Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 III [R]

[russ99]

Yeah, but even Mattheaus would be vastly better than rehashing tired, old Werner Lorant.

Augenthaler wouldn't be a bad choice, but he'd better deliver or the fans will be all over him due to his Bayern connections. Mattheaus even more so, since he was so hated by Löwenfans as a player.

As for Hoeness' comments, it just smacks me of elitism, especially considering how he reacted negatively towards comments about 1860 at the Bayern fan meeting this fall.

While he may legitimately feel that way, I don't see any reason other than spite why one of the "top 3 managers in Euro football" :rolleyes: (on financial prowess, I'll give you that) would really care enough to comment about the management situation at 1860 - in TZ no less, and I think we all know what a bastion of journalistic integrity the Tageszeitung is.

Plus there's other ways to comment about concern of the future of a club without resorting to "the beginning of the end..."

[footyfan1]

Yeah, but Mattheaus would be vastly better than rehashing Lorant.

I honestly don't know about that. Mattheaus hasn't done jack shit at any of his coaching stops to warrant getting a top job in the 1st or 2nd Bundesligas.

What has he done to make you think he'll do anything?? If he's any good, don't you think a German team would have hired him by now??

Sure, I think Lorant would be a disaster, but Mattheaus would be too and at least Lorant has his COACHING past.



Augenthaler wouldn't be a bad choice, but he'd better deliver or the fans will be all over him due to his Bayern connections.

Augenthaler is the one guy mentioned who has "delivered" everywhere he's gone. At least for awhile.


As for Hoeness' comments, it just smacks me of elitism, especially considering how he reacted negatively towards comments about 1860 at the Bayern fan meeting this fall.

Dude, I think you're being seriously sensitive about Hoeness' words. You may not have liked his words at the Bayern fan meeting or on this turn of events, but guess what? His words were true.


While he may legitimately feel that way, I don't see any reason other than spite why one of the "top 3 managers in Euro football" :rolleyes: (on financial prowess, I'll give you that) would really care enough to comment about the management situation at 1860 - in TZ no less.

He commented because he was asked to. And your comments show me two things.

One, you're really over-sensitive on this subject.

Two, you seem to think Uli Hoeness really has a bit of concern about 1860.

I told you guys before. 1860 hasn't been on Bayern's radar for the longest time. The two share a stadium. That is it.

In case you don't get what I'm saying, I'll put in plain English.

1860 doesn't matter enough to Uli Hoeness for him to be "spiteful" about anything.

Like it or not, that is fact. 1860 doesn't matter to people in Bayern management. When or if 1860 ever works its way back to the 1st Bundesliga, Bayern will welcome that because they will make more money.

Right now 1860 is useless to FC Bayern. I don't know what makes you think 1860 is anything other than that to Bayern or anyone else in the 1st Bundesliga.

I know you love 1860. I get that and respect that. But dude. No one else cares enough to make "spiteful" comments about this deal.

Not Uli Hoeness or anyone else.



Plus there's other ways to comment about concern of the future of a club without resorting to "the beginning of the end..."

Not if that's the way he feels. Shit, Garry and I feel the same way and we said so.

I don't see you jumping on us about our comments. And Uli Hoeness definitely isn't the only one who feels that way. I talked press and club people up north (for a piece a friend of mine is putting together) about this deal this evening and I can count the number of people who feel 1860 did the right thing on one finger.

And it wasn't a club guy, it was a reporter.

All agree that these guys should get a fair chance, almost none feel 1860 have done the right thing.

About the only ones who feel they have seem to be the 1860 board and the desperate fan base.

And some of the guys I talked to used words like "untrustworthy", "idiots", and "incompetent" when describing board members and the club president.

When I asked a guy at another 2. Liga club about it, he only said, "I think Uli Hoeness was 100% correct. We had such offers during our financial crisis and were quite tempted, but knew that in the end, we were already on the right track."

Again, I hope one year from today, these guys are well on their way to proving the fears to be wrong and unfounded. I would ecstatic to come here and write that I was wrong.

But right now it doesn't look that way. And the 1860 board looks like a bunch of back-stabbing whores.

[goindownsouth]

Any developments this morning?

[russ99]

I honestly don't know about that. Mattheaus hasn't done jack shit at any of his coaching stops to warrant getting a top job in the 1st or 2nd Bundesligas.

