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Fussballer
29 Jan 2009, 04:57 PM
It's been brewing for a while now, but I can't accept draws against lesser clubs any longer. Rafa has created a team that is unbeatable... and winnable. This past draw against Wigan has broken the camel's back and action needs to be taken to right the ship. I know I'll be branded a traitor, a fair-weather fan, a heretic and possibly a Man U supporter, but I don't care. I know what I am, and how I feel. That's why it pains me to say that it's time for Rafa to get the sack. It's time to cut off the arm to save the body. Here is why (in no order of importance):

Inability to manage Keane - Everybody and their mum knows Keano's got tremendous talent. He was a prolific striker for Spurs and has consistently been one of the top EPL goal scorers in the past few years. So what's his problem at LFC? One could point to his inconsistent form, but the boy got his stroke back during the Arse match and continued to the Bolton match. Then, for unknown reasons, he's back in the doghouse and benched. If we're honest, we've seen this pattern from Rafa before. Crouch comes to mind. Some pundits have speculated that he's seeking revenge against Parry because he didn't get Barry and got Parry's lameduck choice. I won't go that far, but I can not find a valid reason for Keane's benching. And if Rafa is hog-tied to a 1-striker mentality, why is Keane on the team? That revenge scenario starts to make sense.

Babel - The boy has seriously regressed in talent yet continues to find plenty of playing time. He starts in the Wigan game after he was shambolic against Everton. What gives? Babel should've been relegated to the doghouse a long time ago and should've been offloaded during the transfer window.

Inability to request talent in Jan transfer window - At the end of Dec, when asked about any needs for the Jan window, Rafa said we're fine. Last time I checked, we have major issues at the wing-backs. Hate to say it, but Dossena hasn't added much. Insua has shown the most promise in his limited time but he lacks experience. It's no secret that our wing backs have added next to nothing to the offense all year long.

Tactics anyone? - The starting lineup against Wigan takes the cake. Riera has shown a recent upturn in form yet Babel is favored over him on the left wing? And Lucas over Alonso? You've got to be kidding me. Lucas and Babel are not worthy to wear an LFC kit anymore. And his subs? First of all, it won't kill you to sub before the 70th minute. He rides bad performances for much too long. And take out your best striker when you need a goal? The incompetancy is mind-blowing.

Kuyt - He plays as a striker and doesn't score. He plays as a winger and doesn't score. His touches and passes are abysmal and yet he's out on the pitch for every minute. Sure, he hustles, but what does it get us in the end? Sweet FA. Granted, he was benched against Wigan which was a shocker, but he'll be back to his inept self against Chelski in a starting role. There's a reason he doesn't start for Holland. IMHO, he's bench player at best. Just think of the spark he would provide at the 70th minute.

His row with Fergie is distracting - Sure, Fergie had it coming to him but the timing of the spat was just bad. You could practically plot LFC's decline and Man U's rise from the end that speech. We were in 1st when he made the speech and now we are in 3rd. Hate to say but Rafa's wearing a lot of egg on his face now. Sometimes it's just better to keep quiet and say it on the field.

Inability to inspire the troops anymore - It's one thing to come out flat against Stoke. It's another to do it not once but twice against Everton. I get the feeling the players no longer believe in him to guide them to an EPL title. Playing mind games may work in Spain but in England, they usually go pear-shaped. I hate to side with Rafa's critics, but I now feel they have a point in saying that Rafa lacks the skills to guide LFC to an EPL title.

Now, don't get me wrong. I have loved Rafa in the past and supported him since the day he arrived. I stood by him when his rotation methods were questioned. I stood by when Crouchey was benched. I stood by him thru thick and thin. But now, it's so thin that you can see the rot. The focus now is winning an EPL title, and I don't think we can get there from here with Rafa at the helm. And to tell the truth, seeing Sammy Lee in charge while Rafa was out injured convinced me that he should be the man to lead the team.

Can anyone defend Rafa anymore? I'd love to hear some reasons why he shouldn't be sacked.

drobny23
29 Jan 2009, 05:15 PM
I'll give you a reason:

Team Points
ManU 50
Chel 48
LFC 48

American Red
29 Jan 2009, 05:25 PM
There is no point calling for his head without a suitable realistic replacement available. Who would you bring in?

To be fair, several of your complaints are regarding player form. I'm not sure we can blame Rafa for that with the glaring exception being Keane. IMHO Rafa has crippled the man's confidence and robbed him of ample chance to prove his worth.

If in his opinion Keane is surplus to requirements Rafa should of made a sale or trade. Why keep him to rot on the bench. We will get less money for him in summer.

Wasn't Alonso carrying a slight knock and thats why he was rested?

Agreed that Rafe waits till TOO LATE to sub. Always has.

Kuyt was in great form early on in the season. Who can we replace him with? Gerard on the wing is the clear answer.

Regarding the "black arts" he is simply out-matched by Fergie. But so has every other manager of late with the possible exception of Jose.

