Drop ball?

[kygunner]

I havent seen a drop ball for years, except when a player is injured and they do the token drop. This weekend in English Premiership games I saw 2 of them for fouls commited simultaneously. Coincidence or was there an issue brought up to officials to drop the ball more.

[faizalenu]

Drop Balls are rare at higher levels of play, generally there is only two time that you give a drop ball:
1) If you stop restart the game for an injury.
2) If you stop and restart the game to administer a card (very rare since the referee has the discretion to give a card at the next stoppage.)

It is kind of chicken to give a drop ball for simultaneous fouls because you have discretion to give it to the more severe foul/offense and it destroys the flow of the game.

[billf]

Can you describe the situation in more detail? We're generally told in the US to choose a direction and not to drop the ball in a situation like that. If there are two simutaneous fouls, you could pick the more severe or say something acknowleging that you saw both fouls, but allow play to continue. It's all up to the wisdow of the referee though. If he saw a benefit to doing that, then I'm sure the referee at that level could sell his decision. I'd guess there was a game management reason for doing it, but the same could (theoretically) be accomplished by letting the game continue.

[billf]

Originally posted by faizalenu
Drop Balls are rare at higher levels of play, generally there is only two time that you give a drop ball:
1) If you stop restart the game for an injury.
2) If you stop and restart the game to administer a card (very rare since the referee has the discretion to give a card at the next stoppage.)

It is kind of chicken to give a drop ball for simultaneous fouls because you have discretion to give it to the more severe foul/offense and it destroys the flow of the game.

You never, ever, drop the ball after you stop play to administer a caution. If you were to stop play to issue a caution for dissent, the correct restart would be an IFK where the offense occured unless you stopped play for an offense punishible by a DFK. In that case, you'd restart with DFK at the spot of the foul.

[IASocFan]

If you discover a fight behind your back between opposing players and with the help of your assistants couldn't determine who started it, then the proper restart would be a drop ball after sending the two off. I've had to do this. (Fortunately only once.)

[MassachusettsRef]

Originally posted by IASocFan
If you discover a fight behind your back between opposing players and with the help of your assistants couldn't determine who started it, then the proper restart would be a drop ball after sending the two off. I've had to do this. (Fortunately only once.) I don't know if that's 'proper', though it would certainly be just.

Inherently, you or your AR would have seen a 'first' punch when you saw the altercation (even if it was the 3rd or 4th punch). That punch--a strike--is the first foul you saw. The 'proper' thing to do is to give the DFK to the other team, as, that punch is the immediate reason that you are whistling to stop the match.

Again, the restart you chose was just, and I doubt anyone argued (especially if it was in the PA), but I don't think it can be called 'proper'.

[faizalenu]

Originally posted by billf


You never, ever, drop the ball after you stop play to administer a caution. If you were to stop play to issue a caution for dissent, the correct restart would be an IFK where the offense occured unless you stopped play for an offense punishible by a DFK. In that case, you'd restart with DFK at the spot of the foul.

You are absolutely right.

[Jeff L]

There has certainly been no indication in this season's "update" of the laws about the drop ball situation in England. As stated above, it is used manly as a "token" incident for injury etc.
Seeing both fouls at once. You're either an exceptionly good referee, or one who can't make up his mind, if that is the decision for using it. I would assume the latter if that is why it was used.

[Andyrey]

Originally posted by billf


You never, ever, drop the ball after you stop play to administer a caution. If you were to stop play to issue a caution for dissent, the correct restart would be an IFK where the offense occured unless you stopped play for an offense punishible by a DFK. In that case, you'd restart with DFK at the spot of the foul.
Not true. If you stop play to administer a caution for something that happened off the field of play, or something that was done by a substitue, the correct restart is a drop ball.

[Jeff L]

Technically that might be correct, but the "professional" way of dealing with an incident off the field of play, unless serious, is to wait until play has stopped, and then deal with the matter. Play would then resume upon how the game stopped. i.e. goal kick, free kick, foul, corner, etc.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by Jeff Lancaster
Technically that might be correct, but the "professional" way of dealing with an incident off the field of play, unless serious, is to wait until play has stopped, and then deal with the matter. Play would then resume upon how the game stopped. i.e. goal kick, free kick, foul, corner, etc.

