Outclassed!

[gotyourback]

the burn were outclassed tonite... not because the quakes played 'overly-well', but because have no consistency on offensive whatsoever... the only time rhine can score is if he has a wide open clear shot on net (he's a very lazy player off the ball), and i think it's a real shame that cerritos wasn't given the time he deserves to mold with kreis over a season (even if it took most of this season, cerritos has earned a legitimate shot at starting every game).

along with broome's obvious lack-of-pure defensive skills (he's a true midfielder... if he's traded for a top-notch defender in the off-season, the burn would have my full support... the midfield is VERY crowded with talent already), the burn had NO consistent, organized threat all nite.

until the burn can get an effective two-way game on the field (and get a better coach who can apply this VERY basic theory), they'll always be 'second-best' in this league.

[burning247]

Originally posted by gotyourback
the burn were outclassed tonite... not because the quakes played 'overly-well', but because have no consistency on offensive whatsoever... the only time rhine can score is if he has a wide open clear shot on net (he's a very lazy player off the ball), and i think it's a real shame that cerritos wasn't given the time he deserves to mold with kreis over a season (even if it took most of this season, cerritos has earned a legitimate shot at starting every game).

along with broome's obvious lack-of-pure defensive skills (he's a true midfielder... if he's traded for a top-notch defender in the off-season, the burn would have my full support... the midfield is VERY crowded with talent already), the burn had NO consistent, organized threat all nite.

until the burn can get an effective two-way game on the field (and get a better coach who can apply this VERY basic theory), they'll always be 'second-best' in this league.

Out-classed, yes. But thats just the way it's been for us against San Jose this season. They are gonna be one hard team to beat.

You odviously haven't seen many Burn games. Broome has become a great Defender. He is a good hard nosed, doesn't take crap from anyone (like Suarez) type Defender.

As for Jefferies, you gotta be kidding! This guy is up for Coach of the year for what he has done to this team, turned us from our crap of last season. He has brought great players on to the team (Vaca, O'Brien, Morrow, etc.), he knows what to do, it was all the players fault tonight.

Second best in the league don't mean jack, we can still win it all, thats the beauty of playoffs.

[gotyourback]

Originally posted by burning247


Out-classed, yes. But thats just the way it's been for us against San Jose this season. They are gonna be one hard team to beat.

You odviously haven't seen many Burn games. Broome has become a great Defender. He is a good hard nosed, doesn't take crap from anyone (like Suarez) type Defender.

As for Jefferies, you gotta be kidding! This guy is up for Coach of the year for what he has done to this team, turned us from our crap of last season. He has brought great players on to the team (Vaca, O'Brien, Morrow, etc.), he knows what to do, it was all the players fault tonight.

Second best in the league don't mean jack, we can still win it all, thats the beauty of playoffs.

last year i watch paul broome get beaten time-and-time again because he doesn't 'commit' to defense... why? because he's not a natural defender... so the assistant coaches (we have a couple of very good ones) taught him to 'at least' play more conservative by just knocking the ball out-of-touch and over the bi-line instead of getting turned-around and burned.

this year, he has done just that and gotten away with it cause of 'real defenders' like morrow and bonseu... even suarez isn't the 'stay-at-home' defender we need him to develop into (don't forget, morrow may not be 'young' enough to keep playing the great defense he's been playing for long) because morrow won't 'be around forever'.

these are the things that MUST be addressed by management, but it really is NOT jeffries responsibility to 'bring' players to the burn... management does that, and jeffries doesn't play them correctly to compete with a 'quake kind-of' opponent.

as for vaca?.. he has an incredible talent for beautifully touched crosses... but, other than that, he's not fast enough to beat anyone (he showed that tonite by being caught from behind when he clearly should've been alone on goal) and, albeit he's very young, he does not show the savvy we've been hoping for from him this year in regard to a much-needed finishing touch for the burn. since cerritos is not allowed to start and develop for the burn, and rhine can only score when handed a golden opportunity; then we need someone like cerritos (or obrien, given the chance) to step up and be that 'dependable finisher' that we so badly need (half of kreis' goals are scored on penalty kicks).

it takes more than a solid middle defense and a wonderful playmaker midfielder to make up a championship team.

i watch just about every burn game and i'm lucky enough to know 'a bit' about this game. and... i'm not the only one who's questioned jeffries ability to capitalize on his talent.

