Hugh Dallas sends off player for u know what

[VFish]

The persistent grumbling about Hugh Dallas’ hidden agenda piqued my interest, so I re-watched the USA-Germany match. To be honest, other than the handball no call and the Jermies v. Reyna yellow card incident, Mr. Dallas did a good job in this match. Such a good job that using this match as evidence of bias and favoritism becomes laughable.

[Chowderhead]

Originally posted by VFish
The persistent grumbling about Hugh Dallas’ hidden agenda piqued my interest, so I re-watched the USA-Germany match. To be honest, other than the handball no call and the Jermies v. Reyna yellow card incident, Mr. Dallas did a good job in this match. Such a good job that using this match as evidence of bias and favoritism becomes laughable.

Agreed for the sake of argumentation. But did you not notice the schoolmaster approach he took to the Yanks? Were you not just a bit offended by that? He's competent. He's honest. But he came to the field with the haughty presupposition that the Yanks needed an education.

Then he blew a call. But that's another matter.

[VFish]

Every nation can produce an extensive list of past grievances, so such a list hardly represents a conspiracy. I’m not defending poor refereeing, but it’s a fact of life. Rather than expounding conspiracy theories, perhaps you should be attacking FIFA’s system of referee assignments. The WC deserves the best referees, but FIFA’s allocation scheme insures most of the Worlds best refs will be watching the tournament on TV. I’d remove the stipulation that each region be represented by the same # of refs as it is allocated WC slots. I’d also remove the restriction that a nation can only send one referee to the tournament. The fact is, most of the referees and referee’s assistance aren’t qualified to be working this tournament, and as a result, poor refereeing always plagues the World Cup.

[VFish]

Originally posted by Chowderhead


Agreed for the sake of argumentation. But did you not notice the schoolmaster approach he took to the Yanks? Were you not just a bit offended by that? He's competent. He's honest. But he came to the field with the haughty presupposition that the Yanks needed an education.

Then he blew a call. But that's another matter.
I didn’t see it (a condescending attitude), but to be honest, it wasn’t what I was looking for. Can you cite some examples?

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Chowderhead


We do have the advantage of first hand experience, my curious friend. It's not FIFA that's anti-US, though. To that I will agree. But many men in the middle have decided to give us the old treatment through the years.

Have you ever seen the tape of a little thing called the US-Guatemala WCQ played at RFK in November 1996? That was a real shining moment. You haven't lived until you've seen a 90 minute kungfu exhibition done to marimba music.

How about a little thing called the US-Trinidad and Tobago game played that same month? You know. The game in which some Trinnie put Tab Ramos in the hospital and the ref stood there as if he were watching Forrest Gump or Titanic in the front row of a movie theatre? Did you catch that? Sheer poetry, that game was.

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Peter Prendergast? A month and a half before he dropped four hits of windowpane and officiated the US-Costa Rica game (the Berhalter hand ball off the chest in the 91st minute?) he sat back and watched the Mexican Folkloric Ballet chop Claudio Reyna mercilessly in Giants Stadium. Did you happen to catch that? He did SWEET FA about it.

Did you see Cobi Jones get sent off in Honduras? We still had them that night, though, didn't we? No foul was called on the real perp and we ended up with ten on the field down in Hondie.

Have you ever heard of a guy by the name of Sherriff Castrilli? Oh, you have, huh? Do you remember the call that he made against Friedel during that WCQ in the Azteca for too many steps? That was the only time in my life that I've seen that called at the international level.

And how on God's green earth was that PK called against Agoos in the Korea game? And the subsequent free kick?

How could Beasley possibly have been yellow carded against Portugal? I'm still trying to figure that out. Why did Wolff get a yellow against Mexico? And then Friedel?

The list goes on and on, pal. FIFA and USSF may be tight. And they should be. But that doesn't mean that individual refs haven't been biased against Uncle.

Surf's up, dude.

Watch Ireland V Belguim in 1982 for the most bias referee of all time, and I'm not complaining that Fifa is against us.

An Anti American agent is frankly bull, they'd LOVE to see a succesful team USA, that's why it was held there in the first place in 1994. All they care about is money, and succesful team USA = Money.

