Robbie Keane Thread

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Okay, now that we are over half way into the season and finally have almost all of our players back healthy, I think it is time that we discuss the big elephant in the room.

Robbie Keane and his performance this season.

I was willing to give Keane a break the first half of the season. Even though he isn't new to the Premiership, he had to learn to play with new teammates in a new system. His teammates also had to learn to play with him. I am also willing to give him a break because he has been trying to play 3 positions in two different systems (Striker in 4-4-2, Wide Right in 4-2-3-1, and Lone Striker in 4-2-3-1).

Keane struggled early on, but many supporters have to admit he was starting to come into his own around December. He wasn't scoring a ton of goals, but he was looking more and more dangerous. However, a couple of weeks have passed and he has gone back down to his performances earlier in the season.

I am starting to run out of excuses for him.

In my opinion, he needs to start performing better, and he better start performing better soon. I am not too worried about goal numbers, but he looked terrible against Everton on Monday. I think a lot of LFC supporters and journalists are going to start criticizing Keane more openly.

I like Robbie Keane as a player. He was one of my favorite non-Liverpool players before he arrived at Anfield. However, I have expected much better from him.

Am I being too harsh? What is his deal?

He can't figure out how to play with Torres and Gerrard. Which is a problem, because he isn't good enough to where we are going to reconfigure our system around him.

What do you think Keane can do to improve his performances? Is there anything Rafa or the other players can do to help him?

I don't want to sell him, but I am getting tired of seeing these lackluster performances from an obviously talented striker.

[blanconi]

Wait until the season is over. Might be a bit late if things don't go our way, but I am willing to wait 'till May before I draw my conclusions. Having said that, I do recognize that as of yet he has not performed well enough to justify his price-tag.

[newterp]

simply put - he needs to play 5-6 straight games with Torres in all comps. I had posted stats earlier that Robbie and Torres had played together a total of 8 games in all comps, now 9 with everton (and 30 more minutes with Aston Villa).

Get them to 20 games together and see the results.

For example against Everton - he made the correct run alongside Torres on the shot that Torres botched (though I chalk that up to rust). Keane was available should Torres have passed.

Conversely - showing his lack of confidence - he got a ball in the box (via deflection or something) and pulled a Dirk - the ball bounded too far away and allowed the defender to clear.

problem for him is that he probably knows that around 60 minutes that if he hasn't produced, he is in trouble. And that's a tough hill to have to battle.

[L_I_V_ERP_doubleO_L]

simply put - he needs to play 5-6 straight games with Torres in all comps. I had posted stats earlier that Robbie and Torres had played together a total of 8 games in all comps, now 9 with everton (and 30 more minutes with Aston Villa).

Get them to 20 games together and see the results.

For example against Everton - he made the correct run alongside Torres on the shot that Torres botched (though I chalk that up to rust). Keane was available should Torres have passed.

Conversely - showing his lack of confidence - he got a ball in the box (via deflection or something) and pulled a Dirk - the ball bounded too far away and allowed the defender to clear.

problem for him is that he probably knows that around 60 minutes that if he hasn't produced, he is in trouble. And that's a tough hill to have to battle.

I am thinking along these same lines. He hasn't played enough with Torres yet. I like him too much to give up on him, so my opinion is probably biased.

And i dont always understand why Rafa takes him out. There have been a few times this year when he playing well and Rafa makes the switch seemingly because he hasn't scored. Didn't Rafa take him out even when he had a brace? If you can't get a full run when you're going for a hat trick, it's got to get into your head. I'm sure he has his reasons.

There have been times though when Robbie's rubbed me the wrong way. It seems he takes his frustrations out on other teammates and shows them up when they don't pass or put the pass in the wrong spot, or not right where he wants it. That act gets old pretty quick. But maybe he's just pressing.

I'm sure it's more frustrating to him than to all of us combined.

[newterp]

holy crap - I forgot - on the play where Torres got bumped for what would have been a soft penalty - Keane was absolutely mauled in the box and knocked over. This was a second after he passed the ball the Torres - he also could have gotten a penalty.

[el-capitano]

So- half way through the season and he's scored 7 goals, broken down into 5 league and 2 European goals.

