MNT 2005 vs. 2009

[Beastmode21]

I know its 2009 but I really don't think much will change as far as new personel is concerned before South Africa. So I pose the question: Are we a better team then we were about this stage four years ago? In my opinion...yes

Goal Keeping:
Tim Howard is obviously first choice keeper on the road to SA. I would say that, comparing Howard now to the form Keller was in THEN its pretty much a toss up. Keller made some fine saves when we needed them as has Howard. I can't really put one ahead of the other as far as what we've seen so far from Howard but hopefully as the Hex rolls on he can win that contest. As far as backups, I would say that we had a tad better situation four years ago, being that Howard was a back up. But I don't feel too nervous with Guzan.
Keepers: About Even

Center Backs:
Our two main backs were Gooch and Boca if I remember correctly which is the same now. Neither are too old and now have four more years under their belt so I would say they're more mature now. As for the backups, we had Pope as our "third back" and now I would say Califf. Personally I'm more confortable with Califf starting a WC game but thats just my preference. I couldn't argue that choice...I guess its just a hunch.
Center backs: 2009

Right Back:
We obviously have Cherundolo who is to me the most consistent player we have. After his recovery is over, he should be our main guy going into South Africa. In 2005 we had Albright and Hejduk. Now we have Hejduk and Wynne. I can say with confidence that our subs now are better than they were then.
Right back: 2009

Left Back:
The Eddie Lewis experiment was not a good one. He got skinned over and over again during the Cup. The LB position is still one of our main concerns in the run up to the Cup but I think we have a better situation now with Pearce and Bornstien.
Left Back: 2009

Right Mid:
In 2005 it was between Beasley and Ralston; obviously something that we were kind of stuck with. In the past few years Clint Dempsey has filled that role well. I don't care what anyone says...thats where he needs to be right now for the MNT and he is better than the options we had in '05. I also think this is where he is going to stay for the next few years since I don't see a challange aproaching and there are bundles of talent that packs the center of midfield.
Right Mid: 2009

Center Mids:
'05-Reyna Mastro O'broken...uhhh, yeah :(
= = < <
'09-Bradley Clark Kljestan Torres (better)

Basically, we have tons more depth and I would feal fine about any of these guys starting a WC game for us. And don't forget about Adu!!!:D
Center Mids: 2009

Left Mids:
I think this might have dropped a little in the last four years. Beasley, I think is still our number 1 guy but he isn't playing. Bobby Convey got released and Eddie Lewis is just plain old. (Not that he can't still play but...) We had a lot of depth here and now we're pretty thin.
Left Mid: 2005

Forwards:
I didn't talk about Donovan in the midfield becouse I wanted to talk about him now. I think he is clearly a better player now than he was then...although I think the last WC was the best thing that could have happened to him. I think it shook him up a bit. He is hopefully going to start at forward which is better than any option we had in 2005. Besides Donovan, we have Altidore, Ching, and Davies as opposed to Johnson, McBride, Wolf, and Twellman. I sure hope our front line is Altidore-Donovan...If thats the case I'll give the edge to 2009 if not, I'd call it even.

So, I obviously didn't talk about everyone or everything so please add your thoughts.:)

[purojogo]

Miy advice: Watch ESPN Deportes at 9PM ET tonight or its 4AM ET replay (they will show the 2005 US-Mexico game from qualifiers in C-bus) and then watch the big match tomorrow..... then one can compare away with an even more vivid memory....

[Davids26]

Comparing center backs between 05 and 09 is kind of a crap shoot. The way Bruce did it in qualifying he played Gooch with Berhalter in both Mexico games and I believe in the Trinidad home match. He paired Boca with Pope in many other qualifiers. At the time I think Pope was still viewed as the #1 CB, at least in Bruce's eyes, with him grooming Gooch to get ready for the World Cup. As we saw, Jimmy Conrad started to make his move into the picture during the '05 Gold Cup and originally ended up beating Berhalter to the original 2006 roster, along with a healthy (for a minute) Cory Gibbs.

When Gibbs was injured in training camp, Gregg Berhalter replaced him.

All this said, Boca and Gooch definitely weren't considered our top pairing at this time 4 years ago. Looking back, it seemed like Bruce did us a favor with his swapping of the two pairings in qualifying, giving both a chance to play with veterans that had been there before.

Undeniably, unless theres an injury, the locks on the backline for the US the first game next year in South Africa are Boca and Gooch with Howard in goal.

