Hugh Dallas sends off player for u know what

[John Galt]

http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2002/countries/story/0,11936,742813,00.html

Found the quote. Judge for yourself. Here's some more excerpts:

The idea of linesmen from Malaysia and the Maldives being on the take in South Korea should be too far-fetched for even the most ardent Azzurri fan.

Fifa's director of communications, Keith Cooper, was more direct in his denial, dismissing the notion of corruption as "pathetic juvenile hogwash". "Conspiracy theories crop up in all walks of life," he continued, "and in 99% of cases they are unfounded. This one is one of the 99%."

The alleged superpowers of football's first world are having a difficult enough time accepting South Korea and Turkey as semi-finalists alongside Brazil and Germany, without being given the opportunity to wail about underhand plots.

[dark knight]

Originally posted by MarioKempes


It puts the lotion in the basket....

...or it gets the hose again.

(BTW - It ain't me doing the pm'ing...and I don't covet what I see everyday around here.)

[SoFla Metro]

The real problem (at least as I understand it) with the Assistant Referees was that they are usually center referees during their league season. Rather than FIFA choosing the best Assistant Referees, they're choosing the next-best referees.

In some cases, these guys haven't run the touchline in years in a competitive match.

[Thomas Flannigan]

Damage control for the ref scandal was the second item on the FIFA home page, more than 2 months after the games in question. The caption of the photo says that the handball was inches from the goal line. The ball went completely over the goal after the deflection.
The world is so football-mad FIFA probably thinks it can get away with anything, but they must be running scared at a certain level to continue the propaganda for so long. People will not pay money to watch rigged games. Much of the world thinks some of the games at the Cup were rigged.
Dark Night, I was not referring to you. You have always been pretty decent on this and other BBs.

[SoFla Metro]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Damage control for the ref scandal was the second item on the FIFA home page, more than 2 months after the games in question. The caption of the photo says that the handball was inches from the goal line. The ball went completely over the goal after the deflection.
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As has been pointed out, if you were seated where you say you were seated, it would have been impossible for you to get a definitive look at this.

[monster]

Originally posted by dark knight


...or it gets the hose again.

(BTW - It ain't me doing the pm'ing...and I don't covet what I see everyday around here.)

It was me. I figured it's better to take my problems with Thomas' loose interpretation of facts to PM-land. He wants it public. I'll defer to DK and keep it to a minimum.

So can we all agree that none of these pictures or videos show any definitive proof as to the location of the ball in relation to the line? None were stationed along the line. And give than Dallas was 20 yards away and had as many as four players in front of him when the handball happened, I think we should chalk it all up to a quick decision that was made poorly instead of a grand conspiracy.

P.S. Tom - that wasn't even close to belligerent (that's the proper spelling, BTW, in case you ever need to use that to charge someone with harassment or anything like that) :D

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by SoFla Metro

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As has been pointed out, if you were seated where you say you were seated, it would have been impossible for you to get a definitive look at this.

The laws governing the spatial-temporal continuum are much different on Planet Flannigan. I'm surprised you don't know that by now.

[flanoverseas]

Originally posted by VFish
Portugal was upset about playing two men down against the Koreans. Of course the underachieving Portuguese have a long history of bellyaching about refereeing. I know about that, but I don't figure anyone would complain for Portugal--both of those ejections were very well deserved.

I thought maybe he had another beef.

[Thomas Flannigan]

I am wrong about a lot of things in life but I try to be scrupulously honest. That is why endless TOS violations calling me a liar are so curious. Now one of the gang says I was not where I said I was at the game. If you go to the Emerald City Gazette website, photos, and go to the Germany game there are two video clips of the American section raising the flag and singing the national anthem. You can see me in the front row, dressed like Uncle Sam. My wife, holding our little daughter wrapped in a small American flag, stands next to me.
You guys really should go to an USMNT game and cheer instead of calling me an insane person here. We need all the help we can get.
Everybody around me thought that the ball was over the line. That is why the cheering section went wild. There were many plays at the Cup where I did not have a good view of the play so I cannot give my own opinion on them. This call, as well as the BS dive and foul that led to the only German goal, were right in front of me.
THE BALL WAS OVER THE LINE!!!!!

[superdave]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
The ball went completely over the goal after the deflection.
Why do you keep writing this?

And if you're right, then why are you posting in a thread about Hugh Dallas? It's not his responsibility to make such calls, it's the AR's.

[superdave]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan This call, as well as the BS dive and foul that led to the only German goal, were [b]right in front of me.
THE BALL WAS OVER THE LINE!!!!!
That's the problem, Thomas. It was right in front of you, so you had no angle to judge whether or not the ball went over the line or not.

[Thomas Flannigan]

This is one of the problems with American soccer. The gang of people who insult and hound me whenever I post here never seem to go to games, and always side with FIFA when there is a controversy surrounding the refs. No matter how outrageous Hugh Dallas or Rodolofo Sibrian are they are defended like the last beer in the refrigerator.
A few people here have said Dallas did a fine job. i think that is absolutely outrageous but I am not going to insult that person or question their sanity.
Maybe if you would go to some games you would feel the passion and help our national cause rather than siding with the Germans and Mexicans all the time.

[M]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Maybe if you would go to some games you would feel the passion and help our national cause rather than siding with the Germans and Mexicans all the time.

Maybe some people don't let passion get in the way of reality?

[John Galt]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
Maybe if you would go to some games you would feel the passion and help our national cause rather than siding with the Germans and Mexicans all the time.
I think I've been pretty patient with you so far, but if you're going to pretend to be on the "I don't insult people" high road you better apologize for that.

