What else will Chivas-USA do to attract mex-am fans

[Mr. Knowledge]

I'm all for Chivas USA. My question is what specifically do they need to do to attract Mex-American soccer supporters who up to this point have snubbed MLS and simply have their loyalties to their home club in Mexico?

I was trying to think of an analagous situation to see how I would take to Chivas USA if I was a Mexican-American w/ strong loyalties to a club back home in Mex.

If I was a huge baseball fan living in Japan. Moreover, let's assume their was a huge American population living in Japan that wasn't taking to the Japanese baseball league (which is a very good league but not to the level of MLB)b/c of loyalities to the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, ect..back in the states. Would I support a new team Yankees-JPN? I don't think I would just b/c they put some pinstripes on and brought over some American minor leaguers. However, on the flip side if they advertised in my first language a bit more, did promotions linked to the NY Yankees, and perhaps even bring over some Yankees to play, that would likely increase my interest. I guess this is what they are hoping to do and by slowly developing this relationship a loyalty will be established.

[uclacarlos]

Originally posted by Mr. Knowledge
I'm all for Chivas USA. My question is what specifically do they need to do to attract Mex-American soccer supporters who up to this point have snubbed MLS and simply have their loyalties to their home club in Mexico?

If I was a huge baseball fan living in Japan. Moreover, let's assume their was a huge American population living in Japan that wasn't taking to the Japanese baseball league (which is a very good league but not to the level of MLB)b/c of loyalities to the Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers, ect..back in the states. Would I support a new team Yankees-JPN? I don't think I would just b/c they put some pinstripes on and brought over some American minor leaguers. However, on the flip side if they advertised in my first language a bit more, did promotions linked to the NY Yankees, and perhaps even bring over some Yankees to play, that would likely increase my interest. I guess this is what they are hoping to do and by slowly developing this relationship a loyalty will be established.
The thing is that it is difficult to find a situation comparable to US-Mex given the sheer numbers of Mexicans residing in what was once their country and the 2nd class citizen status ascribed to them from the time of transfer of power through today. Add to the historico-social factors the volume of traffic of ppl, merchandise, etc, between the 2 countries. Then there are regional differences w/in the US (LA has a rising Mexican middle-class, SF/SJ not nearly as much), regional differences w/in the US-Mexican community as consumers of sports (the Mexican Pacific coast is baseball country, but the most popular team is ... Chivas!), etc.

To answer your question, how can you attract more Mexicans?

1. quality product on the field. Period.
2. quality stadia, facilities
3. economical pricing of tix (The Cathedral f'ed that up this year)
4. a style of play that is more similar to what they are used to seeing
5. calculated ethnic pandering (i.e.: QUALITY players that take MLS seriously; AND, more important, developing Mexican American players that will fill in the ranks of USMNT. Give 'em something they can recognize.

Notice I put #5 farther down on the list.

[Various Styles]

Originally posted by uclacarlos

developing Mexican American players that will fill in the ranks of USMNT. Give 'em something they can recognize..

This will be a key factor.. espeically because Mexican-Americans cant play in Club Guadalajara and will have similiar luck making the Mex National team. With Chivas USA they will have a team which will link them to US soccer in general. Now the only Mexies in the US Nat teams are Memo Gonzales who is still young ans has yet to make a name for himself, btw Vergara wants him for Chivas USA. And then theres BocaNegra who the Mexies cant identify with because he doesnt even speak spanish i dont think he ever watched teh MFL..

[Calexico77]

Which brings up an excellent point, will Vergara allow Pocho's on the team?

Maybe that can be the supporters club name

POCHOS USA!!

[Brother Badgerjohn]

I teach at a Hispanic High School in Dallas. My kids are already talking about it. They're begging for them to come to H-Town. I can easily see it being an ethnic rivalry (Hispanics-HoustonChivas; Anglos-Burn) in Texas.

They refuse to watch the Burn...They'd pack the house for Chivas.

[MiamiAce]

Originally posted by Brother Badgerjohn
I teach at a Hispanic High School in Dallas. My kids are already talking about it. They're begging for them to come to H-Town.

They refuse to watch the Burn...They'd pack the house for Chivas.