[chad]

The myth of Cherundolo's consistency is tiring. He was poor in 2006 and his club form has been inconsistent since, in part due to injuries and in part to simple drop-off.

It is possible both to admire a player's past and to recognize that he no longer is at his highest level.

[Tonerl]

There are more options at center mid now than in 2005, but the quality in 2005 was a lot higher. It's a little dodgy to suggest that we're "better", for me.

I'd also recommend watching the 2005 home hex match. Watch Reyna in that match, and then watch Bradley and Kljestan tomorrow, and then tell me we're better.

[cpwilson80]

My take on 2005 to 2009:

Keeper - 2009
Howard is in terrific form, and is doing so in a better league than Keller was in 2005.

Right back - 2009
Cherundolo is probably about even with where he was is 2005, but Wynne is a huge step over Albright. Spector, when healthy, is better now than in 2005.

Center backs - 2009
I think this is the biggest area of improvement for the national team. At this point in 2005, Pope started to lose a step, Bocanegra and Onyewu were error-prone, and Conrad just started appearing with the US.

Onyewu and Bocanegra have improved (particularly Onyewu), and DeMerit, Califf, Parkhurst, Goodson, Marshall and even Spector could provide cover here. A couple of good backs won't break through.

Left back - 2009
Only by default. Lewis, Convey, and Bocanegra all filled in at times, but nobody owned the position. Left back is still up in the air, but at least Bornstein and Pearce look reasonably comfortable back there.

Right mid - 2009
The other huge problem area in 2005. Quaranta and Ralston spent time giving away the position, and ultimately neither of them made the World Cup team.

We still don't have a natural winger, but Dempsey or Donovan play the position well.

Center mids - 2005
Remember, in 2005, O'Brien actually put together a stretch of games in both the Gold Cup and the T&T qualifier. Though we have far more options now, I don't think any pairing can currently top Reyna and O'Brien.

Left mid - 2005
Slight edge, only because Beasley was in the form of his life, and Convey emerged as a good alternative. Right now, we're solely reliant on Beasley or Donovan/Dempsey out of position.

Strikers - Holy crap
McBride/Donovan/Ching/Wolff/Johnson v. Ching/Donovan/Altidore/Davies/Dempsey. I'll go with the latter.

[Steve_in_LA]

Wow, I see some major problems with the above logic.

While the US had no answers at left back in 2005, the position is every bit as unsettled today. To say that Heath Pearce is a step up over Eddie Lewis is like saying Barnsley is better than Norwich. We want to believe Pearce is better, but that doesn't make it so.

Further, I don't know how we can say right back is better than '05, considering Cherundolo is injured. Likely, this game will feature Hejduk, and the same Hejduk started against Mexico in '05. Would you prefer a 30 year old or 34 year old Hejduk?

In midfield, there's a HUGE edge to 2005. Both Beasley and Convey were playing great competitive soccer - a vast improvement from the Beasley we last saw in qualifying. Center midfield featured Reyna and Armas. While they were both long-in-the-tooth in '05, I'd feel more comfortable with their veteran savvy than the likely Sacha/Bradley pairing. Right back, however, is a definite advantage to '09. Dempsey is in top form.

Striker? There's nobody in the US field that can currently match McBride's level in '05. Yes, Lando is with Bayern, but is he even a striker? We don't quite know what position he'll be playing. A more accurate comparison would be McBride '05 vs Ching '09. I'd take McBride. The '09 team does have superior depth, thankfully. Arena brought in Jeff Cunningham in '05, and I'd feel much more confident in Jozy.

[Adam Zebrowski]

mcbride was a quality pro but invisible in 2006...

altidore will eventually be better than a quality pro, at least villareal thinks so...

to me, it's DEPTH of talent in 2009..

when guys went down in 2005, the replacements could NOT step up...

right now, usa loses a player, there are quality options available

[Clint Eastwood]

mcbride was a quality pro but invisible in 2006...

altidore will eventually be better than a quality pro, at least villareal thinks so...

to me, it's DEPTH of talent in 2009..

when guys went down in 2005, the replacements could NOT step up...

right now, usa loses a player, there are quality options available

This is the key here. At every position we have a real argument going about who should play. In central midfield bob's got 8-9 legitimate options (Mastroeni, Clark, Bradley, Edu, Feilhaber, Torres, Kljestan, Szetela, etc.). What about Kyle Beckerman, Stuart Holden, Brian Carroll, and other solid MLS players? And we've got even younger talent like Arguez and Dax McCarty, etc.

