Understanding Howard's yellow card {R}

[um_chili]

I still don't understand why Tim Howard got a yellow card last night. I know it was for time-wasting, but what was it that led to ref to believe Tim had wasted too much time? There seem to be two theories.

#1 He was carded for throwing the ball away toward the corner shortly after the collision with Marquez.

#2 He was carded for taking a second run-up toward the ball on the ensuing free kick.

Both of these seem incredibly bogus to me.

#1 seems bogus because it didn't actually result in any time being wasted. Tim threw the ball away while the Mexicans were still jawing at the ref over the card. In replays, you can actually see that the ball was returned to the penalty area for the free kick after Tim threw it away, but while the arguments with the ref are still ongoing. Moreover, after the second goal, the Mex goalie (Sanchez?) picked the ball out of the net and threw it toward the corner in just the same way--yet no card.

#2 seems bogus because it is incredibly trivial. Taking a first, then a second run-up at the ball costs about three seconds, so it hardly wastes any time at all. There are also any number of legitimate explanations for this, most evidently that Tim had just taken a boot to the knee and may not have been solid on his legs yet. And while I don't have any videos of goalkeeper FKs to study for comparison, I'm dead certain that I've seen goalkeepers take second run-ups to FKs without being carded.

So I remain puzzled. Is there an easy answer to this one that I am just missing? Or was the yellow card bogus, as I suspect? I'm not terribly bothered about it, since I think it will be great for Guzan to have a shot in goal against El Salvador, but I'd still be curious to hear any reactions/theories. Thanks.

(This may belong in the refs forum, in which case mods are free to move it, obv.)

[blazindw]

I still don't understand why Tim Howard got a yellow card last night. I know it was for time-wasting, but what was it that led to ref to believe Tim had wasted too much time? There seem to be two theories.

#1 He was carded for throwing the ball away toward the corner shortly after the collision with Marquez.

#2 He was carded for taking a second run-up toward the ball on the ensuing free kick.

Both of these seem incredibly bogus to me.

#1 seems bogus because it didn't actually result in any time being wasted. Tim threw the ball away while the Mexicans were still jawing at the ref over the card. In replays, you can actually see that the ball was returned to the penalty area for the free kick after Tim threw it away, but while the arguments with the ref are still ongoing. Moreover, after the second goal, the Mex goalie (Sanchez?) picked the ball out of the net and threw it toward the corner in just the same way--yet no card.

#2 seems bogus because it is incredibly trivial. Taking a first, then a second run-up at the ball costs about three seconds, so it hardly wastes any time at all. There are also any number of legitimate explanations for this, most evidently that Tim had just taken a boot to the knee and may not have been solid on his legs yet. And while I don't have any videos of goalkeeper FKs to study for comparison, I'm dead certain that I've seen goalkeepers take second run-ups to FKs without being carded.

So I remain puzzled. Is there an easy answer to this one that I am just missing? Or was the yellow card bogus, as I suspect? I'm not terribly bothered about it, since I think it will be great for Guzan to have a shot in goal against El Salvador, but I'd still be curious to hear any reactions/theories. Thanks.

(This may belong in the refs forum, in which case mods are free to move it, obv.)

It was 100% for the 2nd run-up. The ref didn't even see the ball throw away because he was too busy trying to get Marquez off the field. It was quite clear from where I was sitting in the supporters section that he was about to get it for the 2nd run up. Do I think it was trivial? Yes. But I could still see it coming.

[um_chili]

It was 100% for the 2nd run-up. The ref didn't even see the ball throw away because he was too busy trying to get Marquez off the field. It was quite clear from where I was sitting in the supporters section that he was about to get it for the 2nd run up. Do I think it was trivial? Yes. But I could still see it coming.

Thanks for the knowledge. I still don't quite get what the ref was thinking. Goalkeepers take second run-ups to free kicks all the time, and I can't remember ever seeing a yellow for it. Was TH doing something else to waste time before the FK, so that the second run-up was the final straw for the ref?

[PhillyQuakesFan]

Probably wouldn't have happened normally, but play had been stopped for about 2-3 minutes at that point and I think the ref just wanted to get things moving.

