BC Place Roof $$$ APPROVED

[Johnnie Monster]

The $365 million renovation project ($200 M for the retractable roof) is now fully funded and approved. This is no longer a question mark whatsoever.

BC Place renovations to cost $365M - 24 Hours
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature01090902.aspx


Gov't approves upgrading BC Place Stadium for $365 million - Vancouver Sun
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/archive/feature01090903.aspx

[Rick O'Shea]

All the cards are in place, it would be madness on behalf of MLS not to grant Vancouver a franchise now.

[Sport Billy]

All the cards are in place, it would be madness on behalf of MLS not to grant Vancouver a franchise now.

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass here, please correct me if I'm wrong, but the availability and the rehab of BC was never really an issue was it?

I always thought the two sticking points MLS had with Vancouver was the revenue of BC and, like Miami, what happens 5 years from now in regards to a SSS.

I mean, I thought it was a given these "upgrades" were going to happen.

Am I wrong?

[piltdownman]

Everyone has pretty much excepted that the renovations were going to happen. Some people might now have, but anyone who followed things in Vancouver knew it was going to go forward.

I think the SSS is on the back burner now because the province is spending so much on the renovations. Even if a deal was worked out with the port now, i doubt we would hear about it because it would give ammo against the massive BC place renovations. The BC government need to whitecaps to justify spending all that money on the new roof. I wouldn't be surprised if the whitecaps are getting a sweetheart deal just to justify the spending.

Its the same as how they used the Olympics to justify a Billion Dollar Plus convention centre, when it really makes no sense.

[antnee7898]

And the revenue?

[piltdownman]

And the revenue?

From the Government or the Caps?

To tell you the truth I don't think the Province cares. Its one of the premier's pet projects.

As for the Whitecaps, instead of counting on the revenue from nacho's they will just raise the ticket prices. The USL whitecaps already have more expansive tickets than half the MLS. Plus everything indicates that the owner isn't motivated my profit.

[Sport Billy]

Plus everything indicates that the owner isn't motivated my profit.

So he's doing this because he's a good guy? Please - everyone is motivated by profits.

[SweetOwnGoal]

All the cards are in place, it would be madness on behalf of MLS not to grant Vancouver a franchise now.

Vancouver is likely my preference (realistically anyway. Ottawa has appeal to me as it would create another pro team in Canada), but it doesn't matter how much you dress it up. You're still playing on FieldTurf in a CFL stadium. And, that's a problem. A big, deal breaking problem.

[poppenjay]

Vancouver is likely my preference (realistically anyway. Ottawa has appeal to me as it would create another pro team in Canada), but it doesn't matter how much you dress it up. You're still playing on FieldTurf in a CFL stadium. And, that's a problem. A big, deal breaking problem.

how so? with the new roof that's going in, bc place will be able to reduce it's capacity (without the use of ugly tarps) to a very intimate 20-something thousand. not only is it close to a sss than qwest, as well as a bunch of other existing stadiums, but the downtown location is clutch.

and i don't get the feeling kerfoot is willing to give up on waterfront stadium anytime soon, either. that thing looks like it'll be something to behold once everything comes together. too many people want it to happen for it to just fizzle out.

as for the fieldturf, i'm with you on that. it's blasphemous. but it's better than nothing (certainly, bc place as a whole, fieldturf included, is far better than swangard, the existing home for the usl whitecaps)

[piltdownman]

So he's doing this because he's a good guy? Please - everyone is motivated by profits.

He saved the USL whitecaps from death. They now have the biggest youth program in North America. They bought land to build a stadium with no public funds. And kerfoot personally has been bankrolling the Canadian Women's national team. I really doubt that making profits is his goal. Personally I've always got the idea that he was passionate about the game, liked owning a team, and has enough money that it makes a good hobby/legacy.

[drSoFlaFan]

Yes but as Billy said, the issue is revenues for the MLS team at the stadium. Seattle and New England only work because the owners of the stadiums also at least partially own the MLS teams in question, so the teams are able to get game day revenues like concessions, luxury suites, in stadium ads etc.

