Developmental Players

[ChrisE]

Developmental players don't get a whole lot of attention. Sure, this year a few, Nat Borchers and Jamil Walker, made something of an impression, but for the most part, guys like Jack Jewsbury, Roger Levesque and Nick Walls don't get a lot of attention. Obviously, people would rather be talking about Memo Gonzalez or Nate Jaqua or David Stokes, which is perfectly understandable. Nevertheless, I think the developmental players are going to be an important part of MLS's future.


In 2002, the first year of its existence, there were 14 rostered developemental players. Of these, 11 actually saw playing time, accounting for 2858 minutes and 3 points. Admittedly, not too impressive.

In 2003, 13 of those 14 players remained on MLS rosters (Alex Bengard ended up playing 1900+ minutes for the Seattle Sounders). They ended up totalling an impressive 9022 minutes and registering 31 points. Their minutes were distributed like this:


2002 2003
0 3 2
1 to 99 5 1
100-500 4 2
500+ 2 8


This year, there were 24 new developmental players, as MLS enlarged their protected rosters, to add to 8 holdovers from 2002. 5 of these players were goalies added at MLS's insistence, who ended up logging a total of 9 minutes, so I'm going to ignore them. The remaining 24 players logged 4090 and 10 points, numbers that look like impressive increases over last year until it's noted that Nat Borchers accounted for more than half of those minutes, and Jamil Walker registered 80% of the points.

Their minutes were distributed as such:


2003
0 5
1 to 99 11
100-500 6
500+ 4


They don't look like a huge success, but I think the most impressive stat for developmental players comes from the playoffs. A player who gets significant minutes in the playoffs has clearly made an impact on the team, and 8 developmental players (out of 34 total) ended up playing significant roles with their playoff teams. The current or former developmental players to play in the playoffs were:


GS Min Pts.
Arnaud, Davy 36 0
Leitch, Chris 2 167 0
Leonard, Marshall 3 281 0
Moreno, Alejandro 2 186 1
Namoff, Bryan 1 90 0
Nugent, Mike 34 0
Roner, Chris 1 136 2
Bagley, Chris 3 0
Borchers, Nat 2 180 2
Torres, Arturo 2 179 0
Walker, Jamil 3 227 4
16 16 9


So that's it for now. I imagine I'll use this thread to monitor the progress of developmental players through this year.

[ChrisE]

I forgot, here's a list of all the former or current developmental players, as well as their roster status. D= developmental, F=full, blank players aren't in the league.


2002 2003
Arnaud, Davy D F
Behncke, Matt D D
Bengard, Alex D
Brunt, Chris D D
Frias, Tony D D
Goode, Taly D D
Leitch, Chris D F
Leonard, Marshall D D
Matteo, Jeff D D
Moreno, Alejandro D F
Namoff, Bryan D F
Nugent, Mike D D
Ochoa, Jesus D D
Roner, Chris D F
Arena, Kenny D
Bagley, Chris D
Blake, Alex D
Borchers, Nat D
Foss, Byron D
Geddes, Jorge D
Gomez, Herculez D
Graham, Taylor D
Jewsbury, Jack D
Kante, Ibrahim D
Levesque, Roger D
Murriagui, Andres D
Perea, Trevor D
Piserchio, Michael D
Ritch, Michael D
Salyer, Philip D
Saunders, Josh D
Singer, Kyle D
Thompson, Scot D
Torres, Arturo D
Traeger, Jake D
Ueltschey, Michael D
Walker, Jamil D
Walls, Nick D

[beineke]

Originally posted by ChrisE
I forgot, here's a list of all the former or current developmental players, as well as their roster status. D= developmental, F=full, blank players aren't in the league.


I suspect that this info will be very difficult to track. A few tidbits from memory, so none are guaranteed true ...