And thats the problem right there. Why should the MLS reward a team to any group of race and ethnicity within the U.S (black, white, red, green, Mexi, Euro, Martian) if they intentionally do not support the MLS right now for reasons of ethnicity? Especially with a team in their own city?! In my opinion, its super egoistic and uncalled for. I'm half Hispanic (Ecuadorian), I wouldn't dare boycott an MLS team if it came to Miami just because "its American and I'm something else". Nor would I wait around until an Ecuadorian-based club invests in an MLS team so as not to be "disloyal" to my roots or family. That's ridiculous. Honestly, its really really sad to hear you say that story. Because it is an example that portrays how many kids living in this country, who are either originally from another country like Mexico or whose parents are from another country, choose not to accept their lives fully in a new country and would rather despise the American culture than become part of it.

[Various Styles]

Originally posted by MiamiAce

And thats the problem right there. Why should the MLS reward a team to any group of race and ethnicity within the U.S (black, white, red, green, Mexi, Euro, Martian) if they intentionally do not support the MLS right now for reasons of ethnicity?

You are just hating. stop hating Sudaca.. and how do i know your hating? simple your above statement is full of crap.. first of all the MLS is not rewarding Mexicans with a Club.They are not paying for Chivas USA out of their own pocket. Vergara is buying into the league. You do know who Vergara is? He is the owner of Chivas Mex. And why the MLS allows him to buy into the league, well because its going broke..

Nor would I wait around until an Ecuadorian-based club invests in an MLS team so as not to be "disloyal" to my roots or family.

Yeah well Ecuador doesnt border the U.S if not then you will see things differently.. The Ecuadorian league or any other league for that matter isnt as available as the Mexican league in the U.S..

whose parents are from another country, choose not to accept their lives fully in a new country and would rather despise the American culture than become part of it.

Let me guess you dont speak Spanish.. And if you do you it has a heavy accent. You havent been fully accepted by your Sudaca peers in Miami for not being Latin enough? What is it MiamiAce, its ok im here to help.

[MiamiAce]

Originally posted by Various Styles
Originally posted by MiamiAce

And thats the problem right there. Why should the MLS reward a team to any group of race and ethnicity within the U.S (black, white, red, green, Mexi, Euro, Martian) if they intentionally do not support the MLS right now for reasons of ethnicity?

You are just hating. stop hating Sudaca.. and how do i know your hating? simple your above statement is full of crap.. first of all the MLS is not rewarding Mexicans with a Club.They are not paying for Chivas USA out of their own pocket. Vergara is buying into the league. You do know who Vergara is? He is the owner of Chivas Mex. And why the MLS allows him to buy into the league, well because its going broke..

Nor would I wait around until an Ecuadorian-based club invests in an MLS team so as not to be "disloyal" to my roots or family.

Yeah well Ecuador doesnt border the U.S if not then you will see things differently.. The Ecuadorian league or any other league for that matter isnt as available as the Mexican league in the U.S..

whose parents are from another country, choose not to accept their lives fully in a new country and would rather despise the American culture than become part of it.

Let me guess you dont speak Spanish.. And if you do you it has a heavy accent. You havent been fully accepted by your Sudaca peers in Miami for not being Latin enough? What is it MiamiAce, its ok im here to help.

You're a moderator? Wow, I would have never thought Big Soccer.com or any of its administrators would encourage any of its moderators to start fighting, or nonetheless start insulting any of its other users. Seriously, I'm shocked. Since I joined here not too long ago, I noticed that vulgar attitude and personal attacks are a norm around here, and let me say, I'm not use to that by NO means. I'm not claiming that I have never used a derogatory remark myself in my short time on this site, but I do try to avoid the Boards Wars. I enjoy discussing about soccer and all the related contents herein, but then I constantly notice the personal attacks I've received from 3 other pro-Chivas-USA users and now you, just because I simply don't agree with Chivas-USA as many others do not as well.. If this is the case, then I'll take my business elsewhere. As for me hating as you say? Hating on what? Since you brought it up... tell me what exactly you think I'm hating on?? I give an honest opinion about the subject, but yet it seems to me that your personal bias is trying to slam me down. As for my Spanish: Se mas Espanol que tu puedes imaginar. No tengo que explicar nada a ti simplemente porque te da la gana a comportar puerilmente. Si lo dudas jamás quién yo soy, entonces tu me puedes visitar y lo diré.

