German Debate: Is Bayern A Pitfall for German Youth?

[robledo]

long article so just posted a snippet (link below)

When Marcell Jansen suddenly left Bayern in late August, rumor had it that the ex-Gladbach left-back had had a row with new coach Juergen Klinsmann. According to the rumor, Jansen was told that he had no place in Klinsmann’s squad, a statement that prompted him to lash out against the the Bayern management, calling Bayern a place where young talent needlessly goes to waste. At Klinsmann’s request, manager Uli Hoeness promptly made a deal with Hamburg and Bayern fans awoke on the morning of August 27 with news that their team’s starting left-back had transferred to HSV. It is true that any youngster will have a difficult time breaking into the Bayern starting eleven, but is there legitimacy to Jansen’s statements?

http://www.goal.com/en/news/592/bayern-munich/2009/01/17/1064644/german-debate-is-bayern-a-pitfall-for-german-youth

[Borussia]

Well, it seems that nowadays the big money & winning titles is more important for many young talents than playing regularly ... elsewise I can't explain another move from a huge Gladbach talent to Munich next summer (Alex Baumjohann).

[Projekt4]

Clark Whitney's articles are a saving grace for goal.com. Thanks for posting this here, haven't been to that website for quite a while.

[hackespitze123]

While we don't learn anything new from that article, all apects of it have been discussed here and elsewhere repeatedly over the years, it's a good summary of something that has become a very annoying obstacle in the development of young German talent. And it's good to have this issue in the international media, and not just domestic.

While everything written in it is true, we should not forget one important fact: Nobody is forced to play for Bayern. After the numerous examples of young talent (actually not just German talent) wasting their time there, promising young players simply should know better. Nowadays, it's simply their own fault if they decide to move there at a very young age, believing the false promises and their greedy agents.

One has to feel sorry for Bayern's own youth though. Bayern's youth setup is actually very good, Gerland is doing a very good job there, but for all those promising youngsters, it'll be rather unlikely to make it to the senior squad, or become starters even. For most of them, the sooner they leave, the better.

["Eisenfuß" Eilts]

What has the Jansen case to do with German youth developement?

The coached planned with another player , who is also not so old (Lahm).
So i don´t see any connection between the first part of the article
and its headline.

[footyfan1]

While we don't learn anything new from that article, all apects of it have been discussed here and elsewhere repeatedly over the years, it's a good summary of something that has become a very annoying obstacle in the development of young German talent. And it's good to have this issue in the international media, and not just domestic.

While everything written in it is true, we should not forget one important fact: Nobody is forced to play for Bayern. After the numerous examples of young talent (actually not just German talent) wasting their time there, promising young players simply should know better. Nowadays, it's simply their own fault if they decide to move there at a very young age, believing the false promises and their greedy agents.

One has to feel sorry for Bayern's own youth though. Bayern's youth setup is actually very good, Gerland is doing a very good job there, but for all those promising youngsters, it'll be rather unlikely to make it to the senior squad, or become starters even. For most of them, the sooner they leave, the better.


Once again, you've said it all.

[Rainer24]

I don't think it's really anything unique to Bayern. It is that way with pretty much any club that can financially dominate all other sides in their league. Chelsea has had plenty of guys on their books who either rarely or never see/saw the pitch at Stamford Bridge, but who could have all along been playing regularly and developing at any number of other clubs in the league.

Sometimes these guys just need to be more realistic when they are signing a contract. A team like Bayern can afford to buy someone with the idea that if he does show talent, they will have first dibs, but not necessarily have any intention of playing the guy anytime soon. It certainly can stifle development, so I don't know why they don't just loan some of these guys out instead of selling them outright or letting them rot on the bench.

[96wirdMeister]

Bastian Schweinsteiger made it! So Bayern can not be "German Youth's pitfall" in every case.