Look, Thomas, I'd even like to believe you that the ball crossed the line. I'm willing to accept that the issue is in doubt. But you state your subjective perception as if it is objective fact, without relying on any other evidence. Even when I want to agree with you, I find your logic so disturbingly insufficient that it's hard to take up your cause. It's an objective fact that you don't KNOW anymore than any of us whether the ball went over. Why can't you just say, "I think it did" and I'd agree with you instead of acting like you have some possession of innate truth the rest of the world is not privy to and that you are not inclined to share. Instead, you pretend to be the honest and indignant one calling into question my passion and loyalty to the U.S. team? Be ashamed. And don't ever say you don't resort to insults ever again.

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by Thomas Flannigan
and always side with FIFA when there is a controversy surrounding the refs. No matter how outrageous Hugh Dallas or Rodolofo Sibrian are they are defended like the last beer in the refrigerator.


This is getting ugly.

Here's the problem: You have convinced no one that Dallas or Sibrian was involved in a FIFA fix, nor have you convinced anyone that there is in fact a FIFA conspiracy, yet you continually INSIST that such facts are true. You rarely introduce evidence to your arguments, and when people challenge the validity of the evidence you do occasionally introduce, you either ignore their objections, or introduce new "evidence," or respond by implying that your opponents are themselves complicit in the Great FIFA Conspiracy Cover-up. Then you act wounded when people respond to YOUR OWN unethical debating practices with ad hominum attacks, as if you haven't already insulted the intelligence of all the people who are trying to get you to debate these issues in a conventional manner.

It's getting old. I'm wondering if you're not actually enjoying pulling everyone's chain, or, God forbid, if your meds need to be adjusted.

[Thomas Flannigan]

We have had the same argument many times and the same people gather to insult me and ALWAYS side with the foreigner. They NEVER defend the U.S. team no matter what Rodolfo Sibrian or Hugh Dallas does to us.
I would love to put you guys in a room full of Germans and make the argument that you can stand on the goal line with your arms outstretched and argue that it was not deliberate if you deflect a ball at the line with your hand. They would laugh you out of court. Beckenbauer made the point better than I. He is a man of few words.

[flanoverseas]

I say we get back to the intent argument.

[Bajoro]

Originally posted by M


Maybe some people don't let passion get in the way of reality?

SEE!!??!!?? That's the problem around here.

Look, there's no games anytime soon. There's no news. There's nothing.

Except some pent-up passion.

I agree with Thomas in one respect (and in doing so, I put words in his mouth):

This is a perfectly good time to get BITTER. It keeps our passion sharp. And it's fun!

Damn Hugh Dallas for not being on top of the call. Damn him for lying about seeing it. Damn him for the ridiculous call against Eddie Lewis that led to the German goal. Damn the out-of-position linesman for calling Donovan offside when he was held on by two (count 'em) two German defenders.

Being bitter doesn't diminish anything. It doesn't mean we didn't enjoy every minute of the World Cup. Far from it, it was so exciting and absorbing I (and most of you) didn't sleep well for the month of the Cup and a month afterwards.

Our team was sleazed. And it's our team. So if I want to say "the ref sucked", big deal. If Thomas wants to say "looks like a conspiracy," big deal.

Hey you guys, don't rain on our parade of bitterness -- this is really the first time in US soccer history when we've had the right, the privilege, of feeling righteously bitter. How cool is that?

Out of bitterness will come resolve. Out of resolve will come something better, like kicking some Euro butt in '06.

This is perversely fun. Why are you conspiring against it?

[monster]

This is why you are regarded as the town drunk, Tom. By criticizing the way other people choose to spend their money or degrading people for not having the same means as you and calling them bad Americans, you cast yourself as a holier than thou sort who would rather tear down other Americans and blame everything on some backroom conspiracy than admit that life just isn't fair sometimes.

So sue me for choosing to keep my small child at home instead of carting her hither and yon to spend money that would better go toward paying the electric bill and keeping a roof over our head.

Was the ball handled? In my opinion, yes.

Did the ball cross the line? We'll never know because the camera angles are inconclusive and, frankly, I've watched enough sporting events from enough angles to know that the fan often has the worst perspective when judging depth of field, etc.

Did Hugh Dallas make a bad call? Yes.

Does a bad call at a crucial time of the game indicate a conspiracy? Absolutely not.

I'm sorry if it bothers you that I have enough in my life to go to sleep content knowing that we played our asses off and one bad call combined with great goaltending by Kahn kept us from the semifinals. And keep trotting out the thread you started before the crash where you clearly stated you believed a conspiracy was awash to boot the US out after the group stage. The Final Eight does not an early exit make.

But don't you dare make value judgements on how I choose to spend my hard-earned money and call me a bad person for not putting myself in debt just to conform to your opinion of a good American.

You may be at the front of the line when it comes to holding the flag at MNT games, but, you are at the back of the line when it comes to class and dignity in representing our country thanks to your constant blind criticism of other American fans, foreign officials and anyone who doesn't subscribe to your narrow view of the world.

[Thomas Flannigan]

Most of my critics have not tried to cheer on the USMNT of late. The games have been so close to Pennsylvania and other home locales. I know everyone can't afford 200 dollars or more to go to a city and take in a game. But if you plan it can happen, and it is more productive than trying to bait someone on the Internet.
The US WILL WIN THE WORLD CUP!!! We almost did it this time. We had the best team.