US Central Midfield -- Updated Evaluations and Projections

[Mr Martin]

I wanted to restart the discussion of the US Central Midfield in light of the recent US-Mexico match. We have had many threads on this topic over the years, including these three interesting ones in the last half year:

1) A thread from August/September 2008, started by Maximum Optimal (“The Central Midfield Rotation”). It discussed the central midfield, focused on a debate over Bradley vs. Mastro vs. Clark vs Edu. It’s interesting that a mere 5-6 months ago, Kljestan was basically ignored or dismissed and Torres wasn’t even on the radar.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=758360


2) A thread started by Nutmeg (“A Breakdown of...”) based on his “TIPA” ratings concept. I don’t want to revive that thread, since it devolved into an argument rather than a discussion, but I’d enjoy seeing Nutmeg evaluate Bradley and Kljestan using TIPA based on the Mexico match.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=919088


3) A thread started by Maximum Optimal (“Laying Down a Marker...”) charting the number and quality of touches by central mids in several key US matches over the years. The primary comparison is the Reyna era vs today.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=924704


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It seems pretty obvious right now that:

* The Bradley+Kljestan pairing is the primary one. It was featured at the Olympics, in the home wins over Trinidad and Cuba, and then again last week in the win over Mexico. These were the last 3 MEANINGFUL matches played by the Senior US team. It is based on two 2-way CM’s who are active, mobile, reasonably skilled, and can both attack and defend. They cover for each other as needed when one joins the attack.

* Torres has appeared (virtually out of the blue) to become a serious contender at CM. Like Bradley and Kljestan, he seems capable of playing the 2-way role, based on reports from his club matches. He is active, mobile and skilled, with good touch and vision. He seems to be the logical 3d CM to compliment the two primary ones. BB has reportedly attended some of his club matches, and calling him in for the Mexico match was a big sign of support.

* If BB chooses to take only 4 CM’s to the World Cup, then only one spot remains. A tough, physical DM would make sense, and the US has 3 logical options here – veteran Mastro (34 at the Cup), Clark (28 at the Cup), and Edu (24 at the Cup). Mastro will remain a key role player until the last moment, helping provide a veteran presence, but his age in 2010 cannot be ignored. I think Edu has the advantage IF he becomes a regular player for Rangers. BB seemed to favor him for a run of games in 2008 and he has a good combination of physical and technical qualities. But if he rides the bench the next 12 months, he’ll drop out of the picture if BB takes only 4 CM’s. I think Clark is a long shot, as he doesn’t offer anything better than either Mastro or Edu can provide.

* Szetela and Feilhaber are very long shots. Szetela is at least playing somewhat regularly, and BB has given him a few looks in the fall. He is also another 2-way CM, which suits the BB pattern. But I suspect that his time will come in the next cycle, after he has established himself more. Feilhaber has probably blown it, unless he has a stunning jump in club form. He isn’t a DM and he may not have the work-rate to play the 2-way role BB appears to favor. The improving offensive skills of Bradley, Kljestan, and Torres have reduced Feilhaber’s specialty niche and pushed him too far down the depth chart.

Summary: I think BB is aiming at a 4-some of Bradley, Kljestan, Torres, and Edu. If Edu struggles, he’ll plug in either Mastro or Clark, depending on form and fitness in the spring of 2010. If BB decides on 5 CM’s, then one of Clark or Mastro has a better shot. Szetela is a long shot and Feilhaber is a very, very long shot and probably needs several rivals to get injured to open the door.

[irust]

Hmmm, you forgot to mention Holden...I know he plays in MLS, but I think he is just as good as Kljestan with much fewer stupid give-aways. Plus, with De-Ro gone, he'll become an essential aspect for the Dynamo midfield

[Barcasox]

Hmmm, you forgot to mention Holden...I know he plays in MLS, but I think he is just as good as Kljestan with much fewer stupid give-aways. Plus, with De-Ro gone, he'll become an essential aspect for the Dynamo midfield

Honestly, I think Kljestan is becoming less and less important. Yes, he first choice right now, but when Edu starts playing, Torres develops, and Holden performs in MLS, he will need to up his game on both sides to retain that spot.

