Hugh Dallas sends off player for u know what

[Thomas Flannigan]

Thanks to Metrotard and Nutmeg for thoughtful posts. Good points on the JOB handball.
The German handball either prevented a goal or made it harder to see that one was scored. The Mexican player that JOB was defending had his back to the goal and his arms up too. It did not take away a scoring opportunity.
Perreira called a good game except for, perhaps, this call, and the failure to red card Blanco on two occasions. The US-Mexico game was the fairest game from an officiating standpoint. US-Korea was the worst, followed by Germany.
These are just my opinions and if people think that the ball was stopped by Kahn AND there was no handball that is their right to do so.
In the Mexico game the U.S. played much better than Mexico and won. In the Germany game the US also played much better but lost. If you talk about calls evening out please keep this in mind.

[Bajoro]

Originally posted by superdave
...I haven't rewatched the game yet, so I can't say whether or not his arms were out enough to consider it deliberate.
...

Superdave, when you do get around to watching it, pay special attention to the "offside" call against Donovan in minute 2 or 3. Watch the replay, over and over again.

(You may want to have a bottle of Pepto Bismol handy if you're susceptible to upset stomach.)

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Perhaps some of you remember my thread (before things got so bad on these boards) "Will FIFA rig an early departure for the U.S.? In that thread I suggested 3 reasons that the U.S. may get bad referees in Korea. Mike Lastort called me a "paranoid lunatic" and others were also very insulting, trotting out the usual insults such as "conspiracy theory" and so on. Erid d said: "It scares me that people like you are allowed to father children". Moderators swooped in like vultures. But I was right.
In that thread I suggested 3 reasons why the U.S. may get bad referees in Korea.
1. Money: Games in Korea were not selling out and FIFA needed to get Korea into the second round to avoid a financial hit. You all saw the game Uli Schmeir called in the Korea-U.S. game, one of the most shameful performances I have ever seen in a sporting event. I correctly predicted this.
2. Security. The U.S. team caused extra security problems. KOWOC's president said as much when he expressed regret that the U.S. had qualified, Rodolfo Sibrian notwithstanding.
3. Stopping the U.S. from dominating one of the few things we don't dominate. I took pains to point out that money was far more important than the other two reasons. Indeed, some factions within FIFA probably want the U.S. to do well to make more money. But they don't pick the referees (Codesel, Texeira, etc.)
Most of the fans worldwide who watched the Korean games, or a significant minority of such fans, think those games were rigged. FIFA took the truly unprecedented step of apologizing for the bad refs. Beckenbauer and Platini, two men who have a chance to succeed Blatter as head of FIFA, publicly upbraided the refs.
In my opinion FIFA went pretty far to get the results and faces a crisis of credibility as a result.
If the refs in question were incompetent they should be fired. If the games were rigged different solutions are required.
Just my opinions.

What a load of Bull, JOBs hand ball was clear the the only two excuses I've heard are.....

"It was unintentional" if you can call THAT unintentional thent he German one was a definitely no call.

"It didn't prevent a goal" Was unaware of this new Fifa regulation, maybe I should consult the make it up as you go along book of arguments and regulations?

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Bajoro


Superdave, when you do get around to watching it, pay special attention to the "offside" call against Donovan in minute 2 or 3. Watch the replay, over and over again.

(You may want to have a bottle of Pepto Bismol handy if you're susceptible to upset stomach.)

Did you not see the Italian matches? The refereeing and espically the linesmen we're rubbish throughout the entire tournament. I find the bitterness from most people here pretty funny actually.

[Bajoro]

Originally posted by bungadiri

...I think the non-call is defensible given a strict reading of the Laws, even if it's at odds with general practice...

Very well put, and exactly why it's so upsetting. It's one of those gray areas that refs face (as Nutmeg pointed out), but it makes you wonder if the US would have benefitted from a non-call had if it been Pope or Mastoeni's hand in back of Friedel. Of course not, it would have been either a penalty or a goal every time.

While I don't want to get involved in the personal nature of some of the posts, in general I agree with one of your points, Thomas. I'm amazed at what seems to be the low self-esteem among US fans who are so quick to defend Mr. Dallas' non-call — especially in light of the phantom foul on Lewis that set up the game's only official goal, and in light of Beckenbauer's critique.

In my heart, in my head, that's a handball.

In general practice... that's a handball.

I'll buy someone's contention that it's not a handball, only if the statement is qualified thusly: "An argument can be made that's it's not a handball." Yeah, an argument can be made. But it would be a weak argument.

[Bajoro]

Originally posted by Slash/ED


Did you not see the Italian matches? The refereeing and espically the linesmen we're rubbish throughout the entire tournament. I find the bitterness from most people here pretty funny actually.

What in the world does that have to do with this topic?

Because the refs were terrible in the Italy matches, I'm supposed to be less upset that the US got jobbed?

What's your point? Is bitterness from Italian fans and Irish fans more worthy than bitterness from US fans? Sorry Slash, that makes no sense.

[Slash/ED]

My point was people going on about vendettas against team USA and then bringing up stuff like stupid offside decisions that hey, it wasn't only America that had to put up with that.

[Bajoro]

I guess you have point.

However that doesn't take away my constitutionally-guaranteed right to be bitter!

[Nermalthecat]

Originally posted by Bajoro


Superdave, when you do get around to watching it, pay special attention to the "offside" call against Donovan in minute 2 or 3. Watch the replay, over and over again.

I'm glad you posted that. That, to me, was the biggest blown call of the game and NO ONE mentioned it on the telecast, or really on here afterwards.

Donovan was kept onside by TWO German defenders and had a clear breakaway. I was livid when I was watching the game.

I think Frings' play should have been a PK, but it was not a 100% clearcut situation. Most referees would have called it a PK had they seen it. I think Dallas lied - he missed the play, and then claimed he saw it.

