The race for Europe [R]

[Clan]

I haven't seen anything to the effect that last seasons awarding of places in the UEFA cup by the FA has been changed.Is this still the case?

If so, then 6th place in the league will not give a European spot this season - no disrespect to Bolton and Boro, but i don't see either finishing in 5th.

We still have 3 automatic slots for the UEFA cup awarded to the FA right?
Given out to the Fa Cup winner, the League Cup winner and the place directly below the last champions league qualifying position.

Has any of this changed since last season?

Will make the race a damned sight tighter now if not.

[Clan]

Where have all the anoracks gone?

[655321]

I don't even want to think too much about it right now. :)

[SouthLondonYank]

Originally posted by Clanblue
I haven't seen anything to the effect that last seasons awarding of places in the UEFA cup by the FA has been changed.Is this still the case?

If so, then 6th place in the league will not give a European spot this season - no disrespect to Bolton and Boro, but i don't see either finishing in 5th.

We still have 3 automatic slots for the UEFA cup awarded to the FA right?
Given out to the Fa Cup winner, the League Cup winner and the place directly below the last champions league qualifying position.

Has any of this changed since last season?

Will make the race a damned sight tighter now if not.

Your understanding is correct. However the sixth place premiership side I believe could still be awarded a UEFA cup spot if the FA cup final is contested by two teams occupying places 1 through 5 in the table or by one team in the top 5 and the League cup winner (which can't be Bolton because we are out, don't know about Boro)

[kevbrunton]

Here's a post on thefa.com -- but it is from last year. I can't find anything more current.

http://www.thefa.com/Features/ChampionsLeague/Postings/2003/02/38472.htm

There's a couple of small twists -- or rather the contingencies that haven't been stated above.

Top 4 go to Champions League. Then 5th place in EPL plus the FA Cup and Carling Cup winners go to the UEFA Cup.

If the FA Cup winner has already qualified for either the Champions League or UEFA by being in the top 5, then the FA Cup runnerup goes to UEFA. If the FA Cup runnerup has also already qualified, then 6th place in the EPL goes to UEFA.

If the Carling Cup winner has already qualified, then the runnerup does not go. Rather that spot reverts to the EPL, so the 6th or 7th place team would qualify for the UEFA Cup.

Having said that, the way things are shaping up, only the top 5 out of the EPL are going to qualify.

First off, with the final two in the Carling Cup being Bolton and Middlesbrough, neither of whom are likely to be in the top 5 in the league, one of them is going to qualify for the UEFA Cup -- therefore, 7th place in EPL is not going to have a spot.

Next, in the FA Cup, it is also starting to appear unlikely that BOTH finalists are going to be already in the top 5. Newcastle is already out and one of Arsenal or Chelsea will be eliminated this round. So it is appearing as if at least one of the teams outside the top 5 could survive -- which would eliminate the 6th place EPL team from getting a UEFA Cup spot.

[sendorange]

Originally posted by kevbrunton
Next, in the FA Cup, it is also starting to appear unlikely that BOTH finalists are going to be already in the top 5. Newcastle is already out and one of Arsenal or Chelsea will be eliminated this round. So it is appearing as if at least one of the teams outside the top 5 could survive -- which would eliminate the 6th place EPL team from getting a UEFA Cup spot.
It's still possible. Liverpool, ManYoo and one of Arse/Chels are still in it, will only need two of those three to contest the final.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by sendorange
It's still possible. Liverpool, ManYoo and one of Arse/Chels are still in it, will only need two of those three to contest the final.
Yes, it's possible. I didn't say it wasn't. I just said that it's STARTING to appear UNLIKELY.

Assuming that both Liverpool and ManU both win this weekend and that Liverpool stay in 4th or 5th, it would still take some luck to allow 2 of those 3 (including the winner of Arse/Chels) to make it to the finals. First off, they'd have to avoid being drawn against one another and second, they'd actually have to win.

[Clan]

Originally posted by SouthLondonYank
Your understanding is correct. However the sixth place premiership side I believe could still be awarded a UEFA cup spot if the FA cup final is contested by two teams occupying places 1 through 5 in the table or by one team in the top 5 and the League cup winner (which can't be Bolton because we are out, don't know about Boro)

Ah yes, it would seem i overlooked that little gem...strange that i would after we got into the UEFA that way a few years ago.