Jeff I would say it isn't even technically correct. If you have a break in the action awaiting a restart, say a throw in and a player gets cautioned or two players get cautioned the restart is still a throw-in.

If you blow the whistle to stop play for the caution the restart is never a drop ball. Follow the advice given by billf.

[Andyrey]

Originally posted by Alberto

If you blow the whistle to stop play for the caution the restart is never a drop ball. Follow the advice given by billf.
I am sorry, but you are wrong. If a substitute enters the field of play without permission while the ball is in play, you have to stop play, card the substitute (this is one of the 8 mandatory cautions) and restart with a drop ball. The same goes if you stop play to card a substitute (for example descent or send him off for any reason).

Also, if a player commits a cautionable or send off offence while off the field of play and you stop play to handle it, the restart is a dropped ball. An example of that would be a player runs to keep a ball from going out of bounds, succeeds in doing so, but the momentum caries him outside the field of play. An opponent was trying to intercept and misses, and the momentum also carries him outside the field of play. While they are both off the filed, one player strikes the other. You have to stop play, send off the player that did the striking (violent conduct)and restart with a drop ball.

By the way, I am a referee instructor with 14 years of experience as an instructor and 22 years of experience as a referee (currently State Emeritus) and 7 years of experience as an assessor.

[Jeff L]

What would you have done in this situation? This actually happened to me in the last game that I refereed in District Games after the USA Cup in Blaine, MN this summer. I won't say how I handled it at present!
The game was in flow when the coach of one of the teams entered the field of play and spoke with his goalkeeper who he had called out from goal into the centre circle and began talking. When I noticed it I ......
Give your handling of this situation, and how to re-start the game. JEFF.

[kevbrunton]

Originally posted by Andyrey

By the way, I am a referee instructor with 14 years of experience as an instructor and 22 years of experience as a referee (currently State Emeritus) and 7 years of experience as an assessor. Andyrey,

Glad to have you on the boards. Look forward to your advice on things that we discuss here. As I pointed out once earlier, we learn a lot by discussing these situations with each other.

Welcome aboard.

[billf]

Originally posted by Andyrey

I am sorry, but you are wrong. If a substitute enters the field of play without permission while the ball is in play, you have to stop play, card the substitute (this is one of the 8 mandatory cautions) and restart with a drop ball. The same goes if you stop play to card a substitute (for example descent or send him off for any reason).

Also, if a player commits a cautionable or send off offence while off the field of play and you stop play to handle it, the restart is a dropped ball. An example of that would be a player runs to keep a ball from going out of bounds, succeeds in doing so, but the momentum caries him outside the field of play. An opponent was trying to intercept and misses, and the momentum also carries him outside the field of play. While they are both off the filed, one player strikes the other. You have to stop play, send off the player that did the striking (violent conduct)and restart with a drop ball.

By the way, I am a referee instructor with 14 years of experience as an instructor and 22 years of experience as a referee (currently State Emeritus) and 7 years of experience as an assessor.

Ahhh yes, I completely left out that part. I have been rightly shamed. :-) It's funny because this topic was discussed in some detail at a ref metting I went to recently. I wasn't thinking broadly enough, so thank you for correcting me.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by Andyrey

I am sorry, but you are wrong. If a substitute enters the field of play without permission while the ball is in play, you have to stop play, card the substitute (this is one of the 8 mandatory cautions) and restart with a drop ball. The same goes if you stop play to card a substitute (for example descent or send him off for any reason).

Also, if a player commits a cautionable or send off offence while off the field of play and you stop play to handle it, the restart is a dropped ball. An example of that would be a player runs to keep a ball from going out of bounds, succeeds in doing so, but the momentum caries him outside the field of play. An opponent was trying to intercept and misses, and the momentum also carries him outside the field of play. While they are both off the filed, one player strikes the other. You have to stop play, send off the player that did the striking (violent conduct)and restart with a drop ball.

By the way, I am a referee instructor with 14 years of experience as an instructor and 22 years of experience as a referee (currently State Emeritus) and 7 years of experience as an assessor.