1) Jeff Moore joined the Metros as a DP.
2) Johannes Maliza spent much of the 2003 season as a DP with the Quakes.
3) Levesque was signed to a full contract, but the league temporarily changed him to roster-protected DP status after he was injured. Once he got healthy, he was returned to full roster status.
4) Saunders was given full roster status for at least the start of the 2003 season. He might've been demoted later.
5) Are you sure that Namoff was a DP? How about some of those revolving-door Metros like Diop, Forko, and Sheppard?
6) Was Clint Baumstark a DP or a P-40? Was Spiteri signed as a DP, too?

BTW, It might be interesting to track the four-year college DP's separately from the others, like Ochoa, Arnaud, and Gomez.

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by beineke
I suspect that this info will be very difficult to track. A few tidbits from memory, so none are guaranteed true ...

1) Jeff Moore joined the Metros as a DP.
2) Johannes Maliza spent much of the 2003 season as a DP with the Quakes.
3) Levesque was signed to a full contract, but the league temporarily changed him to roster-protected DP status after he was injured. Once he got healthy, he was returned to full roster status.
4) Saunders was given full roster status for at least the start of the 2003 season. He might've been demoted later.
5) Are you sure that Namoff was a DP? How about some of those revolving-door Metros like Diop, Forko, and Sheppard?
6) Was Clint Baumstark a DP or a P-40? Was Spiteri signed as a DP, too?


Regarding Namoff, yeah, I'm pretty sure (I was surprised too). I compiled the list from an MLSnet press release, but here's (http://www.coloradorapids.com/site/goal.asp?cid=223&nav=1)something from the Rapids referring to him as a d.p. Actually, I found the list, here (http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/weekly0820.html), which is dated August 20, 2002. I doubt, once I catch up with the rest of the old d.p.'s, this will be that hard to track.

Maliza, yeah, I admit I missed him. He was, however, only on the roster briefly as an injury replacement. I'll add him anyway, of course.

Saunders is currently listed as a DP on the mlsnet rosters page, so he stays. Same with Levesque, though we'll see what happens with him.

BTW, It might be interesting to track the four-year college DP's separately from the others, like Ochoa, Arnaud, and Gomez.

This is a good idea, though I'm not sure there are enough of them to merit it. (Are you sure Arnaud wasn't at West Texas A&M for four years, he's currently 23 and a half?)

I've got to go now, I'll try to look up Baumstark and the Metros later. Regardless, it's less important to me to track the ones who fail (which will presumably be the majority) as it is the ones who succeed.

[beineke]

Originally posted by ChrisE

Saunders is currently listed as a DP on the mlsnet rosters page, so he stays. Same with Levesque, though we'll see what happens with him.


-- The Quakes site lists Levesque as a full roster player, with Saunders and Walker as DP's.

-- I'm quite sure that Arnaud left West Texas early.

-- The reason I think it's interesting to track Arnaud and the others is that the future of MLS depends heavily on developing this kind of player. Major college soccer has been hamstrung by Title IX, and Project-40 is too expensive for widescale development. If the league is going to grow, talent must come from other sources, so hopefully there are going to be quite a few more Jesus Ochoas down the road.

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by beineke
-- The Quakes site lists Levesque as a full roster player, with Saunders and Walker as DP's.

Well, I guess there's some confusion; although the roster listing says he's a developmental player, his bio (http://www.sjearthquakes.com/the_team/rogerlevesque.htm) says he was a developmental player last year, as does this (http://www.sjearthquakes.com/press_box/021803weekly.htm) press release. Unless you have a convincing argument for why he shouldn't be included, I'm going to try to be as generous with the list as possible, and include him.

On a sidenote, Jeff Moore's bio (http://www.mlsnet.com/bios/jeff_moore.html) lists him, as well as Birahim Diop, as developmental players. So I'll include them, and leave out Forko and Sheppard until (unless) somebody finds something.

I can't find anything on Baumstark's status, but since he wasn't a P-40 in the draft this year, I think it's safe to put him on the developmental list. However, I was planning on separating GK's from field players, since GK's have about 0 prospect of winning a spot, and seem to be generally filler in case of injuries, so I don't think it matters much.