What has he done to make you think he'll do anything?? If he's any good, don't you think a German team would have hired him by now??

Sure, I think Lorant would be a disaster, but Mattheaus would be too and at least Lorant has his COACHING past.





Augenthaler is the one guy mentioned who has "delivered" everywhere he's gone. At least for awhile.




Dude, I think you're being seriously sensitive about Hoeness' words. You may not have liked his words at the Bayern fan meeting or on this turn of events, but guess what? His words were true.




He commented because he was asked to. And your comments show me two things.

One, you're really over-sensitive on this subject.

Two, you seem to think Uli Hoeness really has a bit of concern about 1860.

I told you guys before. 1860 hasn't been on Bayern's radar for the longest time. The two share a stadium. That is it.

In case you don't get what I'm saying, I'll put in plain English.

1860 doesn't matter enough to Uli Hoeness for him to be "spiteful" about anything.

Like it or not, that is fact. 1860 doesn't matter to people in Bayern management. When or if 1860 ever works its way back to the 1st Bundesliga, Bayern will welcome that because they will make more money.

Right now 1860 is useless to FC Bayern. I don't know what makes you think 1860 is anything other than that to Bayern or anyone else in the 1st Bundesliga.

I know you love 1860. I get that and respect that. But dude. No one else cares enough to make "spiteful" comments about this deal.

Not Uli Hoeness or anyone else.





Not if that's the way he feels. Shit, Garry and I feel the same way and we said so.

I don't see you jumping on us about our comments. And Uli Hoeness definitely isn't the only one who feels that way. I talked press and club people up north (for a piece a friend of mine is putting together) about this deal this evening and I can count the number of people who feel 1860 did the right thing on one finger.

And it wasn't a club guy, it was a reporter.

All agree that these guys should get a fair chance, almost none feel 1860 have done the right thing.

About the only ones who feel they have seem to be the 1860 board and the desperate fan base.

And some of the guys I talked to used words like "untrustworthy", "idiots", and "incompetent" when describing board members and the club president.

When I asked a guy at another 2. Liga club about it, he only said, "I think Uli Hoeness was 100% correct. We had such offers during our financial crisis and were quite tempted, but knew that in the end, we were already on the right track."

Again, I hope one year from today, these guys are well on their way to proving the fears to be wrong and unfounded. I would ecstatic to come here and write that I was wrong.

But right now it doesn't look that way. And the 1860 board looks like a bunch of back-stabbing whores.

All right, well put.

And my comments certainly don't defend the 1860 management in their boneheaded and hubris-driven decisions, and all the backstabbing drama.

I just think things were taken too far. Besides, what's the worst case here, something like what happened at Fiorentina or St. Pauli - and look how both of them have come out of it...

Maybe our doofus leadership team may luck into a reasonably healty situation, but I also very much doubt it. I'm preparing myself for 3. Liga or worse until proven otherwise.

[goindownsouth]

I'm preparing myself for 3. Liga or worse until proven otherwise.

Great. 1860 can fight it out with Regensburg Jahn for promotion to 2.BL.

[1860]

Hey Hey, this sounds like the Abendzeitung Forum here. Okay there was some weird decisions in managment, decisions I don't agree with. But we are 1860 we do not talk about relegation. We are the Lions we have a new manager now and he represents my club. Therefore I support him, lets give him a chance and see how he does.

So auf gehts buam. WIR WOLLN EUCH KÄMPFEN SEHEN.

1860 FOR LIVE.

[1860]

Okay guys, just watched the 1860 game. 2-0 down in Mainz and then a comeback. I think the team has just given the best possible answer on the field. Stevic has just said that Kurz will remain coach. Now a home win against Ahlen (who played terrible today) and we will look much better.
Only downer the second Bender twin, and Beda might be out.

[footyfan1]

Hey Hey, this sounds like the Abendzeitung Forum here. Okay there was some weird decisions in managment, decisions I don't agree with. But we are 1860 we do not talk about relegation. We are the Lions we have a new manager now and he represents my club. Therefore I support him, lets give him a chance and see how he does.

So auf gehts buam. WIR WOLLN EUCH KÄMPFEN SEHEN.

1860 FOR LIVE.


Appreciate your comments, but this is a free forum and we'll talk about what we like as long as it pertains to 1860.