So even if he continues at this rate with no improvement he'll have 14 at seasons end.

If Torres & Keane get it together he might score more. Everyone knows he can do it- even Rushy (http://www.goal.com/en/news/1713/liverpool/2009/01/17/1064840/torres-and-keane-can-become-liverpool-greats-ian-rush) has had his two pence worth.

The pic on the article is funny too- but not funny in a good way as a Red! ;)

I'll give him time- he's not that far off his typical goal scoring rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbie_Keane

[Taliwakker]

Keane was available should Torres have passed.


Hasn't Keane botched at least 3 or 4 (what should have been easy) tap ins this season...he probably would have missed.
He really does need at least 5-6 games in a row (at least to 75 mins) with Torres to see if they can't get it going and get some of the confidence back. Everytime he seems to be getting somewhere Rafa seems to bench him for a few games and its back to square one.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Hasn't Keane botched at least 3 or 4 (what should have been easy) tap ins this season...he probably would have missed.

Yes. Before he scored his first league goal, he missed some ridiculous sitters. It was almost like he was cursed.

I think it should also be addressed that this isn't just Keane's problem. The addition of Keane changes what all of our other midfielders and strikers are expected to do.

Not only does Keane have to learn to play with Kuyt, Torres, Gerrard, etc. They also have to do a better job of learning to play with him.

I am hoping they figure it out. :)

[Fussballer]

Well, it certainly makes you think when you see 3 former LFC strikers in the top 10 EPL scorers (Cisse, Crouch & Owen with 8) and your newest signing struggling for goals and time. It's obvious he ain't going anywhere so Rafa needs to play him into the ground until his consistent form appears. Put it this way, he's more of a threat than Kuyt up top.

[el-capitano]

4 former strikers if you include Anelka on 14! ;)

[Grinners89]

4 former strikers if you include Anelka on 14! ;)

The difference is that most of those players have a system suited to their strengths, rather than them trying to fit into a system.

[LiverMorgh]

He needs to play more and be given the confidence to play the full 90. Robbie seems to be one of those players that needs a pat on the back more and he needs Rafa to give him some consistent reasoning. Whether he scores or not, it seems he is not promised a spot - which I think is wrong, and if Keane is given more time and confidence he will repay that extra faith given.

Seriously, when you contrast it with the faith Rafa has with Kuyt it's teetering on the ridiculous. Kuyt is on the full 90 no matter what. It just seems inconsistent.

[Grinners89]

He needs to play more and be given the confidence to play the full 90. Robbie seems to be one of those players that needs a pat on the back more and he needs Rafa to give him some consistent reasoning. Whether he scores or not, it seems he is not promised a spot - which I think is wrong, and if Keane is given more time and confidence he will repay that extra faith given.

Seriously, when you contrast it with the faith Rafa has with Kuyt it's teetering on the ridiculous. Kuyt is on the full 90 no matter what. It just seems inconsistent.

No one is promised a consistent spot in the team apart from Carragher, Gerrard and Torres. The former two are our leaders...one organises the defence and the other is the best midfielder in the world. Torres needs no explanation as when he is fit, he is arguable the best centre-forward in the world.

Kuyt plays on the right and has to compete with Yossi and El Zhar, while Keane plays up front and has to compete with Torres. Kuyt is clearly our best option on the right flank as Yossi is inconsistent and El Zhar probably isnt good enough yet to play 90 minutes and contribute for 90 minutes.

Kuyt also as one of the best attitudes in the club...hard working, never complains and does everything he can for the team. Robbie seems to have gone into "Robbie mode" rather than doing everything he can for the team. As Agger said in a recent interview..."as long as you work hard, everything else will come to you". That's the kind of attitude that Robbie needs to show. He has been given plenty of opportunities while other players such as Hyypia, Agger, Lucas, Yossi, Babel and even Pennant havent shown any sort of poor attitude despite all of those players getting half as many appearances as Keane.

[LiverMorgh]

No one is promised a consistent spot in the team apart from Carragher, Gerrard and Torres. The former two are our leaders...one organises the defence and the other is the best midfielder in the world. Torres needs no explanation as when he is fit, he is arguable the best centre-forward in the world.

