FSC and Arsenal's Eduardo

[Auriaprottu]

Just saw FSC's recap of the Arsenal FA Cup match against Cardiff City. During the commentary about the goal he scored, one of the guys at the desk (I don't know their names, sorry) referred to him as "the Brazilian". Not snarky or anything, just as part of the talk. I recall some of the British press referring to him the same way after England was ousted from Euro 2008 qualifying. No, I have no link.

At first I thought that perhaps the "Brazilian" references that followed the Euro qualifying were a bit of wound licking from the England loss, but perhaps this is more widespread- the guys at FSC have no reason not to acknowledge Eduardo's citizenship (dude moved to Croatia at 15 and became a citizen in 2002). AFAIK, he has never worn the Brasil shirt in any age group.

I'm wondering whether these references are applied evenhandedly. Serious question: has anyone in the mainstream football media referred to, say Giuseppe Rossi as American while discussing his performance in an Italy match or Owen Hargreaves as Canadian while discussing an England match? Or even a club match?

[PhiloBarca]

I'm wondering whether these references are applied evenhandedly. Serious question: has anyone in the mainstream football media referred to, say Giuseppe Rossi as American while discussing his performance in an Italy match or Owen Hargreaves as Canadian while discussing an England match? Or even a club match?

I heard Marcos Senna referred to as "Brazilian" or "Brazilian-born" throughout the Euro. Ray Hudson (not sure if he qualifies as "mainstream") also refers to Rossi as "the Jersey boy" during Villareal matches.

[Just Blaze]

He's Crozilian. Full title: Crozilian Automatronic Goalbot.

[DeadAirSpace]

I think Eduardo (and Senna) are referred to as Brazilians because..well they are. They simply decided to represent a different country. Eduardo couldn't get into the Brazil team ,so he picked croatia.

Yes the English look down on this behaviour, but rightly so in my view. International football should be about representing your country; it should not be about players picking which country to play for. Look at the oil rich middle eastern states which try to naturalise Brazilians. Is that fair? No, it risks making international football like the club game.

As an England supporter I wouldn't want any non-English player in the team. And yes, that included Hargreaves. He's a good player, and I realise it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot, but the international game must remain pure - it should not be about players 'signing' for different nations.

[Auriaprottu]

I heard Marcos Senna referred to as "Brazilian" or "Brazilian-born" throughout the Euro. Ray Hudson (not sure if he qualifies as "mainstream") also refers to Rossi as "the Jersey boy" during Villareal matches.

Thanks. I hadn't been paying attention. The English post-ECQ (perhaps pre as well, given your post) I remember because that recap was shown about three times on FSC while I was in front of the TV. Wasn't sure if it was common or not.

He's Crozilian. Full title: Crozilian Automatronic Goalbot.

LOL!

[BocaFan]

I think Eduardo (and Senna) are referred to as Brazilians because..well they are. They simply decided to represent a different country. Eduardo couldn't get into the Brazil team ,so he picked croatia.

Yes the English look down on this behaviour, but rightly so in my view. International football should be about representing your country; it should not be about players picking which country to play for. Look at the oil rich middle eastern states which try to naturalise Brazilians. Is that fair? No, it risks making international football like the club game.

As an England supporter I wouldn't want any non-English player in the team. And yes, that included Hargreaves. He's a good player, and I realise it's akin to shooting oneself in the foot, but the international game must remain pure - it should not be about players 'signing' for different nations.

Agreed! Call me cynical but I think FIFA intentionally make these lax rules to balance-out the playing field in international competitions, which means more money to line FIFA’s pockets.

[DeadAirSpace]

NapoliSupporter


That wouldn't surprise me. The real problem is that the trend for naturalising players just keeps some countries down; look at Canada, they could be building a decent side with Hargreaves and Jonathan de Guzman, but these guys chose to represent other countries. Of course, England and Holland are bettter than Canada, but I don't see how somewhere like Canada will ever be a footballing force if the best players pick the easy option and 'sign' for another nation. It's the same in a lot of African countries, where the players choose to be French.

FIFA are either too lazy and incompetent to deal with it, or like you say, they want Qatar, Japan etc to take on Brazilians.

[Auriaprottu]

I heard Marcos Senna referred to as "Brazilian" or "Brazilian-born" throughout the Euro. Ray Hudson (not sure if he qualifies as "mainstream") also refers to Rossi as "the Jersey boy" during Villareal matches.

