Patience

[togneter]

Only on BigSoccer can we take a complimentary post with a positive outlook on the future of US Soccer, tear it to shreds, then get into an off-topic bunch of infighting about who has the fastest athletes, how baseball and other sports are killing MLS, and [insert tired, rehashed topic here]...

Nice work boys. You should all be proud.

[togneter]

Originally posted by UncleSam527
Calling MLS a fledgling league is not the way to make friends on these boards.

Whoa, almost got whacked by that jerking knee...

FLEDGLING
Main Entry: fledg·ling
Pronunciation: 'flej-li[ng]
Function: noun
Date: 1830
1 : a young bird just fledged
2 : an immature or inexperienced person
3 : one that is new <a fledgling company>

"Fledgling" refers to the age of the league, not its quality. It is a young league. That's a fact.

Maybe you should understand the words before you criticize them.

[appoo]

Originally posted by maczebus


Ok, so what generalisations did I make?

I said that we don't take much notice of MLS over here because we have a league far more worth watching and it's all on our doorstep.

My response was to those posters that seem to prefer watching MLS due to the fact that it has a significant amount of speed to it's play. And indeed that MLS style of play was better than EPL due to this. I was just suggesting watching my local youth team, as it would be rather entertaining (by their own measure) to those posters.

And methinks you have some bug-bear with the English.
I'm not defending English players, merely defending the league style against statements that, in my opinion are wrong. If, in your opinion foriegn players make the league worth watching, then the league in your opinion is ok.
Surely there's some reason (other than the foriegners) why the EPL is ranked rather highly in 'the leagues to watch' table.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't watch MLS because something else is better, of course you should all do as much as possible to ensure MLS doesn't go the same way as the NASL.
I just didn't understand some people's opinions on what makes good football.

jealousy

[Soccer-Six-Shooter]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by janner
"I saw that some poor commenator had made a fatal mistake by uttering on what must have been an emotional night "my eyes have seen the glory" which was given coverage in the UK. The next day after reading some of your press it was if the man had murdered his family."

Jack Edwards. This statement will haunt him for the rest of his life.


"In 94-98 i could probably name one of your team , lalas , 2002 i can name at least 5."

Everyone always remembers Lalas and his goatee.
Credit should go to Lalas in the 90's for USA soccer. Janner did not state which 5 guys he could name on the 2002 team. C'mon tell us.

[janner]

Thx for the nice varied response , though im not sure all of it is relevant.

The other 5 players :
Donovan
O'brien
Friedel
Mathis
Reyna
Pope
I lied i can name six.

Some very interesting replies were posted but it seems the thread deviated into comparing the EP to MLS.
Im a west ham season ticket holder , my team is run by city executives who dont give a f*** about fans as long as we spend money. My team plays in a league which has great entertainment value but in turn is also run by the city execs.
If your a season ticket holder of any team in the EPL and your working class then you must have stole it.
What im trying to say is that our league has to many ppl invovled in it that dont care about football , as your league has nothing but committed ppl trying to establish football.
Dont be envious of wot we got unless you like gloss and no substance.

Also sorry to offend any1 but the idea of fast athletes making good footballers is a joke , mainly on the pricipal that you need the ball at your feet from the age of 6 to be any good.
So looks like all those soccer moms might win you the world cup eventually.
How long b4 the dads take over?
--------
Janner

We have chips you have fries.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by maczebus


Ok, so what generalisations did I make?

Implicitly comparing MLS to a schoolboy league.

Originally posted by maczebus

...

My response was to those posters that seem to prefer watching MLS due to the fact that it has a significant amount of speed to it's play. And indeed that MLS style of play was better than EPL due to this. I was just suggesting watching my local youth team, as it would be rather entertaining (by their own measure) to those posters.


The EPL plays a significantly faster pace than MLS for a number of reasons, including deliberate choice of style and the fact that the MLS plays in the summer in some very hot places.

Originally posted by maczebus

And methinks you have some bug-bear with the English.


Only that the English empahsis on crossing and workrate are bad for the game of football and I would prefer that English prestige in football diminish in order to check these, in my opinion, negative influences.

Originally posted by maczebus

I'm not defending English players, merely defending the league style against statements that, in my opinion are wrong. If, in your opinion foriegn players make the league worth watching, then the league in your opinion is ok.


Yes, the EPL is OK, though if I see a match between Charlton and West Brom, I turn off the TV.

Originally posted by maczebus

Surely there's some reason (other than the foriegners) why the EPL is ranked rather highly in 'the leagues to watch' table.


No, that's the main reason. Without the foreigners, it would not be ranked in the top 2 or 3. Though this is true of most leagues I suppose and is thus besides the point.