I was refering to actions on the field of play between players, not to a player entering the match illegally before being beckoned by the referee for purposes of a substitution. Please see law 4. The only time a drop ball is a proper restart is if the referee stops play to administer a caution. Also see law 8 special circumstances to the restart of play. Typically, we should in practice avoid do this. Allow play to continue and then caution at the next stoppage in play.

Thanks,

[Greyhnd00]

Originally posted by Andyrey


By the way, I am a referee instructor with 14 years of experience as an instructor and 22 years of experience as a referee (currently State Emeritus) and 7 years of experience as an assessor. And I am Han Solo, a grade 8 referee who tries to back up everything I say with the LOTG.........Site the law or the atr and let that prove your point.

LAW 4:If play is stopped by the referee to administer a caution:  the match is restarted by an indirect free kick, to be taken by a player of the opposing team from the place where the ball was located when play was stopped * (see page 3)

ALSO LAW 4 If a substitute enters the field of play without the referee’s permission:
 play is stopped
 the substitute is cautioned, shown the yellow card and required to leave the field of play
 play is restarted with a dropped ball at the
place it was located when play was stopped.

[Andyrey]

OK. lest's get down to basics. Geayhnd00. You are quoting from law 3, not law 4, and, as you pointed out, it stated that if a sub (that is a player in the roster that is not one of the 11 on the filed) enters the field witout permision, the restart is a dropped ball. A yellow card for any other violation of law 3 the restart is an IFK. That is why if you stop play because you discover 12 people from one team on the filed (11 players and a substitute), you stop play, card the substitue and restart with an IFK. The diference is a little technical. If you are carding the sub for entering the filed, then it is a drop ball. If you are carding the sub because there are 12 people on the field from one team, then it is an IFK. This last is usually done when you did not see the sub come on to the filed and noticed him/her there as play progressed.

Law 12 states, "An indirect free kick is also awarded to the opposing team if a player, in the opinion of the referee: ... commits any other offence, not previously mentioned in Law 12, for which play is stopped
to caution or dismiss a player"

The key here is the word 'player' These refers to one of the 22 playes, and does not includes subtitues. Therefore, if you stop play to give a yellow card to a sub, since he is not a player, the IFK does not apply. Since you stoped play for a reason noit covered in the laws, you restart with a dropped ball.

As far as offenses comited off the field of play. since you can not give a free kick from a place that is off the field of play (where the offence happend), then you must have a drop ball.

In my original post, I put down my qualifications because I am new to the board, and wanted every one to know what they are. I was not trying to boast or imply that I am better than anyone else. If I offeneded anyone, I appologise.

[Keith]

Two issues here. First, a drop ball is NEVER given as the acceptable restart for the inabilility of the referee to make a decision. This is why we NEVER give a drop ball for a mutual touch out of play. And Mass. is correct, in that it should never be given for mutual fouls or the inability to decide which foul came first as in a fight behind your back. Make a decision on the best information available. And it's always "convenient" to err on the side of giving it to the defense.

The other is the drop ball restart for an infringement committed by a non-player. I always thought it was if it was a non-player/non-subsitute of record, THEN it's a drop ball where the ball was. If it was committed by a substitute, or a player OFF the field, it's an IFK where the ball was? References, book referees?!

[jkc313]

Originally posted by faizalenu
Drop Balls are rare at higher levels of play, generally there is only two time that you give a drop ball:
1) If you stop restart the game for an injury.
2) If you stop and restart the game to administer a card (very rare since the referee has the discretion to give a card at the next stoppage.)

It is kind of chicken to give a drop ball for simultaneous fouls because you have discretion to give it to the more severe foul/offense and it destroys the flow of the game.

Proper restart for stoppage for misconduct alone if committed on field while ball in play is IFK, not a dropped ball. You would restart with dropped ball for outside interference, or if while play is in progress you discover a 12th player, if an "illegal" substitute enters the game,if referee stops play to verbally warn a player but does not actually caution or send him off,inadvertant whistle,misconduct by player while off the field,misconduct by team officials or substitutes,if ball bursts(except at PK). I'm probably forgetting 1 or 2.