Now, if you would like to re-read the post I quoted, the quote I did NOT write, you'll notice who the real haters are. And its the kids who feel the need the boycott the MLS because its "American" and their not, or because "it sucks". I had said several times, I don't mind Vergara is investing money for an MLS team. In fact, thats great. I just don't agree with calling it "Chivas-USA" as a San Diego-based team, or because now the Mexican soccer fans living in the U.S. will come out of the woodworks to support something that is only Mexican-branded, not "American". Such as the the post I quoted but it seemed to fly over your head:

Originally posted by Brother Badgerjohn
I teach at a Hispanic High School in Dallas. My kids are already talking about it.

They refuse to watch the Burn...They'd pack the house for Chivas.

[uclacarlos]

MiamiAce doesn't hate?

What's this?
Originally posted by MiamiLice
You don't have the slightest clue how many Hispanic investors are deceiving when it comes to American regulations and procedure.
You receive "hate" b/c you spew hate. If you didn't ppl would leave you alone a lot more.

Mice, take a primer on Texas history. Texas Rangers have harrassed border Mexicans since the days of the Republic. This "arm of the law" has assassinated quite literally thousands of mexicans on the border. See Walter Prescott Webb's _The Texas Rangers_ (cambridge, 1935), a now disregarded academic work that admits up to 5,000 lynchings and killings between 1840's throught the 1930s. Webb, btw, is now disregarded b/c of his effusive PRAISE of the Pinche Rinches!

Much of South Eastern Texas wasn't even IN the state of Texas b4 Santa Ana got smacked at the Alamo and ceded the most fertile part of another state to the new republic. These ppl had zero choice in the matter, whereas the Mexicans in Texas actively fought against the federal government.

Bear in mind that MExican antipathy towards the US is a complex issue that stems from the loss of HALF of Mexico's territory to the US, which actively and descaradamente proclaimed their intention to take over the land. The seeds of mistrust were sown well before the Mexican federal government had to ward off separatist movements in the Yucatan, Zacatecas, California, Texas, Chiapas, etc. (Texans often times fail to realize that if Zacatecas, had had louder rumblings of discontent, Zacatecas would have probably gained its freedom. It just so happens that the loudest rumblings happened first in Texas. But I digress...)

Assimilation is a complex issue that cannot be summised in one or two sentences that spew forth ideals. Yes, I can complain about the Chinese and Vietnamese that refuse to assimilate in my Oakland ghetto, but that would fail to take into account that the Chinese were FORCED to move across the Bay b/c China Town San Francisco was over crowded and they weren't allowed to live anywhere else in the city.

What came first: Mexican resentment of the US? Or the US mistrust of MExicans? (There is no answer.)

[sidspaceman]

MiamiAce doesn't hate he is a true man of integrity. :rolleyes:


Originally posted by MiamiAce
And I hate to break it to Garber and the MLS, but Mexican-soccer is the worst and most unattractive style of football in the world.

Originally posted by MiamiAce
Jorge Vergara will be so quick to smuggle more Mexicans into the US that he'll make Speedy Gonzalez look like a slow Pakistanian.

[MiamiAce]

uclacarlos: Thanks for quoting me again. But rather than quote a small piece of what I said and trying to fool readers with your quick tricks, why don't I quote the whole post I said? That way we all understand (including you) what I was implying and have witnessed in my profession and as an Hispanic. Thank me later.
Originally posted by MiamiAce
I tried to imply that I wouldnt mind an all-Mexican or Hispanic team based in a Mexican city playing in the MLS. THAT makes sense.

I said Vergara is manipulative and devisive. Its so easy for you to be impartial on this matter when you speak all the way from Michigan. You don't have the slightest clue how many Hispanic investors are deceiving when it comes to American regulations and procedure. (And yes, I can say that because I'm part Hispanic and live in Miami). Trust me, I've seen it first-hand!!