[enderjed]

It's clear that San Jose is the better team, unfortunately. They're pretty good in the back, lightning fast up top, and the absolute class of the league in the midfield. But their home-and-away record shows clearly that the field does have a bit to do with their success. 11-0-1 at home (first in MLS), 2-7-2 away (NINTH in MLS). Other teams have to learn to adapt to the conditions of that runway of a field. The Quakes play one-touch ball at home. The tight spacing requires crisp ball movement and vertical play, no field-switching or corner-flag runs. It looks almost like they're playing indoors, with super touchpassing.
In contrast, the Burn tend to use every inch of the massive pitch they've been blessed with at the Cotton Bowl. Draw a couple defenders to you and switch it over. Send Vaca to the flag. Spread the players and move the ball around the space. It just doesn't work at Spartan Stadium.
Dallas is 7-2-2 at home (Third in MLS) and 3-4-5 on the road (fourth in MLS).

[ElJefe]

Originally posted by enderjed
It's clear that San Jose is the better team, unfortunately. They're pretty good in the back, lightning fast up top, and the absolute class of the league in the midfield. But their home-and-away record shows clearly that the field does have a bit to do with their success. 11-0-1 at home (first in MLS), 2-7-2 away (NINTH in MLS). Other teams have to learn to adapt to the conditions of that runway of a field. The Quakes play one-touch ball at home. The tight spacing requires crisp ball movement and vertical play, no field-switching or corner-flag runs. It looks almost like they're playing indoors, with super touchpassing.
In contrast, the Burn tend to use every inch of the massive pitch they've been blessed with at the Cotton Bowl. Draw a couple defenders to you and switch it over. Send Vaca to the flag. Spread the players and move the ball around the space. It just doesn't work at Spartan Stadium.
Dallas is 7-2-2 at home (Third in MLS) and 3-4-5 on the road (fourth in MLS).
Glenn Davis said on the broadcast last night that Yallop told him that the poor road record had everything to do with Agoos and Dayak's absence, in the sense that you need veteran leadership to settle the team and take care of business on the road.

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. It's not as if that lineup that was out there last night lacked veterans. Mulrooney has been in the league several years, not to mention Corrales and Ibsen. Granted, they aren't team leaders like Agoos and Dayak, but they're not wet-behind-the-ears youngsters either. They know the deal. They don't need to be settled down.

I'm no soccer expert, but I seem to remember people saying that you get a lot more improvement in technical skills and one-touch passing in small-sided games on small fields when you're actually forced to react quickly. The inference, of course, being that you don't have to be as skilled on a larger field. And if you follow that reasoning, that would explain the Quakes' road woes. Their opponents on the road may not be as skilled, but they don't have to be, because they have a bit more space to work with because of their larger field.

Also, Spartan Stadium's smaller field definitely helps with the defending. It's easier to close down space quickly. Notice how quickly the Quakes were able to get two and three guys on any players that receive the ball? And look at their defense record on the road and at home. They've been ultra-stingy at home, giving up nine goals in 12 matches, but a bit more generous on the road, giving up 15 goals in 11 matches. (Mind you, that defensive record on the road is still pretty good, but not as stifling as their home record.)

But really, do you expect Yallop to actually admit publicly that the difference in home and road records is all about the field? It would almost be like already admitting defeat whenever his team hits the road. However, I think he knows it's a problem, especially since the final will be on the relatively wide field of Gillette Stadium.

[Viking64]

I'm so in disagreement that Cerritos has earned anything more than being a substitute. He's had plenty of game time to prove that he's better at keeping the ball and getting the ball in the net than Rhine...and he hasn't. Rhine is NOT lazy off the ball. And he's WAY better at checking back, turning with the ball, and keeping the attacking flow. On games when Rhine is not there, the Burn STALLS at the attacking 3rd because neither Kreis or Cerritos are good ball control forwards.

I thought he should have pulled Kreis not Rhine when he put in Cerritos. Kreis has not taken a decent shot on frame from outside the box in who knows how long. He needed rest, and now he's going into a critical LA game low on juice.

One lousy loss on a mini-field against the league leader, and you're putting in a guy who has not broken into the starting lineup, and then raking on Vaca who has had almost no competition all year for his starting spot.

I'm ask pissed off as anyone that they lost, but I recognize that one loss does not mean wholesale changes to a lineup that has racked up the LEAST number of losses in the ENTIRE FORKING LEAGUE, EVEN AS OF TODAY.

Not having Suarez hurts bad, and being on a roller rink doesn't help.

[Shaster]

It's true you need good close control to do well in tight space. I watched SJ vs. Moralia (sp?) game, and those Mexican players actually are pretty good on the field.