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by beineke


-- I'm quite sure that Arnaud left West Texas early.

-- The reason I think it's interesting to track Arnaud and the others is that the future of MLS depends heavily on developing this kind of player. Major college soccer has been hamstrung by Title IX, and Project-40 is too expensive for widescale development. If the league is going to grow, talent must come from other sources, so hopefully there are going to be quite a few more Jesus Ochoas down the road.

I don't really agree with you here. Of the three players, Arnaud, Ochoa, and Gomez, only one, Arnaud, seems to have left college early intent on playing in MLS. Ochoa, on the other hand, spent a year with the Timbers before joining LA. Gomez made it into the league from the D3 San Diego Gauchos. Gomez and Ochoa were never drafted, so it's not like the NBA or MLB with players 'declaring early.'

I don't know if I agree with you about these kinds of players necessarily being important to MLS right now. For the foreseeable future, I would imagine that pretty much all players leaving college early will either be (1) going Pro-40 or (2) going to Europe; there's just not much reason for a guy to come out, with a slim chance of making a roster, for $1100 a month.


As is, the MLS has problems identifying all of the available talent coming out of colleges (Nat Borchers, for example). Since I don't think it's very likely that underclassmen are going to start declaring en masse, the best way for MLS to maintain a steady stream of talent as it grows is to make sure that they're acquiring all (or at least the vast majority) of the talent leaving college and entering the player pool. The best (cheapest and most effective) way to do this, in my opinion, would be to dramatically increase the developmental slots available, making it far harder for talented (or promising) players to fall through the cracks.

[beineke]

Originally posted by ChrisE
I don't really agree with you here. Of the three players, Arnaud, Ochoa, and Gomez, only one, Arnaud, seems to have left college early intent on playing in MLS. Ochoa, on the other hand, spent a year with the Timbers before joining LA. Gomez made it into the league from the D3 San Diego Gauchos. Gomez and Ochoa were never drafted, so it's not like the NBA or MLB with players 'declaring early.'

Not sure where you're going with this. The point is that they've followed a different development route, and MLS was part of that. They never played DI soccer at all. IIRC, neither did guys like Howard, Burciaga, Perez, F. Gomez, Corrales, and Buddle. But these days, a kid like Ramiro Corrales couldn't walk straight onto an MLS roster, and he'd have a hard time getting a P-40 deal. That's where the DP program can potentially make an impact.

In most of the country, it is extraordinarily difficult to get a full-ride scholarship to a school that plays good soccer. If a guy wants to develop, he's not going to do it at State Fair Community College, Vanguard College, or West Texas A&M. He needs to get into a pro system.

People like to talk about Nat Borchers as though he proves that there's all this polished collegiate talent out there waiting to be discovered. Borchers was MVP of one of the better conferences in college soccer, and he started regularly for a PDL team that reached the championship game. MLS teams may have mis-judged his ability to play at a higher level, but it's not as if there are many prospects like him.

[ChrisE]

Originally posted by beineke
Not sure where you're going with this. The point is that they've followed a different development route, and MLS was part of that. They never played DI soccer at all. IIRC, neither did guys like Howard, Burciaga, Perez, F. Gomez, Corrales, and Buddle. But these days, a kid like Ramiro Corrales couldn't walk straight onto an MLS roster, and he'd have a hard time getting a P-40 deal. That's where the DP program can potentially make an impact.

In most of the country, it is extraordinarily difficult to get a full-ride scholarship to a school that plays good soccer. If a guy wants to develop, he's not going to do it at State Fair Community College, Vanguard College, or West Texas A&M. He needs to get into a pro system.

I just don't think that there are going to be enough of them to have much of an effect on MLS. Yes, it would be an interesting trend to watch, but, while MLS is offering $1100 a month for developmental players, I don't think a whole lot of guys will be foregoing a college degree to pursue MLS. If there were any indication that this were some kind of emerging trend, that more and more guys like Ochoa or Gomez or Arnaud were joining MLS, I might think different. But only 3 out of 34 developmental players haven't graduated college, and there's not much indication this year is going to provide any kind of a boost.