[Clint Eastwood]

Players like Holden, Szetela, and Feilhaber have a lot of work to do if they want to get to WC10. How many central midfielders do we think Bob is going to take? The top six appear to be Mastroeni, Bradley, Clark, Kljestan, Torres, and Edu.

It's great having a position where there's this much competition. And other than Mastroeni, all of these guys are going to be around for a long, long time. We're not even bringing guys like Arguez or McCarty into this discussion yet, and post WC10 they could factors.

The mystery player to a lot of people is Szetela. He's playing for Brescia, but nobody actually gets to see him play. I have no idea how he's progressing there. He's looked like a useful player in the USMNT games he has gotten into (and in youth tournaments of course, which to me isn't much of a barometer)

[Karl K]

Barring a huge decline in form and enormous upsurge in playing time/form of others, Sascha's going to South Africa.

Unless Edu gets on pace to average 25 starts in all European competitions, his chances of going will shrink. Torres will go instead.

Holden is an interesting candidate in that he can play outside or centrally. I think Bradley really wanted Rogers, though, to be his versatile mid in that he could play either outside position, but he will likely be too inconsistent.

Odds of Feilhaber going? Under 10%. Szetela's odds are better, as Clint points out, but we really have to see how much of an impact he is having in Italy.

[Clint Eastwood]

We've also got some very good MLS-level talent out there, making the depth at the position even greater. Kyle Beckerman, Clyde Simms, Brian Carroll, etc. are all good players. Ten years ago I think they'd be in the mix for important roles on the USMNT (unless you think Richie Williams was better. I don't). They're far, far down the list now. Even a guy like Jeff Lawrentowicz is a good player, as he's improved dramatically over the last two seasons.

[Barcasox]

We've also got some very good MLS-level talent out there, making the depth at the position even greater. Kyle Beckerman, Clyde Simms, Brian Carroll, etc. are all good players. Ten years ago I think they'd be in the mix for important roles on the USMNT (unless you think Richie Williams was better. I don't). They're far, far down the list now. Even a guy like Jeff Lawrentowicz is a good player, as he's improved dramatically over the last two seasons.

if we're going for MLS payers with versatility, Jack Jewsberry has to be top of that list. He can play basically anywhere, and he'll be at a good age too in 2010 (around 28)

[Matrim55]

Folks still don't understand what sets Kljestan apart, so let me state it clearly: It's his ability to play the ball quickly. Sacha (and MB, obviously) thinks the game faster than any other central mid in the mix, which is why he's become a starter - and why Clark has had such a limited role with the team in spite of his obvious attributes and club success.

The pace at which we knock the ball around the midfield with the Bradley/Kljestan pairing is absolutely shocking, and has brought a new dimension to what the team is capable of. Five years ago our options for playing out of the back were limited to either 1) get it to Claudio, let him navigate a couple of challenges, then cycle the ball to the wings, or 2) lump it over the top. We almost never played combinations out of trouble for the simple reason that we were incable of doing so against a good side.

Now compare that to our match against Mexico, or last summer's olympics. We have midfielders that play the ball into space for each other so quickly that we're no longer one-dimensional. It's amazing, and gratifying, to see a US team play that way.

And for the record, I think Torres will fit nicely into that type of style.

[KALM]

The one thing keeping Feilhaber and Szetela in consideration for a roster spot is that Bob Bradley has played both of them on the right before, and we're still struggling to find a backup for Dempsey there.

Personally I don't think either one looked very good at the postion (Szetela created a goal from the position against Switzerland, but disappeared from the match entirely against Nigeria at the Olympics in his one start there), but maybe Bob thinks differently.

[Clint Eastwood]

Folks still don't understand what sets Kljestan apart, so let me state it clearly: It's his ability to play the ball quickly. Sacha (and MB, obviously) thinks the game faster than any other central mid in the mix, which is why he's become a starter - and why Clark has had such a limited role with the team in spite of his obvious attributes and club success.

