Football will be accused of being "institutionally racist"

[Real Ray]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2004/02/03/sfnrac03.xml&sSheet=/sport/2004/02/03/ixfooty.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=32823

Football will be accused of being "institutionally racist" in a Government-backed report which will make uncomfortable reading for the Football Association and particularly the Premier League and Football League when it is published next week.

The report, compiled by the Independent Football Commission, a body of respected university people, following a year-long investigation into all parts of the game, recommends a radical and immediate restructuring of all three bodies to improve their racial mix. The IFC want the appointment - or "co-opting" - of people from ethnic minorities on to six FA committees with three more joining the FA Council by the end of the year.

The Premier League and Football League, who will be told to examine whether their personnel recruiting complies with equal opportunity practice, will be asked to appoint black or Asian board members this year and, like the FA, install more over the next three years. A similar timescale is set for altering the ethnic make-up among coaches, managers and club chief executives.

[Boro_lad]

the pc bastards can *#*#*#*# off for all i care, race has nothing to do with it, its all about who is best for the job......

why would a football club be racist and hire white coaches etc, then have players from many diverse ethnic backgrounds :/

[sendorange]

There's no doubt that the overwhelming majority of people in the positions of power in football right now tend to be white, which I don't think will remain the case, and certainly isn't a deliberate thing.

This report sounds a little over-the-top, clubs don't discriminate, everybody just wants the best person possible for the job, regardless of their ethnicity. Can't afford to compromise on quality when you're in such a competitive environment where promotion/relegation and european qualification can make such a huge difference.

The government should put forward more money to encourage ethnic minorities to get qualified and be encouraged to put themselves forward.

[sinner78]

report compiled by respected university people?
thats says it all.The PC brigade are trying to get a stranglehold on football...When they set out on this little "investigation" they were obviously gonna find racism even where isnt any.
no suprise that these 'stoodent gwant' types want racial quota's in football clubs.

[RichardL]

Originally posted by Boro_lad
the pc bastards can *#*#*#*# off for all i care, race has nothing to do with it, its all about who is best for the job......

why would a football club be racist and hire white coaches etc, then have players from many diverse ethnic backgrounds :/
...this in a sport where black players make up about 25% of all pros - over 12 times the proportion they represent in the country as a whole. How many black managers are there currently? How many apply to be managers? The lack of Asian footballers is rather odd, but only the one-agenda PC brigade would jump to the conclusion of racism as the reason why.

[superdave]

Originally posted by RichardL
...this in a sport where black players make up about 25% of all pros - over 12 times the proportion they represent in the country as a whole.
Unless that 25% represents the proportion of British footballers, this factoid is misleading.

[RichardL]

Originally posted by superdave
Unless that 25% represents the proportion of British footballers, this factoid is misleading.
it did a good few years ago when I heard it stated. What the % is now, I've no idea.
A straw poll of the Reading squad reveals 22 British players, of whom 7 are black and one is of Asian origin. We have an Asian coach too! Let's put the flags out.

[Clan]

Originally posted by RichardL
it did a good few years ago when I heard it stated. What the % is now, I've no idea.
A straw poll of the Reading squad reveals 22 British players, of whom 7 are black and one is of Asian origin. We have an Asian coach too! Let's put the flags out.

On any given day the entire back line of Chels could be black, 2 of the starting 4 in the middle and one of the strikers.

Not bad for a so called right wing club that almost had the fans fighting amoung ourselves when Cannoville made his home debut.

As for the article - load of balls.Best man should get the job, regardless of race.

Isn't keeping a few positions set aside for a certain group, no matter who, also a form of racism?

[Real Ray]

The Sir Norman Chester Centre for Football Research at the University of Leicester, has a collected a lot of data through its surveys on this subject.

6.5 It has been estimated that around 300 of the 2,000 football professionals in England and Wales are black. Racism has not been eradicated from the British game, of course, as evidenced by the continuing involvement in hooligan disturbances of right wing groups. However, most clubs now have black professionals, and in the wake of recent anti-racism campaigns, the problem of racism at British football stadia is, at last, being confronted. Black players now face the challenge of qualifying as managers and coaches in the game. Opposition here, in an institutionalised sense, still seems quite strong, with some established chairmen, managers and coaches questioning the coaching and managerial capabilities of black footballers (See Back et al, 2001, Ch. 6). Black players have now largely established themselves as players in England; but how long before they are routinely accepted on the management and coaching side? While the overt fan racism of the past may be less evident, some researchers claim that black players and coaches still have to accommodate to the norms of 'white' football cultures. In this sense, in the new football era: 'It seems that it is possible to talk about the absences of racism in football, but not about its presence…It is the implicit normative racism located in the everyday embodied practices of football's white core that policies the integration of black and foreign players' (Back et al, 2001).