No, I'd say Alonso and Kuyt are pretty much promised a spot. Alonso probably deservedly though.

Although my point has nothing to do with being guaranteed a spot but everything to do with giving trust or just plain rolling the dice. Expecting lightning to strike on the first go and then quickly recoiling won't solve the problem. Keane must feel lost because regardless what he does he is taken off. Rafa just had an interview and in it he pretty much said what everyone knows: strikers work on confidence; playing and scoring goals will give them confidence.

I just wish he used that logic with Keane.

Kuyt plays on the right and has to compete with Yossi and El Zhar, while Keane plays up front and has to compete with Torres. Kuyt is clearly our best option on the right flank as Yossi is inconsistent and El Zhar probably isnt good enough yet to play 90 minutes and contribute for 90 minutes.No, Keane does not compete with Torres. They play together most the time when both are fit. Keane seems to compete with Kuyt, which just seems absolutely silly. Look at the subs: Kuyt goes to Keane's position and Benayoun/x-winger into Kuyt's. What does that do? Keane is a better forward than Kuyt and will run his ass off just as much. Hardly any logic behind it. Hardly any logic behind benching him when he is on a scoring run and you have a week till your next game.

Kuyt also as one of the best attitudes in the club...hard working, never complains and does everything he can for the team. Robbie seems to have gone into "Robbie mode" rather than doing everything he can for the team. As Agger said in a recent interview..."as long as you work hard, everything else will come to you". That's the kind of attitude that Robbie needs to show. He has been given plenty of opportunities while other players such as Hyypia, Agger, Lucas, Yossi, Babel and even Pennant havent shown any sort of poor attitude despite all of those players getting half as many appearances as Keane.See, you always cross this line from a fan to an apologist. Kuyt's attitude should not buy him a spot in the team. If anything, Kuyt's poor form of late should see him getting quite a bit of bench time. Why doesn't he get it?

Keane continued to work hard and as soon as he hit a patch of confidence he was illogically benched. The rest of your post is non-sense. You don't know Robbie Keane nor the effort he puts into training. Stop generalising. It's ok, Rafa makes mistakes too. You can take off the rose-tinted glasses, this is our own forum.

[Grinners89]

No, I'd say Alonso and Kuyt are pretty much promised a spot. Alonso probably deservedly though.

Although my point has nothing to do with being guaranteed a spot but everything to do with giving trust or just plain rolling the dice. Expecting lightning to strike on the first go and then quickly recoiling won't solve the problem. Keane must feel lost because regardless what he does he is taken off. Rafa just had an interview and in it he pretty much said what everyone knows: strikers work on confidence; playing and scoring goals will give them confidence.

I just wish he used that logic with Keane.

No, Keane does not compete with Torres. They play together most the time when both are fit. Keane seems to compete with Kuyt, which just seems absolutely silly. Look at the subs: Kuyt goes to Keane's position and Benayoun/x-winger into Kuyt's. What does that do? Keane is a better forward than Kuyt and will run his ass off just as much. Hardly any logic behind it. Hardly any logic behind benching him when he is on a scoring run and you have a week till your next game.

See, you always cross this line from a fan to an apologist. Kuyt's attitude should not buy him a spot in the team. If anything, Kuyt's poor form of late should see him getting quite a bit of bench time. Why doesn't he get it?

Keane continued to work hard and as soon as he hit a patch of confidence he was illogically benched. The rest of your post is non-sense. You don't know Robbie Keane nor the effort he puts into training. Stop generalising. It's ok, Rafa makes mistakes too. You can take off the rose-tinted glasses, this is our own forum.

Gee...someone has an agenda against me :rolleyes:

Alonso has earnt his spot and in a 4-4-2, he will usually start ahead of Mascherano. Therefore, Keane is actually being rotated with Masch depending on the system that we are playing. Its either Masch and 4-2-3-1 or Keane and 4-4-2.

Also Keane cant be competing with Kuyt for a position, given that both have made more than 25 appearances, most from the start. Apart from the Arsenal goal, Keane hasnt scored against very high quality defences...even the Arsenal defence cant be counted as high quality.

Its either Yossi or Kuyt starting on the right, and Yossi's form doesnt warrant him starting over Kuyt.