For SJ's bad record on the road. First other teams are good too, such as Burns and Galaxy, so lost a close game 1:2 to them are normal. SJ also lost one to Colorado due to poor finishing. There are two games SJ lost to KC--one by playing 10 vs. 11, another when the whole team was tired from the beginning. We also lost two to Crews. I didn't watch that two, but somehow we cannot win vs. Crew in regular season.

[Magpie 1974]

I'm not sure the small field arguement actually holds water. If you look at San Jose, they are built for speed. That translates to being better suited for a large field where they can take advantage of the space. Given that Yallop is the reigning Coach of the Year, and in my conversations with him appears to be reasonable and lucid, (Not given to some of the idiacy that spews forth from the likes of Hudson), I'd go with the theory that missing the heart of the defense (Which by the way is what is really needed when playing on the road) has played a huge factor in the road record this year.

[Native Aztexan]

You can also add that coming into the Dallas match they drew 2-2 with D.C. United so basically it was a wake up call to them to perform well. The way San Jose's ball control and passing to their teammates was missing from the Burns attack. Vaca, Chivas and Pareja had a hard time with the Earthquakes midfield and defense and falling early on a unbelieveable goal by Graziani (wish he was still on our team :( ) didn't help either. Do you think Cerritos should start instead of Rhine (I felt Rhine was a no show on the attack)?

[burning247]

I said this on the other thread too, but it's games like these it makes me wonder how we ever score. You know? In a way I really do miss Graziani and his killer instinct.

[Pegasus]

Originally posted by gotyourback


(half of kreis' goals are scored on penalty kicks).

.

That's odd since the PK yesterday by Zarco was the first of the year for the Burn.

[Gandalf21]

Dallas' defense was at my end of the field in the first half, I was not impressed by Morrow at all. He had several givaways and was stripped of the ball on at least 3 occasions. (On one, it was picked right off of his toe by Donovan.) If he is now "old and slow", a small field should help him cover those deficiencies. Maybe he just had a bad game.

The Burn offense was not too impressive either. 2 shots on goal, and one of those was the PK. The other was in about the 89th minute and resulted in Cannon's only save of the night. It was by Vaca and right at Cannon's chest.

The whole Burn team went into the locker room at half time - except Cerritos. He sat all alone on the Burn bench. Very alone. What was up with that?

[sweeper33]

Originally posted by Gandalf21

The whole Burn team went into the locker room at half time - except Cerritos. He sat all alone on the Burn bench. Very alone. What was up with that?

What IS up with that? This fact interests me more than the crappy result of the game. Are you sure Cerritos didn't even go into the locker room during the whole halftime?
This sounds like trouble. Hope it's not another Graziani/Jeffrries conflict.

[Viking64]

Originally posted by Gandalf21

The whole Burn team went into the locker room at half time - except Cerritos. He sat all alone on the Burn bench. Very alone. What was up with that?

Coach probably told him to get warm, so he warmed his can.

Yea, on that field, I'm not surprised the Burn did not impress. The Burn use the width of the field to stretch a defense. Suarez was absent (thanks to that jackarse Andy Williams should have been suspended), so they were missing a part-time attacker that adds a lot to their attack. Chivas, Vaca, and Broome all need wide room to stay away from body contact and get deep. In that narrow stadium, pulling someone wide means what, five steps from the penalty area? In the Cotton Bowl if you are covering the sideline, you are WAY too far from the penalty box to shut down a run going inside of you. Why have no fans taken a tape measure and measured that stupid field so we can actually KNOW what the real dimensions are?

Look the Quakes played their game and won. Hardly a surprise. But they went way overboard on tackles that deserved a card, and should have been playing down at least a man by the 70th minute. They didn't show HALF of that determination vs. DC. So that tells me that they know the Burn can do them damage, and they need to be throwing their bodies around to win. The Burn were not intimidated at all, going with a 3 man backline for about 15 minutes to try to pull back into it. How many teams would have risked that to try to even the score? Not many. Jordan STUFFED Donovan in front of his own crowd. I hope it hurt really badly, cause Jordan did it with style.

so you can take your outclass bullcrap back to where you came from. If Graziani put in half the effort in Dallas that he does in San Jose, the Burn would have won a lot more games last year. That Arsewipe, I'm gonna ride his arse if he ever comes to the Bowl again.

San Jose-the Rochester of MLS

[Gandalf21]

Viking64, Outclassed was not my subject. It was that of whomever started this thread. I forgot to remove it (see above) did not mean to offend.

