a lot more impressed with the passes coming from Pablo's feet.

Where Pibe's magic touch was needed, and was lacking, was on all those balls played into space and towards the corner, that Hendo couldn't catch up to. Sure, the grass is shorter and faster, but you'd think he learn from the first mistake. Instead, he played the same ball four times, all with the game result.



While I'm not sure that the league is full of guys that can make CV's quick, accurate outlet passes, I agree that he sent the ball over the end line a lot. It was very unproductive to see Henderson and Carrieri hauling *ss down there on a hot afternoon and not get that ball. It was a waste of a lot of energy.

I thought he had a lot of good balls and possession, though. But to agree further, I notice this is always near the midfield stripe. He is much less effective around the box. Maybe because he won't run down their unless the play has been developing for a while.

But does Carlos come back next year if he wants to play? Everyone agrees that he will play 90 minutes a game for the rest of the season, like it or not. Do the Rapids make a change despite CV's wishes? To me, that is the big question.

[Worm Burner]

Originally posted by greenie
The one positive I'll give him this game is that he did at crack a good shot towards the goal, one that was unfortunate enough to hit the crossbar.

It was a great shot with a lot of pace. Why can't he do this more? It would force the teams to play tighter defense on him instead of just looking to shut down the passing lanes.

[FlashMan]

Actually, if you watch him play, he plays a lot more defense than most people give him credit for.

I thought he came out with a vengeance Saturday, to make up for the previous Saturday's miserable performance.

[Northcal19]

Originally posted by FlashMan
Actually, if you watch him play, he plays a lot more defense than most people give him credit for.


I've watched him play a lot. I don't think your right. He gets the credit he deserves, both on the attack and on defence, or lack of.

[greenie]

Originally posted by Ingmar4Rapids While I'm not sure that the league is full of guys that can make CV's quick, accurate outlet passes,
When you're talking about receiving the ball without a defender on your back, turning and sending it into 40 yards of space, yes, the league is full of those players.

Every week we see at least 2-3 goals scored on these exact type of plays, quite often from players other than Valderrama. This week, witness Williams' long ball to Faria (then to Mathis for the game winner) and Barret's quick outlet to Graziani up Dallas' right side.

Then check out Jason Kreis' brilliant through ball from just outside the D to a streaking Bobby Rhine, and you'll see the kind of plays that Valderrama is legendary for -- but isn't producing for the Rapids.