Its funny that you attack me for defending certain people in the club and when i dont defend Keane, you start defending a player that has contributed very little this season. Work yourself out before you become a hypocrite and attack others.

[LiverMorgh]

Gee...someone has an agenda against me :rolleyes:

I don't really have anything against you personally, as I don't know you. If I have dislike, it is in the manner of your posts in which you seem to see yourself as some voice to reply to every concern as if you hold the answer. You don't.

Alonso has earnt his spot and in a 4-4-2, he will usually start ahead of Mascherano. Therefore, Keane is actually being rotated with Masch depending on the system that we are playing. Its either Masch and 4-2-3-1 or Keane and 4-4-2.You must have not read my post. I already said Alonso earned his spot.

Also Keane cant be competing with Kuyt for a position, given that both have made more than 25 appearances, most from the start. Apart from the Arsenal goal, Keane hasnt scored against very high quality defences...even the Arsenal defence cant be counted as high quality.No, but they seem to be doing as such. When Keane comes off, numerous times it has been Kuyt that has taken his position when a winger has come on. In some games, i.e. the Newcastle game and the one after it, Kuyt has actually been the preferred forward and Keane was not even subbed in the game. Instead, count how many full games Keane has had and how many Kuyt has had. Trying to pass it off as if Keane has a poor attitude... :rolleyes: please... there is not an excuse nor reason for everything. Some choices are simply bad ones.

Its either Yossi or Kuyt starting on the right, and Yossi's form doesnt warrant him starting over Kuyt.I'm sorry, Kuyt's form doesn't warrant him starting over Yossi. Yossi hardly plays in comparison. Kuyt has been below-par now for numerous games on a stretch. He should not be untouchable. That's the contention.

Its funny that you attack me for defending certain people in the club and when i dont defend Keane, you start defending a player that has contributed very little this season. Work yourself out before you become a hypocrite and attack others.You're an apologist. You are the anti-fan in many respects. Everyone here is a Liverpool fan and wishes to address her problems - not try to brush everything under the carpet as if it never happened or that it doesn't deserve the attention to begin with. You can sort yourself out or you can just not reply to me. You'll do us both a favour, because I'd rather not listen to your inane excuses and I am sure you'd rather someone who would.

[CCSC_STRIKER20]

Back to your corners boys! :cool:

Kuyt's form surely doesn't deserve an automatic starting spot, but honestly, who else is there. It's a lie to say Benayoun and Babel have been playing well consistently enough for them to deserve that spot over Kuyt.

I agree with Grinners. Keane and Mascherano are rotated, depending on injuries and formation of course.

Like drobny wrote recently on one of these threads. This is a good problem to have.

As for Keane's attitude. It's hard to judge his attitude by his facial expressions and the way he is playing. Because then we are just guessing how he is feeling. Obviously there isn't too much wrong with his attitude or Rafa would bench him for an extended period of time like he has with other players that present a poor attitude.

Again. I hope Keane comes good. I think Keane will come good. The biggest problem is it takes time to find the chemistry we want, and right now, we don't have the time or the room for a run of semi-poor results.

[Grinners89]

I don't really have anything against you personally, as I don't know you. If I have dislike, it is in the manner of your posts in which you seem to see yourself as some voice to reply to every concern as if you hold the answer. You don't.

I dont have the answer to everything...if i did, there wouldnt be much point living now would there? I have admitted many times that i have been wrong in many of my posts. If im stating an opinion, there is no need to get so black and white...im allowed an opinion and so is everyone else on this forum.

You must have not read my post. I already said Alonso earned his spot.

I agreed with you and you're still attacking me...maybe you need to take a bit more time in reading what i said :confused:. I said, yes, Alonso has earned his spot etc etc.

No, but they seem to be doing as such. When Keane comes off, numerous times it has been Kuyt that has taken his position when a winger has come on. In some games, i.e. the Newcastle game and the one after it, Kuyt has actually been the preferred forward and Keane was not even subbed in the game. Instead, count how many full games Keane has had and how many Kuyt has had. Trying to pass it off as if Keane has a poor attitude... :rolleyes: please... there is not an excuse nor reason for everything. Some choices are simply bad ones.