The pace at which we knock the ball around the midfield with the Bradley/Kljestan pairing is absolutely shocking, and has brought a new dimension to what the team is capable of. Five years ago our options for playing out of the back were limited to either 1) get it to Claudio, let him navigate a couple of challenges, then cycle the ball to the wings, or 2) lump it over the top. We almost never played combinations out of trouble for the simple reason that we were incable of doing so against a good side.

Now compare that to our match against Mexico, or last summer's olympics. We have midfielders that play the ball into space for each other so quickly that we're no longer one-dimensional. It's amazing, and gratifying, to see a US team play that way.

And for the record, I think Torres will fit nicely into that type of style.


Yeah, I'm thinking Sacha's development has virtually knocked Feilhaber out completely (if his injuries/lack of playing time didn't already).

For me personally, I want Bradley, Edu, Mastroeni, and Kljestan for sure on the WC10 sqaud. Each of them brings something different, and provide Bob with options as the games dictate. I'm guessing we'll take one more CM. Right now I think it's a fight between Torres and Clark. I know enough about Clark, but haven't seen enough of Torres to know how that's going to end. Szetela offers something completely different, as I personally liked what I saw of him on the right side of midfield (where we're not exactly deep). This isn't including guys like Donovan, Adu, Dempsey, etc. who can play in the middle also but are better elsewhere. The guy I wonder about is Adu. He's not really a forward or CM in Bob's system, so I guess he's competing with guys like Robbie Rogers for a LM position.

But hell, a lot can change between now and WC10.

[Matrim55]

Yeah, I'm thinking Sacha's development has virtually knocked Feilhaber out completely (if his injuries/lack of playing time didn't already).
We're certainly playing better with Sacha than we ever did with Benny, in large part because Sacha is right up there with Bradley, Beasley and Donovan in terms of playing quickly. Benny has a better individual skillset, but as of last year (last time I - or anyone - saw him play) was too much of an individualist.

Of course, that skillset is valuable and unique in the US pool. If he ever gets the tactical part of the game down - and some playing time - he could very easily end up back in the picture. Not gonna hold my breath tho.

For me personally, I want Bradley, Edu, Mastroeni, and Kljestan for sure on the WC10 sqaud.
I love Pablo, but am wary of bringing guys on the wrong side of 30. Edu has physical and individual skills, but I'm not convinced that a) he's actually a d-mid, and b) he has the tactical mindset necessary to succeed internationally. In other words, he dawdles on the ball. From a d-mid, that's frightening especially given our lack of speed and skill in the back.

But hell, a lot can change between now and WC10.
+1

That said, from what I've seen Bradley, Kljestan and Torres are head-and-shoulders above the rest of the central midfield group. Even if we only take 4, I'd still bet a considerable sum that those three names are on the list.

And for all the US fans out there who haven't taken the time to watch Torres and Pachuca, please make room on your calendar. Kid's the closest thing to JOB we've had since, well, JOB. He's a brilliant passer, is comfortable on the ball, takes space quickly off the ball and has an exquisite first touch. He's not the athlete JOB was, but he's not too far off either. Believe me, Pachuca is must-see TV for any US fan these days.

[TrueCrew]

I think Bob could easily take 5 CM's.

Remember, Kljestan can play RM, and Torres can play LM. Though neither is their preferred position.

Also, with Holden in the mix, he can play wide as well.

How would 5 CM's break down:

1) Starting Pair: preferably both 2 way CM's = Bradley + Kljestan.

Bradley more of a destroyer who somehow has a knack for goal, but isn't fancy nor does he create much with the ball at his feet (for others = witness the 0 assists).

Kljestan more creative, less of a bruiser, though still capable defensively, and has some flair.

2) A True DM.

Candidates here are Mastroeni, Clark, and Edu, and the post above broke it down well.

3) A back-up two-way mid for Kljestan (or that spot).

Torres, Edu, Feilhaber, and Holden all seem to be in the running here.

4) Another utitlity midfielder:

Edu, Holden, and Torres all in the running.