In 2005 we had a tissue-soft O'Brien, an older Chris Armas, Mastroeni of course, Ben Olsen got a bunch of caps that year, Kerry Zavagnin, etc. We had Reyna of course, but at the end of his career.

The depth of talent, and quality talent is improving dramatically. That's what's exciting. This competition for places is what you need in order for 1-2 of these guys to take the next step. In 2014 you're not going to be playing for the USMNT at a World Cup unless you're playing for a major club in Europe. That's just the way I see it.

Do I think we have the talent to win the World Cup in 2010 or 2014? No, honestly. We're a nation that'll fight to make the knock-out stages, and maybe can do some damage there. But every WC cycle since 1986 I've been more and more excited about our talent level. If people step back and think about how far we've come from only 1998, it's pretty remarkable.

[Adam Zebrowski]

depth of talent looks like it'll be getting better for 2014 and 2018..

the next phase is getting multiple players starting on a top level champions league sides...

i still think winning a wc title is say 2054 ish

spain and holland have yet to win...

[D.C. UNITED]

lets not forget that Adu can play left mid also but I like him more in the middle, he just needs time

[cpwilson80]

The depth of talent, and quality talent is improving dramatically. That's what's exciting. This competition for places is what you need in order for 1-2 of these guys to take the next step....

If people step back and think about how far we've come from only 1998, it's pretty remarkable.

True that. Look at the alternates for each World Cup roster:

1998 (http://www.soccertimes.com/langdon/1998/may05.htm)
Keeper - Mark Dodd
Defenders - Gregg Berhalter
Midfielders - Tony Sanneh, Chris Henderson, John O'Brien, Mike Sorber
Forwards - Roy Lassiter, David Wagner

2002 (http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_15127.html)
Keepers - Tim Howard, Zack Thornton
Defenders - Steve Cherundolo, Richard Mulrooney, Greg Vanney
Midfielders - Brian Maisonneuve, Brian West, Richie Williams
Forwards - Jovan Kirovski, Ante Razov

2006 (http://www.ussoccer.com/articles/viewArticle.jsp_280933.html)
Keepers - Tony Meola, Matt Reis
Defenders - Todd Dunivant, Chris Albright, Gregg Berhalter
Midfielders - Chris Armas, Chris Klein, Pat Noonan, Steve Ralston, Kerry Zavagnin
Forwards - Conor Casey, Chris Rolfe, Taylor Twellman


For 2010, at the very least, we'll have a central defender and central midfielder who probably would have made the roster in earlier cycles.

[Easy Morning Rebel]

Would you prefer a 30 year old or 34 year old Hejduk?

Hejduk is an anomaly, so probably the 34-year-old version. Same motor, a little savvier.

[Mr Martin]

In making this comparison, we need to stay focussed on what things looked like in 2005, not what they turned out to be in 2006.

Goalkeeping: Slight edge for 2009. Keller was perfectly fine in 2005, and we had the younger Howard as a better backup than Guzan currently is. But Howard is excellent right now.

Outside Backs: Even between 2005 and 2009. 2005 had Cherundolo, Hejduk, and Albright at RB and Convey, Gibbs, Lewis, Boca at LB, and Spector was looking promising at either. That really is not different than the dubious situation today.

Central Backs: Slight edge to 2009. The starting quality and the depth are both slightly better today than in 2005. It isn't individually overwhelming, but in 2009 each spot is better than in 2005.

Outside Mids: Slight edge to 2009. Dempsey is significantly stronger at RM than anyone playing in 2005. But the 2005 Beasley was better than the 2009 version, and Convey and Lewis provided excellent depth at LM back then.

Central Mids: Edge to 2005. In 2005 the US had Reyna, O'Brien, Mastro, and Donovan playing CM. That was a far stronger grouping than what the US has today. Don't confuse O'Brien's 2006 health problems with what the situation looked like for the US in 2005. The 2009 depth is very encouraging, and I suspect in a couple of years the current crop will become very competitve and perhaps better than the 2005 unit. But they are not yet.

Forwards: Even. In 2005 Mcbride was in good form. Mathis was still a strong candidate and scored and assisted for the US in March of 2005. Eddie Johnson was still seen as the next big thing, and scored 3 times for the US in early 2005. In 2009 Donovan is in supurb form, but Altidore and Davies are still newbies internationally, Cooper still has much to prove, and Ching is just a steady veteran.