People like to talk about Nat Borchers as though he proves that there's all this polished collegiate talent out there waiting to be discovered. Borchers was MVP of one of the better conferences in college soccer, and he started regularly for a PDL team that reached the championship game. MLS teams may have mis-judged his ability to play at a higher level, but it's not as if there are many prospects like him.

I agree, there probably aren't a whole lot of prospects like Borchers out there, who in their sophomore year are going to be their team's best defender (or midfielder, or forward). But I don't think it's unreasonable to think there's more than a couple Jamil Walker's, or Chris Leitch's, or Davy Arnaud's, or Ryan Trout's, that we're either not identifying, or not giving the chance to succeed. Guys who, although they may never be huge stars, and though they'll probably never go to Europe, can be solid, cheap role players.

[beineke]

Sure, the DP program is mainly stocked with college boys right now (though I think Birahim Diop is one for the other category). But I disagree that the small stipend will necessarily prevent talented players from signing up. IIRC, Rodrigo Faria spent a year with the Metros reserves before they drafted him. He left college without finishing, then went from being unpaid to winning Rookie of the Year.

[ChrisE]

Well, if we've got that settled, the updated list looks like this:


2002 Min 2003 Min
Arnaud, Davy D 43 F 818 23.34
Behncke, Matt D 190 D 827 23.68
Bengard, Alex D 26 24.62
Brunt, Chris D 158 D 166 23.82
Diop, Birahim D 228 24.66
Frias, Tony D 0 D 0 23.94
Leitch, Chris D 989 F 993 24.57
Leonard, Marshall D 0 D 550 22.85
Matteo, Jeff D 14 D 286 23.22
Moore, Jeff D 1482 23.78
Moreno, Alejandro D 561 F 1117 24.30
Namoff, Bryan D 442 F 1665 24.41
Nugent, Mike D 54 D 90 23.71
Ochoa, Jesus D 352 D 571 22.04
Roner, Chris D 29 F 1939 23.64
Arena, Kenny D 458 22.72
Bagley, Chris D 59 23.43
Blake, Alex D 24 23.03
Borchers, Nat D 2101 22.54
Gomez, Herculez D 5 21.55
Graham, Taylor D 10 23.40
Jewsbury, Jack D 61 22.54
Kante, Ibrahim D 65 22.27
Levesque, Roger D 43 22.76
Murriagui, Andres D 0 22.68
Perea, Trevor D 38 22.19
Piserchio, Michael D 0 23.33
Ritch, Michael D 21 22.50
Salyer, Philip D 491 21.99
Saunders, Josh D 0 22.65
Thompson, Scot D 0 22.71
Torres, Arturo D 335 22.87
Traeger, Jake D 12 23.53
Walker, Jamil D 365 22.51
Walls, Nick D 0 22.57
Total 4568 13110

Goode, Taly D 0 D 0 25.17
Baumstark, Clint D 100 20.80
Foss, Byron D 0 24.05
Geddes, Jorge D 0 23.53
Singer, Kyle D 9 23.22
Ueltschey, Michael D 0 23.53

Arnaud, Davy D 43 F 818 23.34
Diop, Birahim D 228 24.66
Ochoa, Jesus D 352 D 571 22.04
Baumstark, Clint D 100 20.80
Gomez, Herculez D 5 21.55
Total 5220 20740


According to MLS, developmental players have to be 23 or younger throughout the season. It seems like they gave teams some leeway with the GK's, so here are the field players who will be eligible to be d.p.'s next year:


Torres, Arturo D 335 22.87
Leonard, Marshall D 0 D 550 22.85
Levesque, Roger D 43 22.76
Arena, Kenny D 458 22.72
Thompson, Scot D 0 22.71
Murriagui, Andres D 0 22.68
Walls, Nick D 0 22.57
Borchers, Nat D 2101 22.54
Jewsbury, Jack D 61 22.54
Walker, Jamil D 365 22.51
Ritch, Michael D 21 22.50
Kante, Ibrahim D 65 22.27
Perea, Trevor D 38 22.19
Ochoa, Jesus D 352 D 571 22.04
Salyer, Philip D 491 21.99
Gomez, Herculez D 5 21.55