Lastly, I never said Vergara is going to get everything he wants. Again, you said that. But you missed the whole point completely.The fact that it WAS reported on MLSnet.com that Vergara openly and publicly mentioned he wants to field an all-Mexican team as he does with Guadalajara should be enough of an indication to everyone of what his intentions are, and how decisive he can be. Its like if a man asks if he can take his gun on an airplane but is denied... are you going to leave it at that??

So you see, if someone were to use your tricks, I guess they can quote this what you said in the MLS forum:
Originally posted by uclacarlos
I'm Dominican. I know plenty about corruption!

Yikes!! Did you just agree with me?? As of matter of fact, you said that right after several people agreed that Vergara got rich through plenty of corruption! Not looking good with partial quotes.

As for the unwanted history lessons and personal opinion thereof... Tell someone who cares!! That was the biggest crack of sack I've ever stared at in my life. Geez. I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you describe the part where Mexico, newly independent from Spain in the 1820's was in desperate need for settlers in the very very under-populated areas of northern Mexico? Yes, as a matter of fact, guess who were welcomed? Thats right, Americans. The U.S. had the people to settle the lands as many people left the over-crowded eastern cities and headed westward. However, the U.S.-born settlers who moved into the province of Texas had to give an oath of allegiance to Mexico and convert to Catholicism, the state religion. So thousands of Americans took the offer, and many headed over with slaves. But guess what? The "Texicans" were unhappy with the way the government in Mexico City tried to run the province. In 1835, they revolted! After many bloody battles, Texas was given its independence as Santa Anna signed the Treaty of Velasco in 1836 (but indeed, she was held captive by the Texans at the time). Due to some continuing border fighting afterwards (as in any war between neighboring countries), Texans viewed the Mexicans as hostile and so joined the United States on their will, despite the fact that other states like Louisiana and Missouri did NOT want Texas into the Union for fear of their size.

So what's the point of this? The point is the United States did not "take over the land" of the Texans as you and some others falsely perceive. They first fought for their own independence, without the U.S., and then voluntarily joined the Union. As for California, well thats a different story. The early Californos did not have much a choice. The Mexican-American War that resulted from the border disputes after the Independence of Texas saw the US take possession of much of northern Mexico west of Texas. But whats important to realize of all this is that while Mexico had claims to these northern terrorities, they never had the people to settle the lands, while the U.S. did. I'm not trying to justify any war or possessions of land, but it was almost inevitable if the lands were wide open and poorly protected. I guess thats why the French were able to occupy Mexico City in the 1860's? Do the Mexicans also despise the French?But I guess you don't know about that. Wheeew. I'm done giving the real stories on history (I can't believe I did).

Let's just stick to talking about soccer without adding a spin of propaganda as a means to justify why Mexicans don't like the United States throughout their history, because you will find out there is no legit reason to detest thy neighbor.

[efernandez9]

tal vez en espanol este ecua entienda: chivas USA no es para mexicanos solamente

es para latinos nacidos en USA...tendran una oportunidad que otros en MLS no nos dieron! espere a ver el producto que seguro sera reforzado por 2 o 3 de renombre..... es el momento de apoyar, ya perdimos al Mutiny y a su fusion....tenga paciencia y no se confunda.

empesaste el thread o conversacion diciendo que "I'm all for Chivas USA." Y despues le decis a various que no estas de acuerdo...?????? ummmm


debes leer los otros 20 comentarios y 10 mas threads en que tratamos de educar a los ignorantes que al ver un dueño mexicano, creen que el equipo sera igual.... Vergara seguira las reglas de MLS.... la pregunta es: sera posible lograr 15 o 17 muchachos de origen latino que puedan competir con los MLS y sus anglos?

[uclacarlos]

Mice,
WOW. You may have just redeemed yourself through a decent overview of Texas history.
Originally posted by MiamiAce
I'm not sure if you mentioned it, but did you describe the part where ... (t)he "Texicans" were unhappy with the way the government in Mexico City tried to run the province.
That was implied by the mention of several other states and what should have been construed as a universal dissatisfaction w/ the federal government.
Originally posted by MiamiAce
The point is the United States did not "take over the land" of the Texans as you and some others falsely perceive.
You are absolutely wrong. The northern part of Nuevo Leon was taken from that state and given to Texas.
Originally posted by MiamiAce
They first fought for their own independence, without the U.S., and then voluntarily joined the Union...
By then, "they" were the white Texans primarily. In the time of the Republic, there was an all-out assault on the Texas Mexicans (por parte de los Rinches) to place them in an inferior socio-economic position.