Something just occurred to me- Deco (and, I believe, Senna) was in a situation similar to that of David Regis, Thomas Dooley and Emmanuel Olisadebe- adult players not good enough (or just not getting called up for some reason) to play for the nation of their birth, and took another option. I do think there's something wrong with that. I don't know if Hargreaves spent his teenage years in Canada or England, so I cannot comment there.

I could be wrong about Eduardo's desire to play for Croatia as well. To the posters in general: help me out here. I'd appreciate any link that would prove beyond a doubt that Eduardo's entire nuclear family left Brasil and traveled across an ocean because he wasn't being called up... at age 15. Rep to the first poster who can provide it. That would clear everything up.

It could very well be that FIFA needs to change its laws and allow players to play only for the nation they were born in, no matter whether they left as a toddler/teen with family or as a cynical adult seeking a back door to World Cup play.

[DeadAirSpace]

Yeah Eduardo left Brasil for Croatia when he was 15/16. He had no connection to the country besides living and playing football there. If he had croatia roots, or family, I could understand why it might be considered ok for him to play for Croatia, but he doesn't have that. He knew he could be a regular player for Croatia, and that realistically, he might never play for Brazil. Thats what I don't like - he made a choice, and international football should not be about players choosing where to play.

Hargreaves plays for England cos his family (parents, I think) were English, and he was born and grew up in Canada. He then moved to Germany. He is not English to me; yes his parents are, and I don't really care whether or not he has a UK passport - he was born and raised Canadian, so he should represent them. Would he have chosen England if Canada were the better team? No, the truth is he wanted to play for a better side, and didn't want to 'slum' it with the Canadians where he would have next to zero chance of ever playing at a world cup.

Sorry if this comes off as angry,I just feel strongly about international football. In 20 years every country on earth will have a few Brazilians in the team, and no one will think anything of it. We have to act now.

[BocaFan]

I don't know if Hargreaves spent his teenage years in Canada or England, so I cannot comment there.


He never lived in England until he signed for Man United, which was well after he started playing for England. If I was FIFA I'd be embarrassed. :o

[Auriaprottu]

Yeah Eduardo left Brasil for Croatia when he was 15/16. He had no connection to the country besides living and playing football there. If he had croatia roots, or family, I could understand why it might be considered ok for him to play for Croatia, but he doesn't have that. He knew he could be a regular player for Croatia, and that realistically, he might never play for Brazil. Thats what I don't like - he made a choice, and international football should not be about players choosing where to play.

Hargreaves plays for England cos his family (parents, I think) were English, and he was born and grew up in Canada. He then moved to Germany. He is not English to me; yes his parents are, and I don't really care whether or not he has a UK passport - he was born and raised Canadian, so he should represent them. Would he have chosen England if Canada were the better team? No, the truth is he wanted to play for a better side, and didn't want to 'slum' it with the Canadians where he would have next to zero chance of ever playing at a world cup.

In the process of making an emotion-based reply to my post, you've contradicted yourself to some degree. Hargreaves has the roots and family, but you feel he should represent Canada. OTOH, you've stated that it would be okay with you for Eduardo to play for Croatia if he had essentially the same situation as Hargreaves. This is exactly the sort of "feel-good" cherrypicking that I'm trying to avoid in this thread. Let's deal with things as men (as opposed to women/children), without allowing our feelings to cause us to see identical situations differently.

What links (well, good ones, anyhow) do, DeadAirSpace, is remove the a lot of the spectre of opinion and heart-based action from these discussions, replacing those with hard facts. They keep us above the fray that can sometimes cloud our thinking.

Do you have one?

[Auriaprottu]

He never lived in England until he signed for Man United, which was well after he started playing for England. If I was FIFA I'd be embarrassed. :o

It's not FIFA's embarassment- it's England's, if anyone's. A nation with the history they have should be able to find a system that doesn't require adults coming in from somewhere else and playing for them.

[DeadAirSpace]

No I didnt contradict myself, you are mistaken. I didn't say Eduardo would be justified to play for Croatia if he had the roots, I said I could understand why it might be considered ok - not by me, but others might understand.

And no, its FIFAs problem for allowing it to be possible for Hargreaves to play for England. If the English FA could make Kaka available for selection they would probably jump at the chance. Don't blame them for exploiting the ridiculous situation; FIFA are the regulatory body and they are sitting by letting it happen. FIFA are the ones who should say, No Hargreaves has no English link, he shouldn't play. Same for Deco, and Eduardo.


And do I have what? You missed something out there, cos it doesn't make sense at the end of your post....