[beineke]

Before I let it go, here are the non-four-year college DP's I see: Arnaud, Diop, Frias, Ochoa, Gomez, Kante, and Salyer. That's 7 out of 35, not many, but a big enough group to be worth following. In addition, your age calculations show that this group includes 4 of the 5 youngest Development Players, meaning that this category of player is demographically different from the wider pool.

[ChrisE]

Since I'm bored, some updates:

Of the seven 'irregular' DP's beineke (Arnaud, Diop, Frias, Ochoa, Gomez, Kante, and Salyer) listed, five are out of the league, two are full rostered players, and both started their season opener. Ochoa is apparently playing in Mexico, Gomez is in the PSL, I have no idea about the others.

Updates by year:

The 2002 class brought in 14 developmental players, who have all by now passed the permitted DP age. 7 are now full rostered players, 6 are out of the league, and it seems Mike Nugent has been granted a reprieve (although the Metros roster is rather murky). Of the six who are out of the league, 3 have landed in the A-league (Bengard, Port.; Brunt, Minn.; Matteo, Minn.), and three are missing (Frias, Goode, Ochoa).

Of the 8 in MLS, 4 started opening day (Arnaud, Behncke, Leitch, Namoff), two look to get significant minutes (Leonard, Moreno), one's injured (Roner), and one's Mike Nugent.

Of the 25 developmental players brought in for 2003, only 13 remain in the league, 9 as developmental players, 4 as full. Of the 12 that are gone, I counted 5 that landed in the USL: Bagley (Charleston), Blake (Rochester), Gomez (San Diego), Rosenband (Charleston), and Saunders (Portland).

Of the full rostered players, 3 (Borchers, Salyer, Torres) started, 1 (Walker) still hasn't gotten any minutes. Of the remaining DP's, none has yet played any minutes.

2004 brought in 18 new developmental players (or so, MLS doesn't make counting them easy). Here they are:


Aloisi, Chris
Cila, Jordan
Clanton, Denny
Detter, Justin
Dombroski, Tighe
Erush, Michael
Hesmer, Will
Maurin, Ty
Parke, Jeff
Perkins, Troy
Pickens, Matt
Pilarski, Ian
Sullivan, Gary
Sutton, Jamal
Wells, Zach
Vercollone, Luke
Brilliant, Felix
Dorman, Andy


Sullivan and Parke have gotten minutes, although I'm unsure Parke didn't earn a full contract.

[ChrisE]

People like to talk about Nat Borchers as though he proves that there's all this polished collegiate talent out there waiting to be discovered. Borchers was MVP of one of the better conferences in college soccer, and he started regularly for a PDL team that reached the championship game. MLS teams may have mis-judged his ability to play at a higher level, but it's not as if there are many prospects like him.


Dredging up comments from months ago, I still don't agree with beineke here, and I'm going to take as my new example Jeff Parke (and I'll mention Gary Sullivan). Parke didn't play in the PDL last year. He wasn't the MVP for one of the better conferences in college soccer. In fact, he wasn't even MVP of his conference, Colonial Athletic Association. In fact, and this really baffles me, he was neither first nor second team All-CAA. Does one Jeff Parke prove a lot? No. But I think it should be worrisome that coaches are picking up some defenders who are at least around MLS quality (and Metro fans are quite excited about Parke) from seemingly nowhere. I think, at least, we need a larger draft, but more importantly we need larger rosters.