[footyfan1]

Okay guys, just watched the 1860 game. 2-0 down in Mainz and then a comeback. I think the team has just given the best possible answer on the field. Stevic has just said that Kurz will remain coach. Now a home win against Ahlen (who played terrible today) and we will look much better.
Only downer the second Bender twin, and Beda might be out.


Ahlen played terrible today, but they managed to beat arguably the hottest team in the 2nd Bundesliga before the break?

You'll have to explain that one.

[1860]

ups sorry guys, ya Ahlen did win today. Watched the games at 5 in the morning and sort of mixed the Ahlen-Augsburg game and the Oberhausen-Ingolstadt game together.
Sorry about that.

And I did not plan to offend anybody by saying that this is like the Abendzeitung forum, I just wanted some positive spirit going.

[footyfan1]

ups sorry guys, ya Ahlen did win today. Watched the games at 5 in the morning and sort of mixed the Ahlen-Augsburg game and the Oberhausen-Ingolstadt game together.

Sorry about that.



I thought there was some confusion with Ahlen. They played pretty well for them, but they shouldn't be anything Sechzig can't handle.


And I did not plan to offend anybody by saying that this is like the Abendzeitung forum, I just wanted some positive spirit going.

The team's performance in Mainz will help get that spirit going. However, even those of us who don't like this latest deal all said we hope we're wrong and we all mean that.

However, it does not take away the fact that many of Germany's top football experts believe 1860 made a mistake here.

But on the other hand, we all know experts can be wrong. Football isn't something where the majority's opinion is automatically the correct one. :)

Stevic and his group will get their chance to prove their competence.

[aloisius]

So, silly question, but I don't know the 1860 fan situation and how the club is formed. Anyone care to enlighten a silly Brit on how things work in Jerryland? (Sorry):cool:

what exactly do you mean?

[aloisius]

Thanks man. I hate blogging b/c who the F cares what I think....but I blogged this one.:cool:

Translated and posted in the German 1860 forum. Got 322 +reps and 257 neg reps. Go figure. Even sent to 1860 to have them forward to Reuter. Doubt they will...but watch my LoewenTV subscription get cut off.

how about a link to this?

[footyfan1]

This came across "Bild's" 'Sport Telegramm" (News Ticker) this morning......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Bayern General Manager Uli Hoeness has offered to have discussions with local rivals 1860 Munich on releasing 1860 from their Allianz Arena lease and mentioned the possibility that 1860 could return to Grünwalder Stadion. Hoeness said, “If 1860 wants out of their Allianz Arena lease, they should give us a time frame for their departure and we will consider it.” Hoeness also stated the “Löwen” could also return to the Olympiastadion. Hoeness also commented, “There is also the possibility of returning to Grünwalder Stadion. 1860 has the mayor and half of the city council on their board. They could approve expansion of Grünwalder Stadion."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

***My comments: Of course, I think Hoeness' Grünwalder Stadion comments are meant to be "tongue-in-cheek." He knows the city won't renovate Grünwalder Stadion or they would have already. He also knows 1860 doesn't have the money to do it. This is something 1860 should have done themselves instead of throwing their money into the AA. But of course, that can all be blamed on Wildmoeser.

If 1860 can get out of this lease, I think the Olympiastadion is truly the only viable option. There's no way the club could make enough money to survive at the Grünwalder Stadion. No way in hell.

[goindownsouth]

Interesting news for a Monday morning...

Nice to see the 2-2 draw. 1860 could have easily packed that one in early but did not.

[footyfan1]

Interesting news for a Monday morning...

Nice to see the 2-2 draw. 1860 could have easily packed that one in early but did not.

They could have won it too. That's the inspiring part.

[goindownsouth]

They could have won it too. That's the inspiring part.

Inspiring or disappointing?

[footyfan1]

Inspiring or disappointing?

Inspiring to me. I thought they'd get killed.

[russ99]

This came across "Bild's" 'Sport Telegramm" (News Ticker) this morning......