Jordan made two great saves on Donovan - no doubt about that. As far as tackling, both teams were doing it pretty equally. Pareja got away with several that he could have easily gotten his second yellow for. And O'Brien was the last defender when he took down Donovan late in the game.

I don't think playing down a man would have mattered much the way Dallas played.

BTW, there was no other Burn for Cerritos to warm up with. He SAT on the bench the whole half time, legs stretched out in front of him, arms folded across his chest.

Spartan is about 68 yds wide. 44 for the penalty box and about 12 from edge of box to touch line on each side.

[Jacen McCullough]

Wasn't the last game that the Quakes dominated over Dallas in SJ too? I honestly think both teams are right up there in skill level, but SJ's tiny field goes right in their favor. It's easier for their defense to close down opposing team's creative players (like Vaca, Kreis etc) and it increases the opportunities for scrappy players (Donovan, Graziani). The talented teams will have more trouble playing at Spartan than the scrappy average teams will (see DC/SJ). If I were a Dallas fan, I wouldn't look too far into the meaning of that match. Odds are Dallas and SJ won't play until late in the playoffs if not the final itself, and if the Burn can avoid playoff games in the final and meet up with SJ in NE, then not only do they have a great chance to win it all, but it could possibly be one of the most entertaining finals we've ever had.

JMac

PS: Of course I'm still hoping my Metros win it all, but as long as OZ is at the helm, my hope dwindles daily.

[Beerking]

Originally posted by Viking64


Coach probably told him to get warm, so he warmed his can.

Yea, on that field, I'm not surprised the Burn did not impress. The Burn use the width of the field to stretch a defense. Suarez was absent (thanks to that jackarse Andy Williams should have been suspended), so they were missing a part-time attacker that adds a lot to their attack. Chivas, Vaca, and Broome all need wide room to stay away from body contact and get deep. In that narrow stadium, pulling someone wide means what, five steps from the penalty area? In the Cotton Bowl if you are covering the sideline, you are WAY too far from the penalty box to shut down a run going inside of you. Why have no fans taken a tape measure and measured that stupid field so we can actually KNOW what the real dimensions are?

Look the Quakes played their game and won. Hardly a surprise. But they went way overboard on tackles that deserved a card, and should have been playing down at least a man by the 70th minute. They didn't show HALF of that determination vs. DC. So that tells me that they know the Burn can do them damage, and they need to be throwing their bodies around to win. The Burn were not intimidated at all, going with a 3 man backline for about 15 minutes to try to pull back into it. How many teams would have risked that to try to even the score? Not many. Jordan STUFFED Donovan in front of his own crowd. I hope it hurt really badly, cause Jordan did it with style.

so you can take your outclass bullcrap back to where you came from. If Graziani put in half the effort in Dallas that he does in San Jose, the Burn would have won a lot more games last year. That Arsewipe, I'm gonna ride his arse if he ever comes to the Bowl again.

San Jose-the champions of MLS

Fixed your post:D:

[Viking64]

Originally posted by Beerking


Fixed your post:D:

payback is hell. You are hereby warned that I don't forget people coming in the Burn forum and slagging on the Burn. The Fire, Metro, and Crew fans have all gotten a taste of payback this season. You will be no exception.

[dakotajoe]

Originally posted by Viking64


payback is hell. You are hereby warned that I don't forget people coming in the Burn forum and slagging on the Burn. The Fire, Metro, and Crew fans have all gotten a taste of payback this season. You will be no exception.

Waaahhhh! Jeez, this forum is all about whining, isn't it?

[dakotajoe]

Originally posted by Jacen McCullough
Wasn't the last game that the Quakes dominated over Dallas in SJ too? I honestly think both teams are right up there in skill level, but SJ's tiny field goes right in their favor. It's easier for their defense to close down opposing team's creative players (like Vaca, Kreis etc) and it increases the opportunities for scrappy players (Donovan, Graziani). The talented teams will have more trouble playing at Spartan than the scrappy average teams will (see DC/SJ). If I were a Dallas fan, I wouldn't look too far into the meaning of that match. Odds are Dallas and SJ won't play until late in the playoffs if not the final itself, and if the Burn can avoid playoff games in the final and meet up with SJ in NE, then not only do they have a great chance to win it all, but it could possibly be one of the most entertaining finals we've ever had.

JMac

PS: Of course I'm still hoping my Metros win it all, but as long as OZ is at the helm, my hope dwindles daily.

Well, I guess that NO team in MLS has any talent other than LA who beat SJ in the Open Cup? It's called "adapting". If your game is put off by a smaller pitch, work with it, not against it.