[numerista]

Dredging up comments from months ago, I still don't agree with beineke here, and I'm going to take as my new example Jeff Parke (and I'll mention Gary Sullivan). Parke didn't play in the PDL last year. He wasn't the MVP for one of the better conferences in college soccer. In fact, he wasn't even MVP of his conference, Colonial Athletic Association. In fact, and this really baffles me, he was neither first nor second team All-CAA. Does one Jeff Parke prove a lot? No. But I think it should be worrisome that coaches are picking up some defenders who are at least around MLS quality (and Metro fans are quite excited about Parke) from seemingly nowhere. I think, at least, we need a larger draft, but more importantly we need larger rosters.

I'd be perfectly happy to concede this point, esp. as it would sharpen my axe about the importance of having as many college soccer programs as possible.

I think that the emergence of Parke is a good sign. Still, I'll remind you that the Metros started Jake LeBlanc on opening day 2003 and Sam Forko on opening day 2002 ... and Jeff Moore played quite a bit that year, too. I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude about whether Parke is just another stopgap. From what I've seen, I've been more impressed with Sullivan, who was recognized as a star in his conference.

I should also add that 2004 marks a major step back for non-traditional development players. Only Arnaud seems to be making headway.

[numerista]

I should also add that 2004 marks a major step back for non-traditional development players. Only Arnaud seems to be making headway.

Looks like ChrisE mentioned this already ... incidentally, Ochoa is on a year-long loan to one of the top teams in Mexico's second level, but he doesn't seem to have cracked the line-up ... it's a safe bet that he'll be on an expansion team next year. Also, I think I saw that Frias is in Portugal's second division, and that Ibrahim Kante is with an indoor team in Baltimore. Scary the things that stick in my head.

[ChrisE]

Looks like ChrisE mentioned this already ... incidentally, Ochoa is on a year-long loan to one of the top teams in Mexico's second level, but he doesn't seem to have cracked the line-up ... it's a safe bet that he'll be on an expansion team next year. Also, I think I saw that Frias is in Portugal's second division, and that Ibrahim Kante is with an indoor team in Baltimore. Scary the things that stick in my head.

Yeah. I checked up on Kante and yes, he's with the Blast, I'm going to trust you on Frias; where did you hear that Ochoa was on loan? It seems that would be a first for MLS (a loan to a non-US league), and I can't seem to find anything on it - it seems mighty strange for the Galaxy to not list him on their roster if he's still under contract.

by the way, it seems that Mike Nugent just retired, leaving us with an even 7-7 split from the 2002 class.

[numerista]

Yeah. I checked up on Kante and yes, he's with the Blast, I'm going to trust you on Frias; where did you hear that Ochoa was on loan?

For Frias, a search of bigsoccer will come up with as much as I know. For Ochoa, here's a link (in Spanish)...
www.lagartosdetabasco.com.mx/nota.php?nid=3377

There are actually many cases of MLS loaning players abroad (e.g. Graziani, Zambrano). It's accepting players on loan that has been rare.

[swedcrip34]

If a team signs an undrafted player to a developmental deal (dev discoveries are unlimited) and then later promotes him to the full 18 man roster, does that count then as one of the teams 2-3 discovery options for the year? does it matter if he is signed preseason or during a previous season? Take for instance Arnaud, Jewbury (and a few other cases).

[ChrisE]

If a team signs an undrafted player to a developmental deal (dev discoveries are unlimited) and then later promotes him to the full 18 man roster, does that count then as one of the teams 2-3 discovery options for the year? does it matter if he is signed preseason or during a previous season? Take for instance Arnaud, Jewbury (and a few other cases).

From everything I've seen, that doesn't count as a discovery option. It's happened a whole lot (more often between seasons than during them), and there's never been mention of anything like that. However, I don't believe MLS has explicit rules on that subject.

(The only two players I can think of off-hand who were promoted mid-season were Chris Brunt and Chris Leitch, but I guess you might know better than me - I think MLS just lets the contracts run out now.)

(You can still get old MLS headlines by doing a google search, and then using their cache; e.g.:
here (http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:6tuP5Xijhd4J:www.mlsnet.com/content/02/clb0820leitch.html+chris+brunt+mlsnet+developmental&hl=en))