Best Player & Manager of all time

[Leeds92]

Who would be regarded as the greatest player and manager of all time? Most of us agree that Maradona and Pele are generally regarded as the best players of all time, but neither of them (yet anyway) have shown to be a success as a manager.

Conversely their are many great managers who were never sensational as players. Going from modern day, Wenger and Ferguson for examples were never great all time players.

For my mind I was think Beckenbauer would have to be the no 1 in this category.

Who else would others put in this category and who would they rate as the best.

[kingkong1]

Zagallo.

Not so much as the player by itself but as someone who, at the beginning of his career (maybe unconsciously), 'invented' a whole football system – the most successful ever - while still playing.

I'm referring to the 4-3-3.

With that Zagallo united theory & practice, something no other coach dreamed of doing.

Besides being World Champion as a player in 1958 & 1962 (and an excellent one btw), he was as a coach in 1970 (best NT ever), and as a Coaching Supervisor in 1994.

A whole 50 years of impressive achievements:

1955: Rio de Janeiro Tri-Champion as a player
1958: World Champion as a player
1962: World Champion as a player
1970: World Champion as a coach
1974: Semifinalist as a coach
1994: World Champion as a Coaching Supervisor
1997: South American Champion as a coach
1998: World Vice-Champion as a coach
2006: 5th Place as a Coaching Supervisor

A curriculum quite superior to Beckenbauer’s.

[PhiloBarca]

Who else would others put in this category and who would they rate as the best.

Cruyff

[zizou20040014]

Zinedine Zidane, he has the greatest first touch in the world:D. His pass accuracy is amazing. Really a Team-work player

[Pedro's greasy do]

Kenny Dalglish? Considered the best player Liverpool have ever had and I believe the only Manager to win the English league title with two different clubs.

Playing honours


Celtic



Scottish First Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_First_Division)

winner(4): 1971/72, 1972/73, 1973/74, 1976/77
runner-up(1): 1975/76


Scottish Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Cup)

winner(4): 1972, 1974, 1975, 1977
runner-up(1): 1973


Scottish League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_League_Cup)

winner(1): 1975
runner-up(5): 1972, 1973, 1974, 1976, 1977




Liverpool



Football League First Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_First_Division)

winner(6): 1978/79, 1979/80, 1981/82, 1982/83, 1983/84, 1985/86
runner-up(3): 1977/78, 1984/85, 1986/87


FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup)

winner(1): 1986


League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_Cup)

winner(4): 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984
runner-up(2): 1978, 1987


Charity Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_Shield)

winner(5): 1980, 1981, 1983, (Shared): 1978, 1987
runner-up(2): 1984, 1985


European Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Cup)

winner(3): 1978, 1981, 1984
runner-up(1): 1985


European Super Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Super_Cup)

winner(1): 1978
runner-up(1): 1979


Intercontinental Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercontinental_Cup)

runner-up(2): 1982, 1985




Managerial honours


Liverpool



Football League First Division (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_League_First_Division)

winner(3): 1985/86, 1987/88, 1989/90
runner-up(3): 1986/87, 1988/89, 1990/1991


FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup)

winner(2): 1986, 1989
runner-up(1): 1988


League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_Cup)

runner-up(1): 1987


Charity Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_Shield)

winner(5): 1988, 1989, 1990, (Shared): 1991, 1987




Blackburn Rovers



FA Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Premier_League)

winner(1): 1994/1995
runner-up(1): 1993/1994


Football League Second Division Play Off (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Football_League_Second_Division_Play_Off&action=edit&redlink=1)

winner(1): 1991/1992


Charity Shield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charity_Shield)

runner-up(1):1994/95




Newcastle United



FA Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Premier_League)

runner-up(1)1996/97


FA Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup)

runner-up(1):1998




Celtic



Scottish Premier League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Premier_League)

runner-up: 1999/00


Scottish League Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_League_Cup)

winner: 2000

[comme]

Kenny Dalglish? Considered the best player Liverpool have ever had and I believe the only Manager to win the English league title with two different clubs.


Herbert Chapman (Huddersfield and Arsenal) and Brian Clough (Derby and Nottingham Forest) both won titles with different teams. Had he won with Newcastle Dalglish would have been the only one with three.