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Bayern General Manager Uli Hoeness has offered to have discussions with local rivals 1860 Munich on releasing 1860 from their Allianz Arena lease and mentioned the possibility that 1860 could return to Grünwalder Stadion. Hoeness said, “If 1860 wants out of their Allianz Arena lease, they should give us a time frame for their departure and we will consider it.” Hoeness also stated the “Löwen” could also return to the Olympiastadion. Hoeness also commented, “There is also the possibility of returning to Grünwalder Stadion. 1860 has the mayor and half of the city council on their board. They could approve expansion of Grünwalder Stadion."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

***My comments: Of course, I think Hoeness' Grünwalder Stadion comments are meant to be "tongue-in-cheek." He knows the city won't renovate Grünwalder Stadion or they would have already. He also knows 1860 doesn't have the money to do it. This is something 1860 should have done themselves instead of throwing their money into the AA. But of course, that can all be blamed on Wildmoeser.

If 1860 can get out of this lease, I think the Olympiastadion is truly the only viable option. There's no way the club could make enough money to survive at the Grünwalder Stadion. No way in hell.

I wonder if this is just posturing by my good friend Uli (sarcasm), since 1860 has publicly stated they have issue with parts of the lease that make them pay for certain things on par with Bayern, and would surely prefer renegotiation over being released from the lease. That is unless the "three stooges" have taken full leave of their senses.

Unless a new ground is built (or a gut rebuild of Grünwalder), which IMO is impossible considering our economic climate and club finances, I think it would be a bad financial move to leave Allianz at this point. Do we really want to play in a 10% full Olympiastadion again? The potential for higher gate revenue realistically is at Allianz regardless of some fans distate of playing there.

But if we get relegated or lose our license, the point is moot.

But enough negative stuff. I'm very encouraged by the draw vs. Mainz, and even more so that Kurz is staying for now.

Hopefully the drama can subside and we can concentrate on the football...

[footyfan1]

I wonder if this is just posturing by my good friend Uli (sarcasm), since 1860 has publicly stated they have issue with parts of the lease that make them pay for certain things on par with Bayern, and would surely prefer renegotiation over being released from the lease. That is unless the "three stooges" have taken full leave of their senses.

Dude, I think Uli is serious, but knows 1860 really doesn't want to leave the AA. Right now, they still draw fans from the opposition who just want to see a match in that stadium.

I think Uli was just trying to screw with 1860's fan movement a little bit too.

I also believe Uli wants to see how far this new crew will go in trying to appease the 1860 fan base.

I think 1860 management knows that leaving the AA would be stupid, but they do need to renegotiate that lease, which Reuter was in the process of pulling Bayern to the table to do.




Unless a new ground is built (or a gut rebuild of Grünwalder), which IMO is impossible considering our economic climate and club finances, I think it would be a bad financial move to leave Allianz at this point. Do we really want to play in a 10% full Olympiastadion again? The potential for higher gate revenue realistically is at Allianz regardless of some fans distate of playing there.

Exactly what I said above. The fans still talking about returning to Grünwalder Stadion are just freakin' hilarious.

Dude, there's going to be no new ground built and I don't think there's going to be any renovation of Grünwalder Stadion either.

If any stadium gets renovated or rebuilt, it will be the Olympiastadion.

However, that would be for a Munich 2018/2022 Winter Olympics bid, not for 1860.


But if we get relegated or lose our license, the point is moot.

I don't see that happening. Not this season. What Garry and I were going on about is this "Promotion 2010" thing. As if just new money is going to secure that.

Wait until they start trying to secure the players Reuter hasn't already secured or was in the process of securing.

But enough negative stuff. I'm very encouraged by the draw vs. Mainz, and even more so that Kurz is staying for now.

I don't think Kurz is the key at all. If they replaced him with the right coach, I think this team could do better.

That doesn't mean I think Kurz is the problem. That is not what I mean at all.

It only means I believe a more experienced, but GOOD coach could do better with this team.

Even though I f#cking hate him, I mean someone like Klaus Augenthaler.

Whether you really like your coach or not, if you are in a club in 1860's situation and you have a chance to upgrade at coach, you do it.

I'm very "pro-Reuter", but the one thing I disagreed with him on was sticking with Kurz no matter what.

I understood that it would not make sense to pay off another coach to simply go away, so there was no real push.

But if these new guys have the money do so, I say get this team a better coach.


Hopefully the drama can subside and we can concentrate on the football...

Earning that draw had to help some, but what I hate is that some people will think Stevic has already changed some of the atmosphere, whereas I believe the players were simply fighting for their coach's job.

I hope they can keep it up, but I have my doubts.

It was good to see Schaeffler finally score. Now let's see if Garry is right and he continues to score or if it was an "it was finally bound to happen" thing.......