Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 III [R]

[Floormaster Squeeze]

Ok, here's the plan:

Go to Andechser am Dom and get good and loaded on their Doppelbock.
Walk to Weisebrauhaus im Tal and get a few Aventinus or Schneider Weiss biers in you.
Get the Scheinswurst'l at Marientplatz before you get on the U6
Take the U6 to the game from Marienplatz
Load up on Gluehwein at the match to keep you warm
Before you leave the Schlachboot, get a few Leberkase sandwiches for the ride back
Party at Salvator Keller at Paulaner or Augustiner Keller after the match



I have avoided the bier discussion for a variety of reasons but seeing as how I have no interest right now in discussing 1860 I thought I might add some of my insight.

Fun fact on Andechs--they licensed their beer to be brewed in the US for a short-time in the US (Huber Brewing, Monroe, Wisconsin). I lived in Wisconsin at the time and lets say that even if you want to argue about licensed vs. "real thing" that drinking Andechs was a pleasure (OK I know it was not as good as the real thing but it was good). It was also inexpensive because no one knew about it.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3469/is_n18_v44/ai_13840812

While a lot of people consider Aventinus one of the world's great beers (and who am I too argue--if you can get it fresh enjoy) here in the states I find Weihenstaphaner Vitus to be a better value. It is almost half the price at my local and is arguably as good or nearly as good. I drink dunkel wheat's myself but in general I like other wheats more than Schneider (heretical I know). I am partial to Kapuziner Dunkel Weisse and Ayinger Ur-Weisse (I buy the Hacker-Pschorr Dunkel Weisse but I know it is not as good). In parts of the US, Moosbacher is available (not here) and I find that pretty good. Maybe I have no taste.

American Breweries have trouble making Hefeweisse for reasons I do not understand. In fact, beer experts just classify them as American Wheats which is helpful because for years I would buy some regional Hefe and conclude they had no idea what they are doing. Ironically, sometimes a US brewer will try to make a Belgian Wit and come closer to a German Hefe than those trying to make Hefe's.

I would love to be in Munich for a few days just to have a few halbs.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

wow an 1860 fan in Somerville, and I thought a Hertha fan in Boston was weird :D ;)

[LoewenBoy]

I have avoided the bier discussion for a variety of reasons but seeing as how I have no interest right now in discussing 1860 I thought I might add some of my insight.
My friend, there is NEVER a bad time to discuss bier.


Fun fact on Andechs--they licensed their beer to be brewed in the US for a short-time in the US (Huber Brewing, Monroe, Wisconsin).

I know the guy who ran that campaign for Andechs in Germany. They really thought it would work well. They supplied ALL the ingredients from Germany and all you had to do was follow the recipe. Problem was that the Euro value really killed the idea....made contract brewing using German ingredients impossibly expensive.

While a lot of people consider Aventinus one of the world's great beers (and who am I too argue--if you can get it fresh enjoy) here in the states I find Weihenstaphaner Vitus to be a better value.
Just like British Humor, Ornette Coleman records, driving Minis and drinking single malts, Aventinus is an aquired taste; one either loves it or hates it. Never seen someone in between. It is a rarity: a doppel weizen bock. Not many of those around.

American Breweries have trouble making Hefeweisse for reasons I do not understand.

Allow me...

Pastuerization
Poor yeast strains
Perceived lack of demand
The urge to put fruit into bier when it does not belong there unless you are brewing a Belgian
Top fermentation bigots
Have not mastered the art of bottle conditioning....too much a reliance on sanitized automated brewing
In fact, beer experts just classify them as American Wheats which is helpful because for years I would buy some regional Hefe and conclude they had no idea what they are doing.

Well there is the theoretical and applied practice answers here. In theory, there should be little difference between "american wheats" and their Bavarian counter parts, except for the US style usually uses American hops and yeast, making the final product more dry and "crisp". (insert puking sounds here). They lack the banana or clove tones you usually get with most Bavarian weiss biers. In practice many "american wheats" are truly brewed with nearly all wheat, as well as other adjuncts like rice or corn (yuck). Bavarian wheats are brewed with two base malts; usually wheat and a pilsner malt, in ratios of 20/80 all the way up to 60/40 (how I used to brew mine). But in the end it is the hops and yeast that are teh true differeniators.