American Red
29 Jan 2009, 05:28 PM
I'll give you a reason:

Team Points
ManU 50
Chel 48
LFC 48


Its a good point but it doesn't tell the whole story. Man U has a game in hand. Lets allow Rafa to prove his worth on sunday. However, another trophy-less season will seal his fate.

Fussballer
29 Jan 2009, 05:43 PM
There is no point calling for his head without a suitable realistic replacement available. Who would you bring in?

Sammy Lee, didn't you read the end on my rant?


Wasn't Alonso carrying a slight knock and thats why he was rested?


Nope, he was on the teamsheet.


Kuyt was in great form early on in the season. Who can we replace him with? Gerard on the wing is the clear answer.


Perhaps, but Yossi may be a better choice. But you do agree that Rafa's tactics choices are sometimes very poor?

Fussballer
29 Jan 2009, 05:44 PM
Its a good point but it doesn't tell the whole story. Man U has a game in hand. Lets allow Rafa to prove his worth on sunday. However, another trophy-less season will seal his fate.

Game in hand makes it even worse for us. In order for us to take the title, we would need to win every remaining game and have Man U lose 2 games. I don't see it happening.

el-capitano
29 Jan 2009, 06:39 PM
Sammy Lee eh?

This should be interesting! ;)

CCSC_STRIKER20
29 Jan 2009, 07:00 PM
Sammy Lee eh?

This should be interesting! ;)

No shit.

Bobinhood
29 Jan 2009, 07:24 PM
Look where we were when rafa took over.
Look where we are now.

WTF is the problem? One word people: PERSPECTIVE.

The russians and the crap are Supposed to be in front of us. They have significantly more money than we do. Even being close is an achievment in and of itself. I dont like that, but its a plain fact. suck it up. When we want to win the Prem (we do, badly, i know) we are asking for a fricking Rapture

Question: How many games have we lost since pre-season started?
Answer: 2. One late game 2-goal collapse to a redknapp inspired spurs team in a game we dominated, and a loss in the milk cup with the kids. Thats it. in what? 35? run-outs.

looking for a goal, he takes off a very tired midfielder after 80 mins and puts on a fresh striker of undoubted quality, and people question his sanity. ? ????

As for the so-called large number of players who have 'failed" here, hes working on a limited budget. he has no choice but to identify the very best prospects within that budget, bring them in and see if they can Over-Perform, since that is the requirement. Those that dont he moves on quickly and generally at break even or profits.

Its a steady upward trend, we get better and better as we go along, the youth team and reserves are much better also, the team is worth millions more than he paid for it and we just take it for granted we should win every game we play.

That in itself is a great endorsement of mr B.

January sucked, we drew 4 straight games that we should have won and it dented our chances badly. sh.it happens. It really pissed me off too but throwing rafa out with the bathwater is not for me.

the journo's can eat my shorts.

Out.

AndSomeAreAngels
29 Jan 2009, 07:39 PM
Game in hand makes it even worse for us. In order for us to take the title, we would need to win every remaining game and have Man U lose 2 games. I don't see it happening.

That's the only way? Fascinating stuff, this.


:rolleyes:

CCSC_STRIKER20
29 Jan 2009, 07:41 PM
Inability to manage Keane and Babel

I honestly don't know what to say about this. Rafa has never been a good man manager. Who do you want to replace Babel with? What about Keane? I don't exactly understand what you want Rafa to do with either of them. Keane can't play with Torres, and on top of that, our best formation is 4-2-3-1. One of them will play, one will sit. As for Babel, I think he should stay, unless we are going to replace him with someone who will provide legitimate competition to Riera.

Inability to request talent in Jan transfer window

Do you have some inside source that provides you with information from meetings between Benitez, Parry, and company? Because if you do. Please share. How do you know Benitez didn't ask for funds? Just because he said it in the press? Puh-leaze! At the time when discussions would start taking place for transfers we were actually doing quite well in the league.

Tactics anyone?

Yes. His tactics against Wigan were bad. His tactics earlier this season were questionable. However, in the long run, the big picture, Rafa's tactics are usually pretty good. Save for his substitution problem.

Kuyt

You either love him or hate him. I like Kuyt. We don't have a better, consistent option on the right side of midfield.

His row with Fergie is distracting

Agreed. I also think his row with Parry and the owners is more distracting.

Inability to inspire the troops anymore

I don't think that's an issue. Rafa expects his captain, his veteran players to do this. So you are calling them out more than Rafa.

Can anyone defend Rafa anymore? I'd love to hear some reasons why he shouldn't be sacked.

1. The entire club has improved since he took over from Houllier. Our youth team, our reserves, and our first-team have all improved. Rafa took what was virtually Houllier's squad+Alonso and Garcia, and won the Champions League. We have upgraded in a bunch of positions since the arrival of Benitez. Goalkeeper, Center Back, Left Back, Holding Midfielder, Right Midfield, Left Midfield, and Strikers.

