Hugh Dallas sends off player for u know what

[sidspaceman]

Really the US was better than Brazil?

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
THE BALL WAS OVER THE LINE!!!!!

It puts the lotion in the basket...

[faizalenu]

1) The ball was not completely over the line.

2) Handling the Ball should not have been called. The call came straight up off of Kahn's glove into Fringes hand.

Stop arguing about it and get over it.

[Nutmeg]

Jesus this thread has gone from terrible to frickin' stupid.

And I do not mean that as a bash on Flannigan or any other poster here. As a whole, you would hope we could come up with something better than this.

Then again, maybe not.

[Jacen McCullough]

This thread is getting just a tad ridiculous. It's making the Clint V Arena threads look civil for christs' sake. Bottom line: It's probably about time for the key people in this thread to agree to disagree. As with any thread that goes as long and gets as heated as this one, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the 2 extremes. For example, I have no idea why Dallas kept on buying the constant German dives. It was embarassingly obvious. I also thought the foul that lead to the goal was a dive. On the flip side, Dallas missed some calls both ways, and I liked the fact that he explained exactly why he was giving a card when he pulled one out. I didn't see that as condescending at all. At the crux of this debate is the handball non call. That's a 50/50 scenario. Sometimes it will be called, sometimes it won't. There is no instant replay in soccer, and that play happened quickly, with alot of bodies in the way. We can't even produce conclusive footage on where the ball was, so how was Dallas supposed to know with the naked eye seeing a play in a split second? These things happen. We played a great game and our players walked off that field with their heads held high and a nation proud of their accomplishments. There is no need to spoil that now by acting like some of the more irrational Italian/Spanish fans. Chill people. It's all good. :)

JMac

[Thomas Flannigan]

FIFA loves it if people say it could have gone either way, I really could not tell where the ball was, the truth lies somewhere in the middle, and so on. That way they can give us another Dallas or Rodolfo Sibrian and the same people will alibi for them no matter how bad the calls are.
Our players did not bitch after the game, which is a good thing. They could not do so anyway because Americans are not allowed to complain about the refs while Oliver Kahn and others are. I congratulated the German fans after the game and wished them well. But we were robbed and the whole world saw it.
Yeah, Dallas explained the cards, in a demeaning fashion. I have never seen cards given (he gave 2) for not forming the wall properly. Three players were suspended. THREE PLAYERS WERE SUSPENDED AND THAT CARRIES OVER INTO THE CONFEDERATIONS CUP. But the jerk still patronized our players like they were 3 years old and needed to have the the rules explained to them.
That game was rigged just like the the games involving Korea. We could have won the World Cup if the game had not been rigged.
I admire the Spanish, Italians and many Germans who say that some of the games were rigged. It is the only way you can stop this kind of corruption.
Oh, I forgot, shucks. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, we can't be sure you know, there is no instant replay.

The truth lies in FIFA's Swiss bank accounts.
Just my opinions.

[flanoverseas]

Originally posted by faizalenu
1) The ball was not completely over the line.

2) Handling the Ball should not have been called. The call came straight up off of Kahn's glove into Fringes hand.

Stop arguing about it and get over it. Handling SHOULD have been called. Go look at the video of which there is one on this thread. He moved his hand forward at the last instant. I explained how to watch it on an earlier post.

Typical big soccer to argue about something you CAN'T see, (ball over line) and ignore something that you can ( his hand moving forward.

[GoDC]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Most of my critics have not tried to cheer on the USMNT of late. The games have been so close to Pennsylvania and other home locales. I know everyone can't afford 200 dollars or more to go to a city and take in a game. But if you plan it can happen, and it is more productive than trying to bait someone on the Internet.
The US WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP!!! We almost did it this time. We had the best team.

So is the question here

1. Did the ball cross the line
2. Is there a FIFA conspiracy against the US
3. Does monster travel to enough US Nat games
4. Was the US the best team in the 2002 WC
5. If Tom knows that everyone can't save money to go to a game but in the next sentence says they can if they plan it, why do we not have 230 million people at every game

I get confused easily these days.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan Just my opinions.
Thomas, a question.

If all this is just opinion, why not write it as such?

"I believe that...It seems to me that...IMO...I think that...." There's all kinds of phrases that you can use.

[MarioKempes]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
That game was rigged just like the the games involving Korea. We could have won the World Cup if the game had not been rigged.



Put the friggen lotion in the basket!

[dark knight]

Originally posted by Jacen McCullough
There is no need to spoil that now by acting like some of the more irrational Italian/Spanish fans. Chill people. It's all good. :)

JMac

Since this thread is all over the place, I'll ask a question I've been wondering about. There has been a lot of talk about how classy the U.S. players have been with the bad calls and how unclassy Italian and Spanish players have been. My question is: how does Spanish and Italian player behavior compare to the '72 U.S. Olympic Basketball team that to this day refuses to accept their silver medals. There was a definite bad call in that game, but the last play of the game - we blew it - should have defended better. Just wondering if people view the tantrum, etc. by the U.S. players as unclassy or justified.

[GoDC]

I also want to point out that this conspiracy against the US goes back to the 94 WC when John Harkes was forced to miss the US-Brazil game due to picking up two yellow cards in the group stage. His second yellow card - Not backing up 10 yards on a free kick quickly enough to suit the referee.