[cpwilson80]

depth of talent looks like it'll be getting better for 2014 and 2018..

the next phase is getting multiple players starting on a top level champions league sides...

i still think winning a wc title is say 2054 ish

spain and holland have yet to win...

The great outlier is that I believe we'll host again before Spain does again or Holland does for the first time. We could be a darkhorse for 2022.

[Tigerpunk]

The real difference between 2005 and 2009 is that our 2009 team is a lot younger. Our 2005 team included players mostly at-to-well-past their prime, whereas every player currently playing major minutes on the 2009 team are likely to be competing for a 2014 world cup roster spot, save Lewis, Hejduk, 'Dolo, and probably Bocanegra.

Furthermore, the not-at-their-prime players are all very promissing: Torres, Adu, Altidore, Wynne, Edu, and to a lesser degree Kljestan, all look like they will be key components of future teams.

The 2005 team is more experienced, and to some degree may be the 2009 team's equal. But the 2009 team has flat out more talent, and I think you'll see one of the youngest world cup squads we've ever fielded come 2010.

[Tigerpunk]

depth of talent looks like it'll be getting better for 2014 and 2018..

the next phase is getting multiple players starting on a top level champions league sides...

i still think winning a wc title is say 2054 ish

spain and holland have yet to win...

Well, the goal of 2010 wasn't to win, but to be competitive to win, by 2010. And by 2054, there will be additional problems, including the emergence of China as the world's best team, India as a competitive powerhouse (maybe?), and the potential for soccer to no longer be the world's most popular sport.

[mattmanp]

If people step back and think about how far we've come from only 1998, it's pretty remarkable.

I agree that we've come a long way. And considering MLS was started in 1993 and has evolved and improved over the years as well, I can't help but think there is a connection between the improvement of the two.

Assuming there is a strong correlation between strength of the home league and strength of the national team (England aside), I would expect to see 2014 and 2018 see some bigger jumps in quality then say 2002 to 2006 or 2006 to 2010.

I say this for 3 reasons.

1) The CCL and Superliga will add a lot of valuable experience playing foreign teams (CCL also adding away games). We're in a position to have more young players than ever playing meaningful games in places like Mexico, Costa Rica, Honduras, and Guatemala. This year Corey Ashe (22) and Stuart Holden (23) will be playing in Mexico (March 3rd vs Atlante).

2) The 2010 CBA that will be negotiated after this season should vastly increase the salary cap and, in turn, vastly increase the quality of play in the league. The current MLS salary cap is in the 2.3 - 2.5 million range and could jump to somewhere between 3.5 and 5 million, likely closer to 5.

3) The development academy should also have it's first batch of graduates 20-22 years old by 2014, and 24-26 by 2018. If the early reports of how the system is improving the competitiveness at the youth levels (it may not perfect, but it's better) then these are the years we can really gauge how it has affected the player pool.

In other words, it's a slow day at work.

[Revolt]

The real difference between 2005 and 2009 is that our 2009 team is a lot younger. Our 2005 team included players mostly at-to-well-past their prime, whereas every player currently playing major minutes on the 2009 team are likely to be competing for a 2014 world cup roster spot, save Lewis, Hejduk, 'Dolo, and probably Bocanegra.

Furthermore, the not-at-their-prime players are all very promissing: Torres, Adu, Altidore, Wynne, Edu, and to a lesser degree Kljestan, all look like they will be key components of future teams.

The 2005 team is more experienced, and to some degree may be the 2009 team's equal. But the 2009 team has flat out more talent, and I think you'll see one of the youngest world cup squads we've ever fielded come 2010.

+1.

[Tonerl]

3) The development academy should also have it's first batch of graduates 20-22 years old by 2014, and 24-26 by 2018. If the early reports of how the system is improving the competitiveness at the youth levels (it may not perfect, but it's better) then these are the years we can really gauge how it has affected the player pool.

This is a great point. I'd also add the emergence of real MLS youth academies. As much as we like to complain about the developmental system in this country (and I, personally, love to complain about it), until MLS teams are in charge of their own academies and they have incentive to run them as well as possible (being able to sign kids from them freely and getting salary cap relief when doing so, for example), it wasn't really going to get better. Too much country to have, say, one U-17 residency program really make any difference.