[wu-tang beez]

Originally posted by VFish
Are we still bellyachin' about that non-call? Jezus Pete, it was ages ago! Perhaps we can dig up Pendergrast’s unconscionable call against us in qualifying while we at it.

The Cup’s over, time to move on…
I can't move on because much like OJ, it keeps resurfacing it's head to remind me how injust things are. Literally, last night I was minding my own business jogging around the park and it hit me again. We were better than Germany that day and deserved to win. If the call had been made, the score would've been 1 all w/ lots of time remaining to go ahead. We then would have been pitted against a team, albeit we wouldv'e been missing a lot of players from cards and injuries, that we had outplayed in the last 2 match ups. If we had just kept the level of play constant, we would've been in the Finals. I will not let that no-showering, penny pinching, haggish eating buffoon drive me mad. Noooooooooo!
I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... Keep telling yourself this in the mirror, Stuart, it won't work. Here's my affirmation, no justice. No peace.

[Thomas Flannigan]

Slash ED. It sounds like you, like so many Irish fans I met, wanted us to lose early at the Cup. I saw tons of Irish fans with their faces painted in Korean colors before the game in Daegu. Sorry to diappoint you by going farther than you did.
Spain got screwed. Italy got screwed by Moreno and others. The US had bad refs 4 out of 5 games at the Cup, especially the Korea game. My opinions.
John O'Brien said on TV that his hand hit the ball inside the penalty area. He said the Mexican player pushed his elbow up and caused it. That of course would not be a PK if the other side caused it. I was too far away to see it and the replay does not show the arm activity.
I assume you were cheering for Germany too. Congratulations. You get by with a little help from your friends.

[Slash/ED]

Why would an Irishman want America to go out early? Talk about paranoid, why not try and argue with the points I made? And if O'Brien decided that what he did wasn't a pen, that we all just take his point for granted?

[wu-tang beez]

one last thing b4 I drink myself into a stupor, I have held as my own belief that the refs missed the JOB and German handball since the 1st time I saw the replays. The beautiful thing about sport, is the human element. NO game will ever be "perfect" and for the sake of keeping my interest, I hope it never does.

[Slash/ED]

Bottom line, the JOB no call was as much a PK as the Germany one, so either both we're PKs or neither we're PKs, in the end justice was done. It happens in football.

[Thomas Flannigan]

SlashEd. We had a few discussions on the Ireland board prior to your arrival at Big Soccer. I was surprised at how many Irish people, or people of Irish ancestry, rooted against the USMNT. Pmanion was one of these guys that I had discussions with. On top of that I saw the Irish fans in Korean face paint in Daegu. Many Irish were probably for the US against Korea. I didn't see any in Daegu. Pmannion, an ascerbic but good poster on the Irish board, said he thought that more than 50 per cent of Irish nationals would root for Iran against the U.S. I think this is an exaggeration. But it opened my eyes.

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by bungadiri

I agree, over the long haul we got our share of breaks as well as bad calls.

My recollection is that Frings' hand was down, within a few (say 6-8) inches of his hip, and STILL when the ball squirted out from the tangle of guys at his feet and hit him. He did not react to the ball until after the contact: the ball played him. Based on the "deliberate" factor, I think the non-call is defensible given a strict reading of the Laws, even if it's at odds with general practice. And no way was the ball over the line.



The non-call is very defensible and IMHO, 100% correct. It's only at odds with general practice, because so many referees get the call wrong time and time again.

The non-call on JOB was correct too. JOB had his arm extended and it was pushed up by the Mexican defender. No intent.

Beckenbauer, like Pele, talks out of his arse half the time. He doesn't know the laws of the game, and it's embarrassing for such a highly respected player.

Whether Dallas saw it or not, I've no idea. No way was the ball over the line, as you say.

We didn't get screwed, not by a longshot. We just plain got beat. Many people have strong opinions on this subject without understanding the rules.

[Slash/ED]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
SlashEd. We had a few discussions on the Ireland board prior to your arrival at Big Soccer. I was surprised at how many Irish people, or people of Irish ancestry, rooted against the USMNT. Pmanion was one of these guys that I had discussions with. On top of that I saw the Irish fans in Korean face paint in Daegu. Many Irish were probably for the US against Korea. I didn't see any in Daegu. Pmannion, an ascerbic but good poster on the Irish board, said he thought that more than 50 per cent of Irish nationals would root for Iran against the U.S. I think this is an exaggeration. But it opened my eyes.

About the face paint thing, do you not think it was more to do with them being pro Korea anyway? Why would they pay to goto a match to root against a team that has done nothing to them in their entire history? Even the country has done little to nothing anti Irish in their history. Pmannion was obviously mugged in America or something but the honest truth is most Irish people either cheered for America for having family ties there (Like I do) or treated them like they would Mexico, didn't really care either way, which would be the majoritys view. Those anti America are like any anti American person you would find anywhere in any country.

[VFish]

Why tarnish a glorious run to the Quarter-finals by bitching about refereeing? The players didn’t make this issue, so why should we. There are no conspiracies… there were no vendettas. It just one bad call in tournament filled with them.

Hup USA in 2006!

[thacharger]

Originally posted by VFish
Why tarnish a glorious run to the Quarter-finals by bitching about refereeing? The players didn’t make this issue, so why should we. There are no conspiracies… there were no vendettas. It just one bad call in tournament filled with them.

Hup USA in 2006!

I agree, but it is hard to think what might have been....

We could have beat Korea. We could have beat Brazil.

[M]

Originally posted by thacharger


I agree, but it is hard to think what might have been....

We could have beat Korea. We could have beat Brazil.

"could have" - the most overused and pointless phrase in the game...