:eek:

[Martin Fischer]

Originally posted by dark knight


Since this thread is all over the place, I'll ask a question I've been wondering about. There has been a lot of talk about how classy the U.S. players have been with the bad calls and how unclassy Italian and Spanish players have been. My question is: how does Spanish and Italian player behavior compare to the '72 U.S. Olympic Basketball team that to this day refuses to accept their silver medals. There was a definite bad call in that game, but the last play of the game - we blew it - should have defended better. Just wondering if people view the tantrum, etc. by the U.S. players as unclassy or justified.

Not really, though I don't blame the Spanish either as the reffing in that game was incompetent bordering on corrupt. The Italian game was a different matter as the ref made on bad call after doing a pretty good job throughout.

[superdave]

Originally posted by dark knight
My question is: how does Spanish and Italian player behavior compare to the '72 U.S. Olympic Basketball team that to this day refuses to accept their silver medals. There was a definite bad call in that game
You're pretty dramatically understating what happened.

A corollary would be if the Italy-SoKo game had gone to PKs, and then, when Italy had had 10 players shoot, they went back to the first player, and the player nailed it. There was a retake, and the player nailed the PK again. But then the CR consulted with some FIFA bureaucrat and said that SoKo could choose an Italian player for the 11th PK, and then the PK was missed. (Or something else ludicrous and contrary to the rules. Sorry I couldn't think of a better example.) Not only was Italy forced to make it 3 times for it to count, but the last (missed) PK was taken in a manner contrary to FIFA rules.

The US-USSR game didn't end on a garden variety bad call. The clowns broke their own rules, and not because of a bang-bang judgment either. It was a considered, deliberate decision.

[dark knight]

Originally posted by superdave

You're pretty dramatically understating what happened.

A corollary would be if the Italy-SoKo game had gone to PKs, and then, when Italy had had 10 players shoot, they went back to the first player, and the player nailed it. There was a retake, and the player nailed the PK again. But then the CR consulted with some FIFA bureaucrat and said that SoKo could choose an Italian player for the 11th PK, and then the PK was missed. (Or something else ludicrous and contrary to the rules. Sorry I couldn't think of a better example.) Not only was Italy forced to make it 3 times for it to count, but the last (missed) PK was taken in a manner contrary to FIFA rules.

The US-USSR game didn't end on a garden variety bad call. The clowns broke their own rules, and not because of a bang-bang judgment either. It was a considered, deliberate decision.

Well, I only half watched the documentary on HBO on this, but I could have sworn that the conclusion was that there was one really bad call with time management, but other decisions were debatable. Many of the players were up in arms about the last play saying they were mugged on the inbound pass, etc., but replays make it look like a legitimate play.

[superdave]

When you say "bad call," that's like a referee missing a block/charge call.

Remember the UNC-Michigan game, when Chris Webber called the timeout they didn't have? Suppose that the referee gave the timeout, and called the technical, but then in the confusion, some NCAA poobah came out and stated that it was all a do-over, and Michigan should have the ball where Webber called the fatal TO.

It was a misapplication of the rules. OK, there was other crap going on, like the Soviets seemingly intentionally injuring an American, and stuff. And this or that bad call. All that crap was nothing out of the ordinary.

What was out of the ordinary and beyond a "bad call" was the misapplication of rules regarding timeouts.

[VFish]

"This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." - Fielding Mellish :D

I promised myself I’d avoid this thread… but Dark_Knight adds an interesting twist.

Personally, I don’t see the correlation between the 2002 WC and the 1972 Olympic basketball incident, which as much about politics as it was inept referring. After the game the Americans filed a protest, which is their right under Olympic rules. During the inquiry both the referee and timekeeper testified on behalf of the Americans and admitted they had erred, but incredulously a 5 man jury sided with the Russians in a 3-2 vote. Not surprisingly, the majority votes came from 3 communist judges. Accepting the silver would have validated this travesty.

[dark knight]

Originally posted by VFish
"This trial is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham." - Fielding Mellish :D

I promised myself I’d avoid this thread… but Dark_Knight adds an interesting twist.

Personally, I don’t see the correlation between the 2002 WC and the 1972 Olympic basketball incident, which as much about politics as it was inept referring. After the game the Americans filed a protest, which is their right under Olympic rules. During the inquiry both the referee and timekeeper testified on behalf of the Americans and admitted they had erred, but incredulously a 5 man jury sided with the Russians in a 3-2 vote. Not surprisingly, the majority votes came from 3 communist judges. Accepting the silver would have validated this travesty.

Anything to break up that infinite loop we had going there...

The question is - shouldn't the Americans have refused to play the final play? Couldn't you argue that because they played the last play they agreed to whatever outcome came out of it? Maybe they played the final play because they never thought that they would lose, but once they did it seems like they should accept the consequences.

[monster]

Originally posted by dark knight


Anything to break up that infinite loop we had going there...

The question is - shouldn't the Americans have refused to play the final play? Couldn't you argue that because they played the last play they agreed to whatever outcome came out of it? Maybe they played the final play because they never thought that they would lose, but once they did it seems like they should accept the consequences.

I got a chance to review the tape of that game this morning, and it's kinda grainy because of the B&W, but I swear that's Hugh Dallas playing off guard for the Soviets.

[VFish]

Originally posted by dark knight
The question is - shouldn't the Americans have refused to play the final play? Couldn't you argue that because they played the last play they agreed to whatever outcome came out of it? Maybe they played the final play because they never thought that they would lose, but once they did it seems like they should accept the consequences.
Actually, they replayed final 3 seconds 3 times!

Basketball officials always seem to be resetting the clock, so I don’t see how they could simply have walked off the court. For me, the crux of the issue is why were the Russians given a third attempt to win the game?