The versatility of some of the backs (Hejduk, Spector, Bocanegra) may enable BB to go with 7 defenders. Especially considering Pablo and Edu can both play in the back at need.
Thus, another MF/F spot opens up.

I could easily see something like this in getting to 7 backs:
D: Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Pearce, Spector, Hejduk, Califf OR
D: Dolo, Gooch, Boca, Spector, Hejduk, Califf, Marshall/DeMerit

Then we get 8-9 in midfield:
M: Dempsey, Beasley, Bradley, Kljestan, Torres, Rogers (either side) = 6.
1 DM type: Choose Pablo/Clark/Edu
1 Two way/utility type: Choose Edu/Holden/Feilhaber +
1 Attacking midfielder/Forward creative type: Choose Adu/J. Johnson/Rolfe/White or another forward.

[PhillyQuakesFan]

I like Torres...but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't worried about his size. He's even smaller than guys like Donovan and Beasley, and doesn't have the blistering speed that those guys have (and plays a position where size is a hell of a lot more important than it is for a LM/AM/2nd striker). He's a very good player on the ball and I think he can be extremely effective against Latin teams, but I worry that the more physical European and African teams will run him over. Given that (due to how the seeding pools have worked out the last few WCs) we're unlikely to play a Latin team in the first round of the WC, this could work against Torres and in favor of a Clark or a Mastro as far as the tournament roster is concerned.

That said, that's something we can figure out later on. I would leave him out of the lineup for the two T&T games for this reason, but he can contribute against our other CONCACAF opponents. After the Hex, throw him out there in a couple friendlies against Euro/African teams and see how he responds.

[Swazicar]

Summary: I think BB is aiming at a 4-some of Bradley, Kljestan, Torres, and Edu. If Edu struggles, he’ll plug in either Mastro or Clark, depending on form and fitness in the spring of 2010. If BB decides on 5 CM’s, then one of Clark or Mastro has a better shot. Szetela is a long shot and Feilhaber is a very, very long shot and probably needs several rivals to get injured to open the door.

I was looking over the 2006 World Cup roster yesterday while thinking about this same topic; I came to the same basic conclusion you did. One possible bonus for both Edu's and Mastro's chances is that either could slot in as an emergency center back.

[Rainer24]

As others have mentioned, things can change a lot between now and summer of 2010, but Bradley and Kljestan seem the safest bets at this point.

Kljestan didn't have his greatest game against Mexico, but he wasn't terrible either, and I think a large part of it was him hanging back a bit more than we are used to because Bradley was obviously feeling it in that game and making quite a few charges up the pitch. Sacha hang back to keep things solid in the middle and did a pretty good job of intercepting a number of passes.

Holden is a good player, but I do not agree that he is as good as Kljestan, and I think he may be a bit of an outsider to make the team at this point, but he can play centrally and on the flank, so he offers a bit of versatility.

Edu hasn't played that much for Rangers, but reports out of Glasgow are generally very favorable and he seems to be getting closer and closer to making a real contribution for them. He might even be starting for them to start next season, so he is definitely going to be in the mix.

Torres is skilled and offers great passing from the position, but seems to offer less defensive bite than the guys already mentioned. His size will remain a concern for some, but he is a very young player, so it's hard to imagine him not being significantly better by next summer than he is already.

Mastroeni has been a good player for the USMNT, is still a solid player, but I don't see him making it to South Africa.

Ricardo Clark offers more of a shutdown mentality in the middle than any of the other guys who seem to really be in contention. He'll keep getting caps, but it wouldn't surprise me if he only makes the alternates list.

Feilhaber hasn't even fully recovered from his injury and started playing for his new club yet. No clue where he will be by next summer. I don't think we can count on him being around.

Szetela seems more of a player for 2014, but maybe he really takes off in the next year or so and works his way in there.

I don't think Adu is really a central midfielder at all, so he needs to find a spot elsewhere if he is going to make the team at all.

[Clint Eastwood]

I like Holden, but I just don't see it happening. The fact that he didn't get into the Sweden game tells me where he stands in the pecking order right now. He could easily have a great MLS season (with DeRo gone) and force himself into the mix.