[flanoverseas]

Originally posted by VFish

I didn’t see it (a condescending attitude), but to be honest, it wasn’t what I was looking for. Can you cite some examples? ANY and EVERY time he talked to Greg Berhalter...you would've thought he screwed his daughter (maybe that is the real reason)

[Thomas Flannigan]

Defenders of FIFA have not addressed the dive that led to the German goal, the outrageous cards on setting the wall, the three suspensions that the US carries into the next tournament, the fact that he cut injury time way short while Germany was on life support. Kahn collapsed in a heap at the end of the game. Dallas was known as a ref that hated the US and always seemed to give Reyna a hard time in the Scottish League. Having Hugh Dallas lecture you about soccer it like having a prostitute lecture you about love.
We shared a taxi back to Kyongju after the game with two Australian-Indians, one who was enrolling at Columbia University and were cheering for Germany at the game. They brought it up. The father said that the ref handed the game to Germany and gave me a point by point critique. He went wild on the endless free kick opportunities rather than than whether the ball crossed the line or there was a handball. He wanted the U.S. to lose but he did not want to come all the way to Korea to watch a rigged match. The two men were going to Daejeon the next day for the Spain-Korea game, which was also rigged in my opinion. I think most fans around the world who watched the two games I have discussed thought the fix was in.
I agree with our Irish friend that the 1982 Ireland Belgium game had a bad ref.
I agree with one of my critics that the refs IN GENERAL at the World Cup were very good. Remember my April 2002 prediction here, that the refs would be biased to help Korea and hurt the US. That prediction was absolutely true. Other games were not perfect but generally had fine refs.
Just my opinions.

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Better to be quiet? FIFA likes it that way. The fans all over the world sure weren't quiet when they saw one outrageous call after another. An incompetent ref would blow calls both ways. No one has pointed out a bad call by Uli Schmeir or Dallas that helped the U.S. All of the bad calls helped the opposition.
You are never going to get one of these guys to confess anymore than a corrupt US President will ADMIT to wrongdoing. But people paying attetnion sure knows what is going on.
FIFA is facing a crisis in confidence and would not have made the extraordinary announcement conceding that the refs were bad unless it had to.
My opinions.

Refereeing at the highest level is a very difficult job. So difficult that I'd wager most people couldn't handle it. The speed of play is incredible, and there is all kinds of gamesmanship going on that it's hard to be clear what's going on sometimes.

Having said that, FIFA needs to improve the refereeing, and more specificially, improve the quality of the assistant refereeing. They have said this publicly, and are working on a plan to do just that.

There are always bad calls at every World Cup. The faster the game gets, the more bad calls. And the game is faster now than at any time before. Adjustments are being made. Two center referees are being tried in some places, and they are going the way of selecting whole refereeing crews from the same country rather than assembling crews piecemeal from many different countries. I think this will improve things tremendously.

My point about corruption was simple. It is very unfair and unscientific to raise cries of corruption without any sort of evidence. If someone were to say, "Thomas Flannigan plays with little boys" and does not provide any evidence, then three things have/will occur:

(1) Your character has been assasinated without due cause, and your accuser shows no interest in getting at the truth.

(2) You are presumed guilty by a lot of people and are ostracized, your reputation ruined.

(3) You are asked by the Catholic Church if you are free to work on Sundays. *wink*

[superdave]

Slash/ED, please don't judge us by Flannigan. He's a paranoid crazy man.
Originally posted by Nermalthecat
I think Dallas lied - he missed the play, and then claimed he saw it.
Yeah, there was something about the way he described it that was at odds with what happened. I think he didn't see it, and pretended he had.

I could at least have some respect for him if he'd have said that.

[Jacen McCullough]

Arguing tactics and player selection after the Cup is great. That's something we can learn from and correct for the next time. As for the ref issues. I remember watching Mexico and Italy cry after their losses. I remember the US team shaking German players hands. Proudly waving the flag and applauding the crowd. I remember them holding their heads high with the realization that those are the breaks, and sometimes they don't go your way. Do I think the Germans dived more than a little? Do I think the handball was a questionable call? Some of the yellows? Yeah, I sure do. That doesn't mean we have to dwell on those things. Look back over the Cup; tell me there aren't better images and moments to dwell on.

JMac

[Delta Blues]

Originally posted by Slash/ED
Bottom line, the JOB no call was as much a PK as the Germany one, so either both we're PKs or neither we're PKs, in the end justice was done. It happens in football.

So "justice" is that we beat Mexico 2-1 anyway instead of 2-0, and lose 1-0 to Germany? With both calls made we might have been in the semi's at least. As for the Germany match, the worst, most inexcuseable, rediculous, mind-numbing, pathetic and criminal call was the offsides on Donovan that would have put him 1v1 vs. Kahn in the middle of the box. Unlike his other chances which were at severe angles, or with defensive pressure to one side, he would have had Kahn at his mercy. It was simply one of the worst calls of the cup.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Coach Arena and Reyna were suspended after Peter Prendergast's shameful calls in Costa Rica for 3 games each. Arena criticized Prendergast to the press and Reyna charged Prendergast and made him back up 5 or 6 feet.
Keep in mind 5 Catrachos charged Navaro in DC, and chased him halfway across the field. None of them were suspended.
These are examples of CONCACAF bias, not FIFA bias.