6.6 Recent research (Bradbury, 2001) suggests that 10% of young players (14+) who are based in FA Premier League and Football League club youth Academies and Schools of Excellence are reported to be black. 1.6% of such players are reported to be of Asian origin. Most English clubs now have some younger black players, but 13 clubs do not. Most clubs in England still have no Asian youngsters on their books. The total estimated number of 71 young Asian players based at professional clubs in 2001, thirty of whom were concentrated at just six clubs, shows the continuing problem of recruiting young Asian footballers to professional football clubs in England.

6.7 According to estimates based on club replies, about 13% of all professional players at FA Premier League and Football League clubs during the 1999/2000 season were UK born black players Bradbury 2001). This may suggest a slight fall recently in the recruitment of players from black British backgrounds, though the data here, over time, are probably not always completely comparable and reliable. Szymanski (2000) suggests that the wages of successful black players in England are lower than those of white equivalents because, he contends, the market value of black footballers is lower - there is less competition from all clubs for their services. Minority ethnic workers are considerable under-represented in the administrative departments of professional football clubs. Only two minority ethnic employees, nationally, hold what one might describe as a senior administrative post at any of these 88 professional clubs.

[Parkhead_Faithful]

Originally posted by Clanblue

Isn't keeping a few positions set aside for a certain group, no matter who, also a form of racism?

Absoloutely, but the overly PC types dont see it like that, they see it as being all inclusive and helping "minorities"

[superdave]

Let me just lay out a few observations, from an American perspective.

1. Alot of dummies make the argument, 70% (or what have you) of NFL players are black, so why aren't there more black coaches? That's nonsense, because it implies that players and coaches come from the same pool. But alot of NFL coaches never played pro football, and in the relevant time, when today's coaches were of playing age, the NFL was "whiter" than today, anyway.

2. The real problem in baseball and, esp. pro football, is that black coaches don't get 2nd chances compared to white coaches. That's why black NFL coaches have a clearly, substantially better winning percentage and make the postseason more often. A mediocre, or even average, black coach doesn't get a second chance. Crap white coaches like Rich Kotite do.

3. It's changed, and it's changing, but it's still hard to get a fanbase to accept an unknown black coach. I don't know if that happens there, but you can't discount the possibility that the people doing the hiring either relate better to white managerial candidates, or take the not-directly-but-indirectly racist view that "anonymous X (who is white) will be better for supporter relations than anonymous Y (who is black." The white candidate is going to have more in common with the fans, socially, than the black candidate. The person doing the hiring isn't thinking directly in terms of race, but in terms of "softer" factors that are related to race.

[Real Ray]

Originally posted by superdave
It's changed, and it's changing, but it's still hard to get a fanbase to accept an unknown black coach. I don't know if that happens there, but you can't discount the possibility that the people doing the hiring either relate better to white managerial candidates, or take the not-directly-but-indirectly racist view that "anonymous X (who is white) will be better for supporter relations than anonymous Y (who is black." The white candidate is going to have more in common with the fans, socially, than the black candidate. The person doing the hiring isn't thinking directly in terms of race, but in terms of "softer" factors that are related to race.


In the top-flight I don't think you will get an "unknown." So perhaps it would be interesting to ask say Fulham fans, did they see Jean Tigana as "black" or a Frenchman? Or Newcastle supporters with Ruud Gullit-who as a player was famously (or infamously) greeted with ni@** chants as a player-did they see him as black or a Dutchman shopping "sexy football?"

The obvious thing with these two is their star pedigree which gave them a clear advantage, in addition to a "European" factor re: potential coaching IQ. There was this bit from an old piece on Tigana off the Fulham site What happens on the pitch is only 60 per cent of the game,” says Tigana.