If you are using the Newcastle match as an example...then kudos to Kuyt as his contribution helped the team dominate the match and he held the ball up for the likes of Gerrard, Yossi and Babel. Did you notice the space that Kuyt made when Lucas made the assist to Gerrard? Rafa put his faith in Dirk and in that match, he performed. In the next match, Rafa stuck with the same XI or close to as he again put faith in the team that thrashed Newcastle. Obviously it didnt work as we couldnt score against Stoke.

I'm sorry, Kuyt's form doesn't warrant him starting over Yossi. Yossi hardly plays in comparison. Kuyt has been below-par now for numerous games on a stretch. He should not be untouchable. That's the contention.

Defensively, Yossi cant compare to the cover that Kuyt gives the right-back. As shown by his stupid tackle against Everton, he is a liability without the ball and Everton (Baines and Pienaar) took full advantage of it. Those two made Carra look poor, even though Carra was doing all he could given he was up against 2 players.

Stats-wise in attack...Yossi has 1 goal and 3 assists from 22 appearances. Kuyt has 7 goals and 5 assists from 27 appearances.

In the votes for MOTM this season...Kuyt has 2 MOTM's as voted by the fans and 3 as voted by the LFC.tv journalists...Yossi has none in either category.

I never said that Kuyt was untouchable and i dont think he should be. Reina, Carra, Mascherano, Alonso (this season due to outstanding form), Gerrard and Torres are our spine. If all those players are on the field...then there is also no room for Keane.

Im another person who thinks that our RB and RW positions need to be upgraded for us to have a "complete" squad as Yossi and El Zhar so far havent been or arent yet good enough to challenge Kuyt. Anderson is a player that should be given a go in the squad next season to genuinely challenge Kuyt and be given the opportunity to become a 1st XI player.

Although Yossi might not start as often...he has many more matches than Kuyt and any other Liverpool player where he goes missing for 60 minutes. He hasnt shown in one single game against a quality opposition defence that he can be dangerous in a match for 90 minutes. Kuyt has the record on the board against all the big teams and that counts for a lot more than scoring against lesser clubs.

You're an apologist. You are the anti-fan in many respects. Everyone here is a Liverpool fan and wishes to address her problems - not try to brush everything under the carpet as if it never happened or that it doesn't deserve the attention to begin with. You can sort yourself out or you can just not reply to me. You'll do us both a favour, because I'd rather not listen to your inane excuses and I am sure you'd rather someone who would.

Sure...good for you.

I dont need to back up my committment and support to Liverpool as anyone who knows me knows how much i care for this club.

[Grinners89]

Back to your corners boys! :cool:

Kuyt's form surely doesn't deserve an automatic starting spot, but honestly, who else is there. It's a lie to say Benayoun and Babel have been playing well consistently enough for them to deserve that spot over Kuyt.

I agree with Grinners. Keane and Mascherano are rotated, depending on injuries and formation of course.

Like drobny wrote recently on one of these threads. This is a good problem to have.

As for Keane's attitude. It's hard to judge his attitude by his facial expressions and the way he is playing. Because then we are just guessing how he is feeling. Obviously there isn't too much wrong with his attitude or Rafa would bench him for an extended period of time like he has with other players that present a poor attitude.

Again. I hope Keane comes good. I think Keane will come good. The biggest problem is it takes time to find the chemistry we want, and right now, we don't have the time or the room for a run of semi-poor results.

Well put and your last sentence is exactly the main problem.

With Masch, Alonso, Stevie and Torres all fit...Keane doesnt fit into the spine of the team and apart from the FA Cup and fixtures like Wigan (mid-week fixtures before big matches, eg Chelsea) are the main matches that we can alter that spine. Gerrard is much better than Keane at the moment behind Torres and Masch and Alonso offer us much better ball retention and the ability to close down other team's forwards so we probably arent going to see Keane and Torres playing 10 matches in a row together until next season.

[usscouse]

This Grinners / LiverMorgh thing is quite funny really. These guys are so much alike when they post. Black and white, hard and fast opinions, sometimes it's hard to tell them apart. And absolutely absent of any humour at all.

Once you know them though they're both realy knowlegable and post some excellent stuff. I enjoy reading both.

Got to learn to agree to disagree without rancour boys.