Ironically, sometimes a US brewer will try to make a Belgian Wit and come closer to a German Hefe than those trying to make Hefe's.
OMG....yes, I have seen that. To make THAT mistake you have to pretty numb in the head. A Wit is truly a taste of its own, but to the uninitiated, I can see them f*cking that up.


I would love to be in Munich for a few days just to have a few halbs.
Westpark, am Rosengarten.....the best kept secret in Muenchen in the summer.;)

[Hobo]

American Breweries have trouble making Hefeweisse for reasons I do not understand. In fact, beer experts just classify them as American Wheats which is helpful because for years I would buy some regional Hefe and conclude they had no idea what they are doing. Ironically, sometimes a US brewer will try to make a Belgian Wit and come closer to a German Hefe than those trying to make Hefe's.




Allow me...

Pastuerization
Poor yeast strains
Perceived lack of demand
The urge to put fruit into bier when it does not belong there unless you are brewing a Belgian
Top fermentation bigots
Have not mastered the art of bottle conditioning....too much a reliance on sanitized automated brewing

Well there is the theoretical and applied practice answers here. In theory, there should be little difference between "american wheats" and their Bavarian counter parts, except for the US style usually uses American hops and yeast, making the final product more dry and "crisp". (insert puking sounds here). They lack the banana or clove tones you usually get with most Bavarian weiss biers. In practice many "american wheats" are truly brewed with nearly all wheat, as well as other adjuncts like rice or corn (yuck). Bavarian wheats are brewed with two base malts; usually wheat and a pilsner malt, in ratios of 20/80 all the way up to 60/40 (how I used to brew mine). But in the end it is the hops and yeast that are teh true differeniators.



I have also been constantly disappointed at American Wheats, but...
I had a Flying Dog American Wheat recently and found it to be as close to a Bavarian wheat as I have ever had. By the end of the six pack, I wasn't quite as excited as when I started but I would be interested to know if what yall think.
Also, on the side of the bottle it says something like "if you get one served with lemon wedge, throw it across the room because Germans don't drink it that way." The effort seems to be there...

http://www.flyingdogales.com/beer-in-heat.asp

http://www.flyingdogales.com/images/title-beer-ds-breakdown.gif
ABV:4.7%Plato:12IBU's:12Specialty Malts:Malted White Wheat, Munich MaltHops:German Perle
Process:Unfiltered for added flavorhttp://www.flyingdogales.com/images/beer-wheat-bottle.gif

[footyfan1]

Marco Kurz was fired today.

Kicker.de: 1860: "Co" Uwe Wolf leitet Training - Aus für "Löwen"-Dompteur Kurz (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/2bundesliga/startseite/artikel/504924/)

I can't say that I'm shocked or that I disagree. I've said I thought Kurz has already taken this team as far as he can take it.

But they'd better make sure they've got a better coach coming on board.

All the best to Marco Kurz. He won't have a problem getting another job.

[goindownsouth]

wow an 1860 fan in Somerville, and I thought a Hertha fan in Boston was weird :D ;)

Try and 1860 fan in Greenville, South Carolina...

Sakes...

[goindownsouth]

Damn... That's a shame about Kurz, but I am not surprised either.

On the Bier issue, there are perhaps one or two American-made Weissbiers that I would call even close to worthy. One is made at Sly Fox in Phoenixville, PA and the other is Live Oak, made in Texas - of all places. That said, Hofbrauhaus Traunstein is my all-time fave, although an ex-pat friend in Munich insists Fliegerbraeu will be very, very close to that. I am 13 days away from finding out.

[LoewenBoy]

I have also been constantly disappointed at American Wheats, but...I had a Flying Dog American Wheat recently and found it to be as close to a Bavarian wheat as I have ever had.
going to Market Street to buy today. Thanks for the tip.


Also, on the side of the bottle it says something like "if you get one served with lemon wedge, throw it across the room because Germans don't drink it that way." The effort seems to be there...