"The rest is taking care of what you eat and drink, making sure you stretch, resting and so on." His credentials suggest he should know: as a player Tigana won the European Championship with France in 1984 and collected five French championship medals. Since then he has coached Monaco to the French title and taken Fulham to the top flight for the first time since 1968. For years, before the arrival of coaches like him, the British game was operating on the equivalent of Greenwich Mean Time - somewhat behind the continent. But catch-up is being played now.

It will be interesting what type of jobs Paul Ince gets a shot at, as he was recently quoted the 36-year-old is set to hang up his boots at the end of the season and move into management.

The former England international joined the Nerazzuri from Manchester United before returning to the Premiership with Liverpool two-years later.

"I see myself as a manager. Being in charge at Inter would be my dream job," he said.

"I'm not kidding. I speak the language and though I know I'm going to have to serve my time first, finishing up as boss of Inter would be the one for me. One of my few regrets is leaving Milan."

He added: "I'd like to think that if I managed abroad I could drum a bit of English mentality into players.

"It's a dream but then dreams do sometimes come true.

[Boro_lad]

personally im not racist,i ahve black and asian and a palistinian friend, but what i dont lie to see is positive discrimination, that a black person is given a job for the sole reason because he is black, even tohuh he may have equal qualifications as a white man the employers are convioncedinto hiring the black an just because they dont want to be seen as racist.

its just crazy, and i dont like it. again im not rcist but the pc brigade is just *#*#*#*#ing annoying. and thy need to be slapped around bit the soft bastards........

[Boro_lad]

and in football, its skill first before anything, i dont see managers going, oh i wont sign thiery henry, he is blak... no they go oooo henry, hes an awesome player sign ihm on.........


football is the least racist profession that i have known, maybe in eastern europe there are problems, but deffinatly not in the english game.

[Albion + England]

This country is effin bol!ocks. I have a black girlfriend, most of my friends are black but the amount of reverse racism that goes on in this country is unreal and my friends agree. People - nearly always white middle class people - go out of their way to take political correctness to the next level.
We can't celebrate St Georges Day for fear of being called racist but in Birmingham, the most multicultural city in the UK, the Irish have their St Patricks Day parade, the Chinese have the New Year Celebrations, the Sikhs, Hindus and Muslims all have their own celebrations be it Diwali or Eid, whatever. Nothing wrong with that so why can't St Georges Day be celebrated?
We have the MOBO awards but surely when people begin to segregate music and call it 'Black music' etc, then eventually it filters through to society and people begin to feel a divide between cultures.
English white people in this country are becoming more and more alienated with the powers that be.
At Christmas, one business refused to allow cards to be sent in case they offended any Muslim workers!
A prison warden was sacked for telling a joke about Osama Bin Laden - the guy who sacked him feared it was insult to Muslims. Surely that clown should have realised presuming all Muslims are in support of Bin Laden is racist then?
This fuccin country has lost the plot. Why are we bowing to all the other cultures that enter this country and forgetting our own? I'm English and proud but i'm no friggin racist.

[Boro_lad]

you dont even get christmas in birmingham ...

[Mobile]

Originally posted by Real Ray
The Sir Norman Chester Centre for Football Research at the University of Leicester, has a collected a lot of data through its surveys on this subject.

1.6% of such players are reported to be of Asian origin. Most English clubs now have some younger black players, but 13 clubs do not. Most clubs in England still have no Asian youngsters on their books. The total estimated number of 71 young Asian players based at professional clubs in 2001, thirty of whom were concentrated at just six clubs, shows the continuing problem of recruiting young Asian footballers to professional football clubs in England.


As a side note, 'Asian' here refers to players from the Indian sub-continent.

I don't know why so few young Asians are making it onto the books of football clubs. There were kids at my school who were easily among the best there but none have made it in the top flight of English football. It's odd, especially as we have such a large Asian population.

[Boro_lad]

if the player is good enough they will get signed fullstop i find it completely unbelievable to think a club wouldnt sign a player because of thier ethenic background especially concidering the the diversity of todays football...

[Mobile]

Originally posted by Boro_lad
if the player is good enough they will get signed fullstop i find it completely unbelievable to think a club wouldnt sign a player because of thier ethenic background especially concidering the the diversity of todays football...

Yeah sorry I wasn't suggesting that racism was the reason why there are so few Asian players. It just seems puzzling.

[Boro_lad]

maybe its because football isnt a big game in the indian subcontinent maybe, i dont know.