And if you still believe that Sam Houston et al had no intention of making Texas another slave state for the Union, try reading his letters. It would be naive to think otherwise.
Originally posted by MiamiAce
Let's just stick to talking about soccer without adding a spin of propaganda as a means to justify why Mexicans don't like the United States throughout their history, because you will find out there is no legit reason to detest thy neighbor.
My entire point, which seems to escape you (no suprise) is that the relationship between Mexico and the United States as it plays out in Texas is one that was born in a contentious time. There is a tremendous amount of myth that surrounds the fabricated Texan identity. (I personally believe that all national identities are fabricated, it's just that Texas is a special case.) And given the fact that more Mexicans have been lynched in the South West more than blacks in the entire US from the Civil War to WWI, it would be foolish to think that it does not factor into the day to day reality of the Mexican American. I've lived it personally. I've had to face a group of skin heads at night. I've dealt w/ overpaying for rent and/or living in ghettos b/c my "neighbors" don't want too many latinos in their neighborhood. Damn straight I'm a bit pissed off at my "neighbor". I went from a military dictatorship where Catalan was prohibited, to SoCal. The socio-linguistic pressure in SoCal in the 70s was far greater than the military dictatorship.

Besides, the entire point of the Dallas HS teacher was that Chivas will INCORPORATE his students into MLS, a job that the Burn haven't done well enough. It's an important step in assimilation.

Originally posted by MiamiAce
uclacarlos: Thanks for quoting me again. But rather than quote a small piece of what I said and trying to fool readers with your quick tricks, why don't I quote the whole post I said?
The rest of the post doesn't redeem you, btw. I'm still waiting for statistics that back up your stereotype.

[Calexico77]

The question regarding "What else will Chivas-USA do to attract mex-am fans?" has now been answered.

VERGARA SHOULD STOP ASSASINATING ILLEGALS AND GIVE NUEVO LEON BACK TO MEXICO!!!

That'll get them in the seats, although I don't know if MLS rules will allow it.

[MiamiAce]

Originally posted by uclacarlos
Besides, the entire point of the Dallas HS teacher was that Chivas will INCORPORATE his students into MLS, a job that the Burn haven't done well enough. It's an important step in assimilation.
A job that the Burn haven't done well? Ha! Laugable!! Let me bring up the quote again:
Originally posted by Brother Badgerjohn
They refuse to watch the Burn...They'd pack the house for Chivas.
Now what part of 'refuse' did not compute in your little brain? Let me quote the dictionary for you..

Re*fuse" [v] 1.show unwillingness towards. 2.to decline to accept;
to reject; to deny the request or petition of.

Sounds like a choice to me, don't you agree?

The rest of the post doesn't redeem you, btw. I'm still waiting for statistics that back up your stereotype.
I got the one statistic you need right here:
Originally posted by uclacarlos
I'm Dominican. I know plenty about corruption!
Boom!!

[Calexico77]

Please go away.

[kpaulson]

si ya veremos si entiende mejor

bueno te gusta hablar del futbol si? pues entonces seria mejor k hagas preguntas y escuches un poco porque ahora mismo no sabes lo suficiente como para hablar con seriedad. ni siquiera entendias el sistema de promocion asi k dudo mucho k llevas mucho tiempo siguiendo este deporte.

a ver-- hacemos un trato, carlos, tu y yo: si hablas del futbol (y no del "racismo"-- palabra k no entiendes), no te molestaremos nunca jamas, ok?

[uclacarlos]

Originally posted by MiamiAce
I got the one statistic you need right here:
Boom!!
Boom is not a statistic.

A statistic is "a numerical fact or data".

The fact that I have seen corruption b/c of my experience in 1st and 3rd world countries (and yes, I consider the US a corrupt country) does not mean that Latinos are more corrupt per se. Corruption is a systemic problem, not a cultural problem. When human beings take advantage of systemic flaws, it has to do w/ the system, not what language they speak or what holidays they celebrate.