As to the question Happel would have to be up there as well. Great player, maybe the greatest ever manager.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Herbert Chapman (Huddersfield and Arsenal) and Brian Clough (Derby and Nottingham Forest) both won titles with different teams. Had he won with Newcastle Dalglish would have been the only one with three.

As to the question Happel would have to be up there as well. Great player, maybe the greatest ever manager.

There is something about Dalglish's record that is unique. Can't remember what it is!

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Zinedine Zidane, he has the greatest first touch in the world:D. His pass accuracy is amazing. Really a Team-work player

Must be a sock.

Dalglish is a good shout.

[Spartak]

Franz Beckenbauer

[lanman]

Dalglish was not a great manager. He inherited a great squad at Liverpool and spent big to maintain success before jumping when the going started to get tough and rode Jack Walker's millions to the title with Blackburn. Fantastic player though.

I don't think either Beckenbauer or Cruyff had long enough managerial careers to qualify.

Capello was a good international quality player and one of the best managers. If he wins the World Cup with England it would be difficult to top him.

[kingkong1]

So far, Beckenbauer, Capello, Chapman, Clough, Cruyjff, Dalglish, Ferguson, Happel, Wenger, Zagallo.

Poll? :D

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Dalglish was not a great manager. He inherited a great squad at Liverpool and spent big to maintain success before jumping when the going started to get tough and rode Jack Walker's millions to the title with Blackburn. Fantastic player though.

Lots of managers have inherited great squads or spent a lot and failed.

[Auriaprottu]

Zinedine Zidane, he has the greatest first touch in the world:D. His pass accuracy is amazing. Really a Team-work player

Welcome to BigSoccer, sock.

Zizou hasn't won much as a manager, has he?

[mattteo]

Giovanni Trapattoni

[kingkong1]

Telê Santana.

Pasarella.

And, he he...

I forgot: Zico! :p ...

So far, Beckenbauer, Capello, Chapman, Clough, Cruyjff, Dalglish, Ferguson, Happel, Pasarella, Telê Santana, Trapattoni, Wenger, Zagallo, Zico.

Poll? :D

[lanman]

Lots of managers have inherited great squads or spent a lot and failed.

That others have failed has nothing to do with Dalglish.

The biggest issue with Dalglish is he never won back to back titles despite taking over the most successful club in England and arguably the best in the world.

[Pedro's greasy do]

Dalglish was not a great manager. He inherited a great squad at Liverpool and spent big to maintain success before jumping when the going started to get tough and rode Jack Walker's millions to the title with Blackburn. Fantastic player though.

I don't think either Beckenbauer or Cruyff had long enough managerial careers to qualify.

Capello was a good international quality player and one of the best managers. If he wins the World Cup with England it would be difficult to top him.

See this argument of people inheriting good squads or spending lots of money blah blah! I just don’t get it. He was the manager. He won trophies. Surely that is all that matters??

[uamiranda]

He inherited a great squad at Liverpool and spent big to maintain success.

Lots of managers have inherited great squads or spent a lot and failed.

See this argument of people inheriting good squads or spending lots of money blah blah! I just don’t get it. He was the manager. He won trophies. Surely that is all that matters?? I agree with Pedro and Teso. IMO, having a wonderful (and expensive) squad in paper is not a guarantee of success. I remember Real Madrid with their Galacticos in the beggining of this decade, who were suposed to win 'everything', just like the same Madrid did in the 50's. Ok, they won La Liga 2004-2005, CL 2001-2002 and IC 2002, but maybe I was not the only who expected more. Also, when Flamengo brought Romário, Sávio and Edmundo to the same side in 1995, that was considered the "Dream Team" in Brazil that year, but was not as successful as expected. And like these, there must be a lot of other examples...

[PhiloBarca]

I don't think either Beckenbauer or Cruyff had long enough managerial careers to qualify.


With respect to Cruyff, two clubs and ten years should be enough to evaluate his class as a manager, even if it means he won't have the chance to build the resume of someone with a longer career. Furthermore, what distinguishes Cruyff as a manager is not only that he won a lot with both clubs, but that he basically created a tactical system and recruited the players to run it in both cases. Also, the system was so effective and attractive that it has been the blueprint for all of Barca's subsequent managers, as well as its youth system (it has also been by copied by other teams at various times).

When you add that to his career as a player, I think it makes a good argument for him to top this list.

[Diego Maradona]

Maradona plus he has 100% sucess rate as national manager :p