...or at least the sentiment.:D Only The Berliners put crap like that in good bier. Don't get me wrong, I can "go Belgian" any time, but when I drink German bier I drink it like a German, when I am in the mood for a Belgian I can go Belgian. Its like Disney World; Belgium is the Magic Kingdom of bier. Sure you love to go there every once in a while, but living there would drive you crazy.


http://www.flyingdogales.com/images/title-beer-ds-breakdown.gif
ABV:4.7%Plato:12IBU's:12Specialty Malts:Malted White Wheat, Munich MaltHops:German Perle
Process:Unfiltered for added flavor
Wow, white wheat and Munich (dark) malt?!?!? That has to be a dark beer. And 12 IBUs?!?!?! That is one bitter wheat. Will have to try.

Ever had Aventinus? Was it dark and strong like that?

[LoewenBoy]

Marco Kurz was fired today. I can't say that I'm shocked or that I disagree. I've said I thought Kurz has already taken this team as far as he can take it.
What pisses me off is that Kurz had a real shitty hand here. How many injuries has he had to cope with? I mean KEY injuries. He has held this team together despite having HUGE freak'n problems, on and off the field, to deal with.

Unless they have someone "in hand" that is better they better announce it now. Given what they did to Reuter (had his replacement known two months in advance of his departure), they better DAMN WELL have someone!!!!!! I hope Stevic realizes what he is doing now. He has NO SCAPEGOAT left, this is all his play now. If 1860 sinks he will be the guy who sunk it.:mad:


But they'd better make sure they've got a better coach coming on board.
All the best to Marco Kurz. He won't have a problem getting another job.
Amen.

That said, Hofbrauhaus Traunstein is my all-time fave, although an ex-pat friend in Munich insists Fliegerbraeu will be very, very close to that. I am 13 days away from finding out.
Been there. Trust me, if you like that place you will fall in love and tear up your return ticket if you went to HBH Tegernsee. Nestled in the mountains and right on Tegernsee, you sit under 200 year-old chestnut trees ina bier garten you would swear is from the 1900s....just wonderful. The food? Five star but without the price and reduced portion size.

[hackespitze123]

Hopfen und Malz - Gott erhalt's!

[goindownsouth]

Been there. Trust me, if you like that place you will fall in love and tear up your return ticket if you went to HBH Tegernsee. Nestled in the mountains and right on Tegernsee, you sit under 200 year-old chestnut trees ina bier garten you would swear is from the 1900s....just wonderful. The food? Five star but without the price and reduced portion size.

But the question is... can I get there easily by MVV from Munich?

[LoewenBoy]

But the question is... can I get there easily by MVV from Munich?
Yep. U-bahn to Hbf, then S-Bahn to Tegernsee, shor walk or bus to stop across the street from Braustuberl. 64 minutes and one BOB train and you are there.

http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/

The MVV gets you to Holzkirchen. You then need to take the BOB from there to Tegernsee, then small walk and then bus....but WELL worth the trip!!!!!

[LoewenBoy]

Well, have been watching the PK on the firing held by Stevic and Stoffers. Let me point out a few things:

Stevic is a Punk: This f#cker fired Kurz over the phone. Over the F#CKING phone!!!!! Stevic has now reached legendary back-stabbing status for me. Hope he gets what is coming to him!!!!
No Solution: Stevic is saying that the assistant Wolf is the only solution 1860 has right now. Effectively he is saying that Kurz's system is ok, just not Kuz, because Wolf embodies Marco's system. He won't change a thing.
Blame Game: Stevic puts the blame solely on Kurz. He does not even recognize the other problems Kurz encountered. He blames the approach Kurz was using without even understanding that Wolf will do little to change what Kurz did. Why? Because Wolf is a U23 coach with little BL experience as a coach OR player. At least Kurz had that.
Stoffers the Tap-Dancing Idiot: The guy who took over for Reuter is making Wildmoser look like a freak'n financial/football Einstein.
I tell you, 1860 is in very, very dangerous shape now. Kurz was the rallying point for the team and management does not see that. I fear for the drop in form we are about to have.

[aloisius]

why does stević have any say in these matters when the investors he was supose to bring in aren't there?