Seeing as we all know that the actual winner of the FA Cup will be decided at the library this coming Sunday ;), it will be interesting to see how the draw shaps up from here on out.

The actual draw may be of more importence than the game itself.....bollox really when you think about it and yet another reason i detest what the Champs league has done to our national cup.

[Clan]

...and we'll be seeing much more of this type of talk as the season winds down.
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=291487&cc=5901

[sendorange]

The FA were keen on giving a Champions League place to the winner of the FA Cup. I was just reading something more on this a few days ago.

That would be excellent and I really think it would make things more exciting and open. I can't imagine it becoming reality in the near future though, but then who knows.

[SouthLondonYank]

Originally posted by Clanblue
Ah yes, it would seem i overlooked that little gem...strange that i would after we got into the UEFA that way a few years ago.

Seeing as we all know that the actual winner of the FA Cup will be decided at the library this coming Sunday ;), it will be interesting to see how the draw shaps up from here on out.

The actual draw may be of more importence than the game itself.....bollox really when you think about it and yet another reason i detest what the Champs league has done to our national cup.

In the spirit of being a complete anorak - I think another UEFA cup spot would open up for English clubs should Liverpool or Newcastle actually win the cup this year (not sure on that)

[Texas Gooner]

Apart from Arsenal winning the FA cup, I would like to see Millwall win. That would be funny to see the 20 fans that can afford to travel from South London causing havoc across Europe.

[nicephoras]

Originally posted by SouthLondonYank
In the spirit of being a complete anorak - I think another UEFA cup spot would open up for English clubs should Liverpool or Newcastle actually win the cup this year (not sure on that)

Or if Arsenal or ManUtd win - the runner up goes into the UEFA cup, I believe.

[Clan]

Originally posted by nicephoras
Or if Arsenal or ManUtd win - the runner up goes into the UEFA cup, I believe.

I'm thinking he ment win the UEFA cup, as in, the holders get an auto spot in the next seasons tourney.

Can't answer that one for sure, and i can't be arsed to dig through the UEFA site to find out, but, the possibility that the next country below England in co-efficient ranking may get an auto spot entry insted of last qualifying round is probable also.

Surely some anorak with the patience will let us know though.

[nicephoras]

Originally posted by Clanblue
I'm thinking he ment win the UEFA cup, as in, the holders get an auto spot in the next seasons tourney.

D'oh! Should've paid more attention. But if Liverpool or Newcastle win the cup, I think they'd have to not qualify for the UEFA cup in order for us to get an extra entry.

[Clan]

Originally posted by nicephoras
D'oh! Should've paid more attention. But if Liverpool or Newcastle win the cup, I think they'd have to not qualify for the UEFA cup in order for us to get an extra entry.

We wont get an "extra" entry, no matter what.
UEFA gives out a specific amount of entries to a country based on co-efficient ranking.

There are quirky rules in there somewhere about it and how the next country below in co-efficient ranking can be "bumped up" in an unusual occurence.

[basso001]

Originally posted by Clanblue
There are quirky rules in there somewhere about it and how the next country below in co-efficient ranking can be "bumped up" in an unusual occurence.
You mean this?

If the defending cup holder already qualified directly for the group stage of the Champions League, the champion of the 10th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the group stage, the champion of the 16th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 3rd qualifying round, and the champions of the 27th and 28th country on the country ranking list will gain direct access to the 2nd qualifying round. Similar changes are made if the cup holder already qualified directly for one of the qualification rounds, or if the cup holder did not qualify directly but is from one of the top three ranked countries.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/uefa/index.html

b.

[Maczebus]

What happened?

I'm sure a few years back around half of the first division would get a Euro spot. Now it's down to the top 5?
I certainly remember 6th and 7th (if not more) being European berths.

[corina]

Why is there such a fuss to get into Uefa ? Majority of the english clubs dont participate fully citing domestic worries for crap performances, namely, Blackburn, Southampton, Fulham(intertoto) to name a few . Is it an excuse to keep the fans and critics happy until the tournament starts and give them a false sense of pride that they qualified for "Europe"? I am almost convinced thats the case unless someone comes up with a compelling reason for me to think otherwise.