Maczebus, I have to defend US fans a bit. Not Thomas, who is a crazy lunatic (that's not a personal attack, I can use the "truth" defense.) But CONCACAF screws the USMNT and MLS teams in ways you would not believe. In case, in a club competition, the regular refs couldn't get to a match in Mexico. IIRC, visa problems :rolleyes: So the club provided local refs. Several PKs and cards later, the Mexican club had a huge win.

It's easy for our fans to translate the accurate perception of bias (in CONCACAF) to an inaccurate perception of bias in the World Cup.

I also would point to Dallas' attitude toward our players that game. And also his rewarding the German players for diving. My opinion is that he was familiar with/predisposed toward the German players. But that would have been true if the German opponents had been Senegal or Mexico or SoKo.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Remember my April 2002 prediction here, that the refs would be biased to help Korea and hurt the US.
That wasn't your prediction.

Liar.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Delta Blues


So "justice" is that we beat Mexico 2-1 anyway instead of 2-0, and lose 1-0 to Germany? With both calls made we might have been in the semi's at least. As for the Germany match, the worst, most inexcuseable, rediculous, mind-numbing, pathetic and criminal call was the offsides on Donovan that would have put him 1v1 vs. Kahn in the middle of the box. Unlike his other chances which were at severe angles, or with defensive pressure to one side, he would have had Kahn at his mercy. It was simply one of the worst calls of the cup.

Watch any Italy match in the world cup and you'll see alot worst offside decisions made, and you can't possibley say that if Mexico had of scored from the penalty that they definitely wouldn't have scored again, you and I both know football doesn't work like that.

Also, watch Ireland V Germany, they dived all over the place there too and kept getting decisions, I'm not calling for Fifa to be disbanded over it though.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Delta Blues
So "justice" is that we beat Mexico 2-1 anyway instead of 2-0
Well, to be fair, our 2nd goal is the kind of goal that usually is given up by a team that's trailing and pushing for a goal. That was a classic counterattacking goal.

Of course, so was our first goal. :)

[monster]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
it like having a prostitute lecture you about love.

You know my favorite thing about this Web site? People being able to apply the lessons of their real life to what they post about.

[VFish]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Defenders of FIFA have not addressed the dive that led to the German goal, the outrageous cards on setting the wall, the three suspensions that the US carries into the next tournament, the fact that he cut injury time way short while Germany was on life support. Kahn collapsed in a heap at the end of the game. Dallas was known as a ref that hated the US and always seemed to give Reyna a hard time in the Scottish League. Having Hugh Dallas lecture you about soccer it like having a prostitute lecture you about love.

....

Just my opinions. Defenders of FIFA? WTF?

Thomas, your arguments point to tactics, not conspiracies.

Without a doubt, the Germans are floppers, and Klose (or Neuville or whomever?) took a dive to set up their goal, but that hardly implicates FIFA. Germany’s strength is set plays, so they’re apt to fall whenever given the slightest nudge in order to earn free kicks. Not an admirable strategy, but sadly “gamesmanship” has become part of the game.

As far as the cards... to be honest, our defensive tactics warranted them. We held, fouled and hacked to prevent German counterattacks and to break up their midfield. The strategy that was very effective, but meant we were going to pick up numerous cards.

Rant and rave all you like… but this was a fairly contested match. Hugh Dallas may have been patronizing, but he was also even handed.

JMHO!

[VFish]

Originally posted by superdave

That wasn't your prediction.

Liar. What's with the personal attacks?

[The Ghost of BillR4]

Sadly, and the World Cup proved it, Hugh Dallas is one of that sad cadre of "it's really all about me" referees that are a blight on the game.

[Chowderhead]

Please allow me to clarify my own views. I don't see an institutionalized FIFA bias. FIFA probably loves us. But, as someone has mentioned, I do see an anti-US bias on the part of individuals from Concacaf. Beyond that, I find certain UEFA and CONMEBOL officials to be rather professorial towards our players.

I'm not complaining about Dallas' interpretation of the goal line handball. I was incensed by his headmaster-with-a-ruler attitude towards our boys. Was it Lewis who was fouled and then asked to shake hands with the perp?

We went down fighting and took the loss like sportsmen.

But I will say that there was a major difference between the O'Brien handball and the Berhalter chance. The O'Brien handball was not seen as a handball and, as such, was never a judgement call or interpretation. Therefore we were not benificiaries of lenient officating (remember that we somehow ended up with as many yellows as Mexico, incredible as that seemed). The goal line handball was seen.

Don't give me the justice crap either.