[radmonkey]

Thanks for the knowledge. I still don't quite get what the ref was thinking. Goalkeepers take second run-ups to free kicks all the time, and I can't remember ever seeing a yellow for it. Was TH doing something else to waste time before the FK, so that the second run-up was the final straw for the ref?
He stayed on the ground and he was rubbing his eyes for awhile. I actually thought he gotten a whack in the face in the melee.
Since I didn't really see how Marquez stuck his foot out until after the game.

I dunno, maybe he just wanted to send a message on time wasting. I doubt the ref cared whether he had another yellow or not. He was trying to manage the current game.

[blazindw]

Probably wouldn't have happened normally, but play had been stopped for about 2-3 minutes at that point and I think the ref just wanted to get things moving.

That's exactly what it was, I'm sure. Howard wasn't trying to waste time, he basically hobbled up to the ball and stopped to gather himself. His reaction to the card was a mix of him in disbelief that he got one for something so trivial but understanding why the ref gave him one in light of the circumstances (stoppage of play for 2-3 minutes)

[mcontento]

It was 100% for the 2nd run-up. The ref didn't even see the ball throw away because he was too busy trying to get Marquez off the field. It was quite clear from where I was sitting in the supporters section that he was about to get it for the 2nd run up. Do I think it was trivial? Yes. But I could still see it coming.

Yep this is the reason and it happens all the time, esp in WCQ and international matches for "time wasting".

Was it ticky tack? Yep.

Should Howard have known better? Yep. Then again maybe he knew the consequences and missing El Sal wasn't such a problem than hanging onto that yellow longer and missing an important game.

[MartSkin]

After he ran up and stopped I expected him to call Boca over to take the kick. I've seen that happen many times in games after a keeper takes a knock.

I'm sure the USSF could challenge it but I can't see why considering 1) the next game is against El Salvador. 2) We have a couple of capable back up keepers. 3) Why risk Timmy picking up a second yellow later and getting suspended for a more important game?

[deuteronomy]

Here is the thing which we could have missed. The referee could have spoken to Tim one or more times about wasting time. Typically, something like that occurs prior to a card such as this.

[DCFAN]

He was obviously injured so it was a really dumb call. How can you not give him the benefit of the doubt considering that he was shaking his leg frequently to shake the stiffness of the bruise out.

Thankfully Guzan is a good goalie and we should still be able to win our next match.

[Grumpy in LA]

Was it ticky tack? Yep. Should Howard have known better? Yep. Wasn't his last yellow for time-wasting also? In Guatemala? As I remember, he clearly was wasting time then. Not sure about this one, though.

[oshman800]

is there anyway this card can be appealed?

[deuteronomy]

Wasn't his last yellow for time-wasting also? In Guatemala? As I remember, he clearly was wasting time then. Not sure about this one, though.
time wasting, also, I am afraid.
per the USA soccer website:
Unfortunately for Howard, the result of the play also saw him pick-up a yellow card for time wasting, his second of World Cup qualifying, which means he must sit out the USA’s next qualifier on March 28 in El Salvador.

[Grumpy in LA]

is there anyway this card can be appealed? I'm pretty sure there is, but i really doubt that it could be appealed successfully. If the ref was wrong, he wasn't screamingly wrong, and that seems to be what it takes for a successful appeal.

[oshman800]

I'm pretty sure there is, but i really doubt that it could be appealed successfully. If the ref was wrong, he wasn't screamingly wrong, and that seems to be what it takes for a successful appeal.
i feel like timmy could have a valid argument if he said his leg was still in a lot of pain. I mean he did end up playing the ball short instead of kicking it deep

[judodono]

anyone notice how Tim immediately 'walked it off'? the guy didn't just get kicked with a stud, he is a stud..

if this was any other player around the world, he would have dropped to the ground, covered his face and killed 5-10 mins. off the clock.

[Grumpy in LA]

i feel like timmy could have a valid argument if he said his leg was still in a lot of pain. I mean he did end up playing the ball short instead of kicking it deep Yeah, but for appeals, the standard seems to be "does the ref also have a valid argument?" If so, the call usually stands.

Unless it's Man Utd or Chelsea appealing to the FA.

[FirstStar]

Summary:

Yellow for time wasting.

Bogus call.

Cleans out Timmy to waste time later.

Timmy a stud.

Guzan a stud, so we don't really care.