Originally posted by maczebus

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't watch MLS because something else is better, of course you should all do as much as possible to ensure MLS doesn't go the same way as the NASL.
I just didn't understand some people's opinions on what makes good football.

There is lots of good football out there. Sometimes you find it in the EPL, sometimes in La Liga, La Primera, the Budesliga, MLS, or heck even in the Peruvian league.

[Red Card]

Originally posted by Red Card


If we consider the continental 48 and assume it is in the shape of a rectangle 3000 miles wide, 1500 miles high, we would have 10 x 5 = 50 stadiums that are 300 miles apart horizontally and vertically.

Nobody caught my math error? Just for my own personal ego, I have to correct my math error.

I forgot to count a stadium at the starting point. In a 3000 mile stretch you have 11 stadiums 300 miles apart. So the correct count is 11 x 6 = 66.

[slacker]

Just to continue on one of the random ideas woven into this thread - stadium and team proximity -

Having more away fans would make the atmosphere better at soccer mathces. Maybe in ten years we could have more of this - at least some more groupings of teams into regional rivalries where one or two other teams are that close such as:

Boston - New York - Philadelphia - Pittsburgh - DC

Milwaukee - St. Louis - Chicago - Columbus - Detroit

San Diego - LA . . . San Jose - San Francisco . . . Portland - Seattle

Atlanta - N. Carolina - Tennessee - Florida

Dallas - Houston - San Antonio

Hey, we can dream.

[togneter]

Originally posted by janner
Thx for the nice varied response , though im not sure all of it is relevant.

The other 5 players :
Donovan
O'brien
Friedel
Mathis
Reyna
Pope
I lied i can name six.

Some very interesting replies were posted but it seems the thread deviated into comparing the EP to MLS.
Im a west ham season ticket holder , my team is run by city executives who dont give a f*** about fans as long as we spend money. My team plays in a league which has great entertainment value but in turn is also run by the city execs.
If your a season ticket holder of any team in the EPL and your working class then you must have stole it.
What im trying to say is that our league has to many ppl invovled in it that dont care about football , as your league has nothing but committed ppl trying to establish football.
Dont be envious of wot we got unless you like gloss and no substance.

Also sorry to offend any1 but the idea of fast athletes making good footballers is a joke , mainly on the pricipal that you need the ball at your feet from the age of 6 to be any good.
So looks like all those soccer moms might win you the world cup eventually.
How long b4 the dads take over?
--------
Janner

We have chips you have fries.

Janner--

Thanks for your intelligent and complimentary posts.

Surely, you must also know Keller. That's 7.

[sandman012]

Originally posted by janner

Im a west ham season ticket holder , my team is run by city executives who dont give a f*** about fans as long as we spend money. My team plays in a league which has great entertainment value but in turn is also run by the city execs.
If your a season ticket holder of any team in the EPL and your working class then you must have stole it.
What im trying to say is that our league has to many ppl invovled in it that dont care about football , as your league has nothing but committed ppl trying to establish football.
Dont be envious of wot we got unless you like gloss and no substance.
--------
Janner


So we'll know MLS has 'made it' when its just like the Big Three ....... and the EPL.

Originally posted by janner

So looks like all those soccer moms might win you the world cup eventually.
How long b4 the dads take over?
--------
Janner

We have chips you have fries.

Brilliant!!

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer


Implicitly comparing MLS to a schoolboy league.


I wasn't, but even if I did, that would be a comparison and not a generalisation.
I never implicitly do anything, but I guess one has to know me to know that :)

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

The EPL plays a significantly faster pace than MLS for a number of reasons, including deliberate choice of style and the fact that the MLS plays in the summer in some very hot places.

Ok so we agree on that then. I was replying to those that thought otherwise. I wasn't going through the reasons for it. Sure those reasons you gave are great, but not part of my root point.

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

Only that the English empahsis on crossing and workrate are bad for the game of football and I would prefer that English prestige in football diminish in order to check these, in my opinion, negative influences.

I'm not sure how English football is bad for the game of football. It's different, if other leagues want to play in another style then they are perfectly entitled to do so. How English football is going to be singlehandedly responsible for damaging the game of football is beyond me.
As much as the SAmerican style of play relects the hotter conditions as do to some degree, the Latin leagues in Europe - so to does the English style. If you've never been here, you'll at least know of the stereotypical UK weather. As British stereotypes go, it's one of the better ones. It's rarely massively hot here and the football can go at an alarming rate.


Originally posted by Martin Fischer

Yes, the EPL is OK, though if I see a match between Charlton and West Brom, I turn off the TV.

I don't blame you :)
If Lecce were playing Bologna, I would do the same as the Italian style can become incredibly dull at that level. It's all about what rocks your boat. But I wouldn't say that the Italian style is bad for the game because I don't like it (well maybe if they'd get a new national coach).