[Teso Dos Bichos]

...he was born and raised Canadian

By all accounts he was raised by his parents in an English setting, thus the connection and his desire to play for England, to eventually move there to play his club football and to be with the rest of his family who did not emigrate. He quite clearly has an English link.

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WTF? Are you some kind of weirdo?

No I didnt contradict myself, you are mistaken. I didn't say Eduardo would be justified to play for Croatia if he had the roots, I said I could understand why it might be considered ok - not by me, but others might understand.

Fair enough, but the fact is that plenty of others already understand as it is, in the case of Eduardo as well as Hargreaves. To whom would you have been referring? Those others who would oppose Eduardo's current situation but would be okay if he had a cousin or parent from there?

And no, its FIFAs problem for allowing it to be possible for Hargreaves to play for England. If the English FA could make Kaka available for selection they would probably jump at the chance. Don't blame them for exploiting the ridiculous situation; FIFA are the regulatory body and they are sitting by letting it happen. FIFA are the ones who should say, No Hargreaves has no English link, he shouldn't play. Same for Deco, and Eduardo.

The rule is FIFA's responsibility/problem, but any embarassment that stems from taking advantage of said rule falls squarely on the shoulders of the member nation that does so. FIFA is not just an office in Zurich, as it seems so many people want to believe- it is all the nations which comprise it, much like a government of the people. There are around 200 FIFA nations- should they all feel embarrassment because one or seven of them chose to naturalize a Nigerian, a Frenchman, a German, a Pole, a Turk, a Brazilian or a Canadian? Of course not.

I was responding to NapoliSupporter's post which stated that FIFA should be embarrassed. I disagree. Your nation and mine are FIFA. Brasil is FIFA. Argentina is FIFA. Finland is FIFA. Ghana is FIFA. Monserrat is FIFA. Only those nations who are currently capping players who took new citizenship as adults should be embarrassed.

And do I have what? You missed something out there, cos it doesn't make sense at the end of your post....

A link.

[BocaFan]

By all accounts he was raised by his parents in an English setting, thus the connection and his desire to play for England, to eventually move there to play his club football and to be with the rest of his family who did not emigrate. He quite clearly has an English link.

May I remind you that his mother is actually Welsh. I don't know what you mean when you say he grew up in an "English setting" or what relevance that has. Was he fed a lot of crumpets as a child while growing up in Canada?

He moved to England for money reasons. His desire to play and live in England so he could be close to his father's side of the family couldn't have been that great since he moved to Germany to play at Bayern for 7 years after leaving Canada.

He has an English link but its a weak one and its a joke to see him in an England jersey IMO.

[NYfan]

I think one of the arguments to allow players to pick a country to play in is that people should be able to choose their own place of residence and nationality once they are of sufficient age. If they go to a country that accepts them, then they should be granted citizenship and all rights and privileges that come with it. I'm all for residency requirements, but I think that players shouldn't be only allowed to play in the country where they were born.

There was a US Women's Basketball player this year who played for the Russian Olympic team. She always wanted to be an olympian, but never was quite good enough for the USA team. For the Beijing olympics, she agreed to play for Russia without ever having played in a club there and having no ethnic ties to Russia. That is obviously an extreme example that few people would support. I'm not opposed to the Senna or Deco situation. Maybe an alternative FIFA could explore is having a maximum number of naturalized players on the international roster at any one time.

By all accounts he was raised by his parents in an English setting, thus the connection and his desire to play for England, to eventually move there to play his club football and to be with the rest of his family who did not emigrate. He quite clearly has an English link.

What does it mean to be raised in "an English setting"? Tea time every day and BBC always on the tele?

[Auriaprottu]

May I remind you that his mother is actually Welsh.

Huh- I didn't know that. Well, is his father English?

[Seven30witwork]

some of yall are too uptight. if you have become a citizen of a country different than your birth country, you should have the opportunity to represent the new country no questions asked... its a global world, people immigrate and relocate all the time... why should footballers be excluded?...

[BocaFan]

Huh- I didn't know that. Well, is his father English?

Yeah, his father was English. I think he even played professionally in England.

some of yall are too uptight. if you have become a citizen of a country different than your birth country, you should have the opportunity to represent the new country no questions asked... its a global world, people immigrate and relocate all the time... why should footballers be excluded?...

So Messi playing for Spain would be okay with you then?

We're not saying they shouldn't be allowed to migrate to other countries. But the whole point and the magic of national team football will be lost if rich/successful teams can just sign foreign players to improve their squad like what happens in club football.