[alocksley]

My gut tells me that, if given the chance, Torres will step up to claim the other central midfield spot alongside Bradley. He compliments Bradley's tenacious tackling and aggressive play with an ability to calmly play out of traffic and keep possession. Kljestan is too similar to Bradley and too prone to turnovers, as Bradley can be as well.

[deuteronomy]

I see Bradley as the only sure thing (going) in the bunch.
A lot could change between now and the summer of '10 for each of the others. We are lucky to have the additional tournaments this summer to get a good look at the candidates.

Sacha is almost there. He needs to find a level where everyone knows exactly what we have. He has a nice varied set of skills but he needs consistency, which is difficult to achieve for someone his age who has been mostly an MLS player.

Pablo has been a great warrior for the US. I agree that his age could be a factor. In terms of being a destoyer, he is the best the US has ever produced. He had a great game vs Argentina last summer. Very experienced and determined. Could be a situational starter. It will be interesting to see if he starts the next qualifier or Kljestan.

In my thinking, there is a gap between these two and the other candidates.

Torres is impressive with Pachuca, I would like to see more of him in the qualifiers to see how his game holds up. Great vision and very nice composure make him an interesting player. He is also capable of stepping up (he certainly has recently) and outdistancing everyone.

Ricardo Clark is probably the best athlete in the bunch. I have seen him play great for Houston, I was disappointed in the short time he played vs Mexico. He has to be counted upon to hit his passes to have a chance at consideration.

Maurice Edu is another superior athlete. After the Olympics, I thought he was really going to step up. He is in a challenging situation at Rangers, if he were to work into a starting situation, it would certainly help him. He has struggled most recently in his appearances with the USMNT.

Everyone else at this point probably would have to be considered a dark horse. Szetela could step up in Europe. Holden might play lights out this MLS season. Benny could make a miraculous recovery. Someone could emerge on the radar screen. It will be fun to watch.

[Mr Martin]

I left out Holden in my opening post, and perhaps that was a mistake. I'd rate him as a long shot at the level of Szetela and Feilhaber.

The thing that might jump his chances is his ability to play the wing midfield if needed. That kind of versatility is valuable on a tournament roster. Moreover, as someone else mentioned, the backup role behind Dempsey at RM is totally up in the air. The other thing that might push him into serious consideration is his move into a starting CM spot with his club this year, now that DeRo is gone. It gives him a platform for making a case for himself.

BB's rebuilding project in the central midfield has been his most important task during this cycle (besides the obvious need to qualify for the Cup). With Reyna and O'Brien done, Mastro aging, useful vets like Olsen and Zavagnin finished internationally, and Donovan and Dempsey thriving in other roles, The central midfield was gutted at the start of this cycle. Yet CM is arguably the most important role on any team.

It's obvious that BB likes the dual 2-way CM concept and the Bradley+Kljestan pairing defines the role at this point in time. Torres seems like the next best player for this role, and a 3-man rotation of Bradley/Kljestan/Torres is what I think we will see this spring. I could even see Torres beating out Kljestan for the main starting role, if he turns out to be a good as the early indications suggest -- he seems to be a tidier player on the ball than Kljestan. But I could really get to like those 3 as a rotation at CM.

None of the other options strikes me as filling the 2-way requirements, so the other CM's need to make a case for themselves as a niche player filling a specialist DM role or a versatile inside/outside mid role.

[Smithsoccer1721]

I think one of the issue that needs to be cleared up (although we cant) is what formation BB is going to be using in the WC.

The standard flat 4-4-2 would be a formation where you have/need 2 players who both can play both ways.

Diamond 4-4-2 is where you have a bradley with a player on top like Torres who is more creative but this wouldnt be as suitable with Sacha even though he could still play there.

4-5-1 and play with 2 center midfielders that are both more defensive minded with a more attacking midfielder on top of them

I am not saying any one is better than the other for this group we have now but the roles and expectations will be defined by the system BB is looking to play. I think this is likely to impact who goes and who stays home when the WC rolls around.