2. SAF didn't win his first league title until five years after he took over. He didn't win the FA Cup until four years after he took over. He didn't win the Champions League for twelve years.

Wenger won the league and the FA Cup in his second year in charge, but that was with a very good defense already in place along with Keown and Bergkamp. As well as a one year prem experienced Vieira. He still hasn't won the Champions League.

3. Who would we get instead of Benitez? Lee?! I just choked on my Jimmy John's sub sandwich. Lee is a GREAT assistant, but I don't think he can cut it as a first team manager. Remember, he basically followed Rafa's orders when Benitez was sick. Lee won one match out of 11 before being fired, that was with an already assembled UEFA Cup caliber team.

4. It doesn't make sense.

5. We should get rid of Parry, Hicks, Gillett. Let Rafa manage. Give him two more years. Then if he still hasn't won the title, then we will talk.

6. It doesn't make sense.

royalstilton
29 Jan 2009, 07:41 PM
Game in hand makes it even worse for us. In order for us to take the title, we would need to win every remaining game and have Man U lose 2 games. I don't see it happening.
There are 15 remaining matches for Liverpool. If Liverpool wins 13 and draws two, then the Reds end with 89 points.

There are 16 remaining matches for ManU. If they win 12, draw 3 and lose one, they end with 89 points.

Then its down to goal differential.

Oooooops.

el-capitano
29 Jan 2009, 07:50 PM
Game in hand makes it even worse for us. In order for us to take the title, we would need to win every remaining game and have Man U lose 2 games. I don't see it happening.
Not to say it will happen here but have you forgotten Rangers & Celtic last year?

Rangers were 7 points clear with a game in hand with 7 games to go..... and we all know what happened then! ;)

http://i4.bebo.com/040a/12/mediuml/2008/05/23/22/4468920035a7821104887ml.jpg

AussieLFCfan
29 Jan 2009, 08:18 PM
Maybe Rafa has done all he can with this club? Who knows? However, Rafa must stay on until the club is sold and Parry is out. Then given a chance. If he cannot then deliver the goods it's time to move on.

liverbird
29 Jan 2009, 08:26 PM
WHAT THE ********! This is Liverpool Football Club -- we don't sack managers in midstream and we back the manager and the players as long as they give honest service. We are tied with Chelsea in second with 15 games to go. We haven't lost but once all year. You'll never walk alone means something more than just a song to sing when we win.

MY GOD IF YOU WANT TO BE A PLASTIC SUPPORTER GO OVER TO THE MANURE BOARD

CCSC_STRIKER20
29 Jan 2009, 09:23 PM
WHAT THE ********! This is Liverpool Football Club -- we don't sack managers in midstream and we back the manager and the players as long as they give honest service. We are tied with Chelsea in second with 15 games to go. We haven't lost but once all year. You'll never walk alone means something more than just a song to sing when we win.

MY GOD IF YOU WANT TO BE A PLASTIC SUPPORTER GO OVER TO THE MANURE BOARD

Will someone rep the man!?

el_urchinio
29 Jan 2009, 09:53 PM
Look where we were when rafa took over.
Look where we are now.

Ugh, not this argument again. I don't want to see Rafa go right now, but to say that we're somehow better off right now than we were under Houllier is disingenuous. The last four seasons, we finished, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, and 5th, in that order. Last four seasons under Ged, we finished 4th, 5th, 2nd, and 3rd. Improvement would be if we won the title before I'm grey and old. Or if we finished second a few years in a row. Of course, we're talking relative improvement here. The fact that are team is much better now than in 2001 is worth sh*t. Man U aren't exactly playing Quinton Fortune right now.

Oh, and the latest point in the season we had been top of the table since Kenny left was exactly 12 years ago on this day.

Boundzy
29 Jan 2009, 09:56 PM
Will someone rep the man!?
done

usa1950
29 Jan 2009, 09:56 PM
The front 5 against Wigan, with the game at 1-1, was surely shite.

Babel
Kuyt
Lucas
A damaged, out of form Keane
Riera, who should have come on earlier.

Has there been a less effective front 5 since the Morientes/Mellor days?


I'm not for sacking Rafa either at this point for reasons already mentions such as replacements etc., but if he's rejecting contracts due to lack of control over decisions at the club, his tactics and substitutions at the moment are not exactly earning him any bargaining chips.

ChanceTheDog
29 Jan 2009, 11:03 PM
I agree with you Fussballer (though I did'nt read all of your reasons, to long of a post for me I'm afraid).
It just comes down to I'm totally convinced that Rafa won't win the league, in which case we should try and find someone who might, simple as that. Now wether now's the best time to get rid I don't know. I guess that comes down to who's available and how much damage Rafa is doing to the squad. I suppose the only reason we should keep him for now (ok, IMO) is who would want to come here with what we've got going on?