So MiamiLice, I'm still waiting for empirical data that supports your stereotype.

At least w/ the theme of corruption, we are at least tangentially talking about futbol. Heaven knows that corruption plagues the industry.

[Various Styles]

Originally posted by MiamiAce

I noticed that vulgar attitude and personal attacks are a norm around here, and let me say, bla, bla, blah..

Your not going to cry now are you? Here have some Hot cocoa. I even put two extra marshmellows in it for you..

If this is the case, then I'll take my business elsewhere.

No you wont.. You are having fun here. Why leave? I bet you anxiously await the replies.

And its the kids who feel the need the boycott the MLS because its "American" and their not, or because "it sucks". I had said several times, I don't mind Vergara is investing money for an MLS team.

Yeah Kids boycotting MLS because its American.. Do these same kids boycott the MFL, MLB ect.. Get your head out of your Arse.. The problem is more deep than this and i am not going to explain it to you.. You can yap on all you want it aint gonna change MLS mind..

In fact, thats great. I just don't agree with calling it "Chivas-USA" as a San Diego-based team

In fact it doesnt matter what you think.. This team isnt beign brought to lure you in. Your allready a fan go worry about your current club..

now the Mexican soccer fans living in the U.S. will come out of the woodworks to support something that is only Mexican-branded, not "American".

Yeah how much more Mexican can you get with the Words USA and playing in MLS with the mayority of players being Americans.. Chivas aint too diffrent from other Mexican names like San Diego, Los Angeles and San Jose. If you think about it Chivas USA aint no diffrent from Mc Donalds selling Breakfast burritos or Burger King selling Tacos..

[Viking64]

Originally posted by Various Styles
[i]If you think about it Chivas USA aint no diffrent from Mc Donalds selling Breakfast burritos or Burger King selling Tacos.. Burger King didn't sell tacos here last I checked;)

but I will say this is the most interesting thing to be posted in this thread. (ok, the Texas history lesson was fun too, but anyway...)

The only thing that Vergara has to do is hire an hispanic gm, hispanic coach, and hispanic assistant coach, and not lose a lot. The actual ethnicity of the players is not as important as you think it is.

All the other stuff is more or less unimportant. The Dallas Burn has done almost all of the "unimportant", PLUS was the first team to focus extensively on the hispanic market. They courted the hispanic market a long time...but as we saw with the kiddos who refused to support the Burn, there was always something wrong with the Burn that many hispanics in the market did not like.

A lot of hispanics, especially Mexican born and Mexican Americans, never liked the Burn and still don't because Mexican's (or Mex-Am) were not and are not running the show.

Mexican/MexAmericans will never trust that they are being treated fairly unless it's from another. Go ahead, try to deny it, but I'll laugh in your face. The deep distrust of the relationship between M/MexAm and nonhispanics is all about who is running the show. If Mx/MexAm see one of their own at the top, middle, and bottom of MANAGEMENT they will lend their support. That's why a lot of perhapsBurn fans went berserk when the Burn appointed a non-hispanic GM, non-hispanic head coach, and lost their previous gm who was hispanic. Then they topped it off by saying "winning is our ethnicity." A truly noble mistake.

If you respond, please don't say:
1. When the tables are turned, hispanics are just as subject to distrust as nonhispanics in position of power (duh, I know, but it's beside my point of 'if Mx/Mexams run the team they will get support from other hispanics')
2. Mexicans are just as adept at screwing each other as nonhispanics are of screwing hispanics (also true)
3. Mexican and Mexican Americans won't be happy unless they have a 100 percent Mexican or Hispanic operation (for a few this might be true, but the target segment of MLS is not this narrow minded. At least I hope not)

Having "one of their own" run the team is the only way that SOME HISPANICS will accept the team. The record in Dallas shows that FOR SOME acceptance is only possible when management power and player/coaching decisions are the domain of an Hispanic.

If Chivas USA outdraw the Galaxy, then I'll be right. If not, well I tried. But even if I am wrong about the LA situation, that does not mean I'm wrong about Dallas.