[footyfan1]

Well, have been watching the PK on the firing held by Stevic and Stoffers. Let me point out a few things:

Stevic is a Punk: This f#cker fired Kurz over the phone. Over the F#CKING phone!!!!! Stevic has now reached legendary back-stabbing status for me. Hope he gets what is coming to him!!!!
No Solution: Stevic is saying that the assistant Wolf is the only solution 1860 has right now. Effectively he is saying that Kurz's system is ok, just not Kuz, because Wolf embodies Marco's system. He won't change a thing.
Blame Game: Stevic puts the blame solely on Kurz. He does not even recognize the other problems Kurz encountered. He blames the approach Kurz was using without even understanding that Wolf will do little to change what Kurz did. Why? Because Wolf is a U23 coach with little BL experience as a coach OR player. At least Kurz had that.
Stoffers the Tap-Dancing Idiot: The guy who took over for Reuter is making Wildmoser look like a freak'n financial/football Einstein.
I tell you, 1860 is in very, very dangerous shape now. Kurz was the rallying point for the team and management does not see that. I fear for the drop in form we are about to have.

Man. I don't know what to say.

And you know it is f#cking hard to take words from my mouth......

[LoewenBoy]

why does stević have any say in these matters when the investors he was supose to bring in aren't there?
Damn good question! I guess that is what happens when you become sporting director....even if you bring in an investor that turns our to tank, you still keep your job.

All I can say is when they finally fire Stevic, you are going to hear complaints and "blame-storming" like you are hearing from the current US administration. Its never THEIR fault, its always someone else.

At least Kurz was man enough to say that he and he alone was responsible. That's a true pro....and man. Stevic is a back-stabbing, pu$$y who will get his soon.

[LoewenBoy]

why does stević have any say in these matters when the investors he was supose to bring in aren't there?
More on the PK. Where you expect to see the name "Micki Stevic", I will take a page from FF1 and you will now see the words "The Back-Stabbing Bastard" Stevic. Where you would expect to the name "Manfred Stoffers" you will see the words "Herman-Munster Looking Douchebag"

Micki "The Back-Stabbing Bastard" Stevic: I was excited to down the path with Marco Kurz. Unfortunately, because of the lethargic combined performace [in Duisburg] we need to set a precidence.

Manfred "Herman-Munster Looking Douchebag" Stoffers: Of Kurz he says... "The reason for our action is clear and you can see it in our table position."

Micki "The Back-Stabbing Bastard" Stevic: "Uwe Wolf is the best solution after the firing of Marco Kurz. Now the players will be held responsible. We have taken away their alibi. Excuses are gone. Now the players must show that they are better than their actual table position Simply to put on the uniform will not do. Because of this lethargic showing in Duisburg we have lost at minimum 10,000 spectators for St. Pauli. I want more spectators, but we have to offer more."

Manfred "Herman-Munster Looking Douchebag" Stoffers: "I have said ice cold, 'Either change the numbers or change the heads".

[LB Comment: With great minds like this running 1860, there is no doubt that we will be the best, kick-ass club in the 3.BL within 18 months....mark my words.]

[Borussia]

Any idea who will replace Marco Kurz?

[LoewenBoy]

Any idea who will replace Marco Kurz?
LOL....well depends on who you listen to. I have heard rumors that Augenthaler, Lodda, Toppmoeller, Lienen and even Lorant have been mentioned. The quaalude popping morons in some of the German fora are believing unsubstantiated msg board rumors that Scolari will be coming.:rolleyes:

The simple fact is 1860 has NO money. We still have to pay Reuter while paying the Herman Munster-looking Douchebag Stoffers. We still have to pay Kurz while paying the Back-Stabbing Bastard Stevic. So, all of this crap going on with "new" people has only ADDED to our operations deficit. Add to it the lost sponsor issue (again), the lost investor issues which the Back-Stabbing Bastard Stevic brought to 1860 which has fallen through, the lost income from nose-diving gate figures and you can see 1860 has ZERO $$$ to pay anyone of any repute.

As I said, I think 1860 is going to make one, well-run 3.BL or RL club in 18 months.:(

[Hobo]

going to Market Street to buy today. Thanks for the tip.

Let me know what you think - I am worried that my excitement clouded my judgment, or maybe it was the yeast. :D



Wow, white wheat and Munich (dark) malt?!?!? That has to be a dark beer. And 12 IBUs?!?!?! That is one bitter wheat. Will have to try.

Ever had Aventinus? Was it dark and strong like that?

It was dark, but wasn't as robust as I would have liked.