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

No, that's the main reason. Without the foreigners, it would not be ranked in the top 2 or 3. Though this is true of most leagues I suppose and is thus besides the point.

True, a little beside the point. But again I was defending the league as a whole. But yes you're probably right.

[copaantl98]

I saw the Southampton and Liverpool game. Once again, this proves people exaggerate on how fun the English Premier League is. This game was just like the Premiership games I watched over the years. The defenders were constantly making self-errors. In the first goal, the defender lost it right to Heskey. Whenever a player got the ball, he was given a ton of space with no pressure. When a long ball was lofted, the defender instead of going up to challenge, just backed off. The crosses would sail out of bounds a whole lot.

[Maczebus]

Originally posted by copaantl98
I saw the Southampton and Liverpool game. Once again, this proves people exaggerate on how fun the English Premier League is. This game was just like the Premiership games I watched over the years. The defenders were constantly making self-errors. In the first goal, the defender lost it right to Heskey. Whenever a player got the ball, he was given a ton of space with no pressure. When a long ball was lofted, the defender instead of going up to challenge, just backed off. The crosses would sail out of bounds a whole lot.

You watched a Southampton match and thought this wouldn't happen?
It appears there maybe more to learn about the EPL than you'd first thought.

And if it's so bad then don't watch it.
Each to their own.
The SJ/Burn match doesn't make me want to get a season ticket either.

[copaantl98]

I'll still watch just because it's soccer. I'm also looking for more excuses to why MLS is more fun to watch.

[Bajoro]

Originally posted by maczebus

Each to their own.
The SJ/Burn match doesn't make me want to get a season ticket either.


Hmm... I thought it was a pretty good match. But SJ and Dallas can both play better.

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by maczebus


I'm not sure how English football is bad for the game of football. It's different, if other leagues want to play in another style then they are perfectly entitled to do so. How English football is going to be singlehandedly responsible for damaging the game of football is beyond me.
...


My opinion, and it is just that, is that if the EPL or the England national team have success, more countries will go more to the English style of play. Since I don't like this style as much, I hope that doesn't happen. In general terms that is.

Originally posted by maczebus


...
If Lecce were playing Bologna, I would do the same as the Italian style can become incredibly dull at that level. It's all about what rocks your boat. But I wouldn't say that the Italian style is bad for the game because I don't like it (well maybe if they'd get a new national coach).

...

Actually, I generally would prefer Lecce v. Bolognz or Espanol v. Rayo Vallecano, but that's just me. It is obvious that I don't have major disagreements with your view of football.

[eagleterp]

somehow, we've turned a nice post praising american soccer progress, into a nationalistic competition about what leagues are better (sigh).

[Brownswan]

Originally posted by UncleSam527
Calling MLS a fledgling league is not the way to make friends on these boards.

But it is, and he surely did. Is that a chip on your shoulder or did somebody pee in your apple juice?

[Brownswan]

Originally posted by togneter
Only on BigSoccer can we take a complimentary post with a positive outlook on the future of US Soccer, tear it to shreds, then get into an off-topic bunch of infighting about who has the fastest athletes, how baseball and other sports are killing MLS, and [insert tired, rehashed topic here]...

Nice work boys. You should all be proud.

I was only going to quote a bit of this, but the whole post deserves repeating.

I'm getting real sick of our constantly bristling at the suggestion that we have a bit more to learn about soccer from the rest of the world -- including England. The fact is, we do. That doesn't diminish what has been accomplished in the past decade, including the growth of all our pro leagues, not just MLS in the last 6 years. And it doesn't make our game any less fun to watch from my point of view.

As a born-and-bred Yank I have a question. If "all American sports" are based on explosive speed, why does it take 3 hours to play a one-hour game of pointy? And where's the explosive speed in a home run? Aside from the ball blasting off the bat, the hitter gets to round the bases at a trot, while the other team just stands around smacking their gloves.

Speed is relative, especially in the small arenas of the NBA and NHL. I'll take golf any day. Fly fishing? Don't get me started. Tennis anyone? It's all about the women, and what they wear and dont wear on the court.

And who cares how fast anyone runs 100 meters when there's no ball at his feet? I've seen purse-snatchers in Manhattan could set a world record in the dash! As Woody Allen famously remarked, "A sport is something you do with a ball."

[Red Card]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer


My opinion, and it is just that, is that if the EPL or the England national team have success, more countries will go more to the English style of play. Since I don't like this style as much, I hope that doesn't happen. In general terms that is.


I don't think you can call England's team the "England national team" from a political point of view. After I watched them barely lose to Brazil I was thinking that the result might have been different if it had been a "British national team" with Giggs.