[Equilibrium]

I think if Bayern loaned more players more often, we would be one of the most successful clubs at raising youngsters. We aren't terrible like media makes it out to be, hyped up talent has failed in other clubs in Germany bar Bayern. The difference is Bayern will buy more of these hyped up players, and more will fail at Bayern due to this.

[squidward123]

Sometimes these guys just need to be more realistic when they are signing a contract. A team like Bayern can afford to buy someone with the idea that if he does show talent, they will have first dibs, but not necessarily have any intention of playing the guy anytime soon. It certainly can stifle development, so I don't know why they don't just loan some of these guys out instead of selling them outright or letting them rot on the bench.

Exactly!!!!@@!$#

And in the case of Kroos :
It also doesn't help when Hoeness hypes him up initially to a very high level himself.

[footyfan1]

Sometimes these guys just need to be more realistic when they are signing a contract. A team like Bayern can afford to buy someone with the idea that if he does show talent, they will have first dibs, but not necessarily have any intention of playing the guy anytime soon. It certainly can stifle development, so I don't know why they don't just loan some of these guys out instead of selling them outright or letting them rot on the bench.


They sell them out-right because many of them will never see time at Bayern. But they know if they go and develop elsewhere, the door is always open to return to Bayern.

Bayern buys these kids in hopes of finding the next Mattheaus, the next Scholl, the next Babbel, the next Kahn, etc.

I think you said it best when you said sometimes these guys need to be more realistic when signing a contract.

As "hackespitze123" said earlier, no one FORCES these kids to sign for Bayern.

However, I think most of us know there are two underlying problems here.

First, the German media pretty much brainwashes most of the population here to believe Bayern is the be all and end all of your career if you're a German Footballer.

If you make it to Bayern Muenchen, it is because you are one of the best. And who doesn't want to believe they are one of the best???

Second, when Bayern comes calling, most handlers see nothing except the number of zeroes at the end of their bank statements increasing. No one will tell these kids, "Look, of course it is a great honor to be pursued by FC Bayern, but you simply are not ready for this."


Let me put it this way. When I heard at this time two years ago that Jan Schlaudraff had agreed to move to Bayern, I laughed for nearly an hour before telling everyone at the Bayern boards that Bayern had made a huge mistake and this guy would never play.

Of course, they all told me I was nuts. What happened??

Now, in my heart, I think Bayern signed Schlaudraff to keep him away from Bremen or Leverkusen. Bayern does that with young players at at times too.

I didn't think Lukas Podolski was ready for Bayern either, although I never imagined he would fail the way he has.

I thought Bayern would buy Podolski and loan him back to Koln for a year as they finished up with Makaay and Pizarro.

I also believe Bayern never thought they would get Klose and Toni, but I think they figured Podolski would be a man and fight to displace one of those two. But instead, by most accounts, instead of fighting to earn a place, all Podolski has done is whine and sulk about not being handed playing time.

I don't believe Bayern is totally responsible for what is happening with Podolski. In Podolski's case, the only thing I blame Bayern for is not loaning him back to Koln for that first season. The rest I blame all on Podolski for not stepping up and being a man. Instead, he's doing his Lars Ricken Dortmund and Landon Donovan Leverkusen imitation, tucking his tail between his legs and running home to mommy. :mad:

These are just two cases. People like to point at the case of Toni Kroos. I blame his father for that one. Kroos should have either stayed at Rostock or moved on to a club like Berlin, Dortmund or Stuttgart. 1st Bundesliga clubs where he would have actually had a chance to play often.

But again, when Bayern comes calling, it is hard for Germans to say "no."

People can point to cases like Tobias Rau and to a certain extent, Lukas Podolski and Marcell Jansen and say, "They would have been fine had they never gone to Bayern."

But then there are cases like David Jarolim, Piotr Trochowski, Zvjezdan Misimovic and to be more up-to-date, Mats Hummels at Dortmund and Stefano Celozzi at KSC where their time at Bayern has definitely prepared them to be better at the next level.

So, in this case, I think you have to say "Six in one, half a dozen in the other....." :)