I actually really like the proposed capacity reducing curtain plan at BC, it's pretty clever. However, regardless of capacity, the main issue is whether or not the Whitecaps will be able to generate revenues at BC Place, and how hard they will be hit with rent. Miami has a lease deal in place at FIU that gives the MLS team nearly all game day revenues, a share of stadium naming rights and non-MLS soccer revenues. Does the Vancouver ownership group have a similar deal in place at BC? If not, then renovations or not, it will be unlikely MLS chooses Vancouver over the other cities with either new SSS plans or temp venues with revenue control(Miami).

[Krammerhead]

Yes but as Billy said, the issue is revenues for the MLS team at the stadium. Seattle and New England only work because the owners of the stadiums also at least partially own the MLS teams in question, so the teams are able to get game day revenues like concessions, luxury suites, in stadium ads etc.

I actually really like the proposed capacity reducing curtain plan at BC, it's pretty clever. However, regardless of capacity, the main issue is whether or not the Whitecaps will be able to generate revenues at BC Place, and how hard they will be hit with rent. Miami has a lease deal in place at FIU that gives the MLS team nearly all game day revenues, a share of stadium naming rights and non-MLS soccer revenues. Does the Vancouver ownership group have a similar deal in place at BC? If not, then renovations or not, it will be unlikely MLS chooses Vancouver over the other cities with either new SSS plans or temp venues with revenue control(Miami).

The stadium isn't owned by another sports franchise. The rent is not overly expensive and it's not like the team will be playing second fiddle to the CFL Lions.

[NF-FC]

What do ancillary revenues have to do with getting into MLS? If Kerfoot doesn't mind, why should the league? MLS takes a percentage of ticket revenue to cover player salaries. If the 'Caps can pack in 20,000+ a game MLS would be happy as a pig in shit.

[Sport Billy]

What do ancillary revenues have to do with getting into MLS? If Kerfoot doesn't mind, why should the league? MLS takes a percentage of ticket revenue to cover player salaries. If the 'Caps can pack in 20,000+ a game MLS would be happy as a pig in shit.

Single entity.
If a team isn't getting revenue it should, it means less money for MLS overall.

[NF-FC]

But the league only takes Ticket revenue, Vancouver should have plenty of that

[Johnnie Monster]

Using the argument of beer, nachos and parking against Vancouver's bid is absolutely retarded.

As referenced earlier, Vancouver USL tickets are already priced higher than several MLS markets. Prices will only go up once they go downtown to BC Place.

It's also been referenced in countless threads that lease costs at BC Place are 15% of gate revenues.

Vancouver is one of the priciest regions in North America in pretty much every consumer category you can think of. Whether it's retail, food, alcohol, personal entertainment, rental housing, real estate, transportation costs... the typical cost of living here is astronomical in comparison to many larger US cities.

We pay more here because we're generally well off, and quite frankly, we're numbly accustomed to being brutalized at the cash register for pretty much everything we buy.

Kerfoot will raise his prices. He will make his money, and so will MLS.

We have in excess of 30 years of consistent soccer attendance data which proves Vancouver will match Seattle seat for seat. If they sell 18,000 season tickets, so will we. Vancouver is hardly a speculative market when it comes to soccer. It's a sure thing.

Sorry guys. No amount of popcorn in Atlanta or St. Louis can compete with that. Factor in the safety and security of our banking system here in comparison to the mess on your side of the line... well, Vancouver has to a be a front runner.

[Sport Billy]

Using the argument of beer, nachos and parking against Vancouver's bid is absolutely retarded.



True, but that's not where the money is when you control the revenue in a stadium. The real revenue comes from naming rights, in-stadium advertising, suites, additional events (concerts, other sports), etc. Another important factor that Vancouver will be missing out on is simply the ability to control your own venue on a day-to-day basis.

That's a hell of a lot of money Atlanta and St. Louis would get that Vancouver will not.


EDIT:

No one doubts Vancouver will be a success. But the "What happens in 5 years when the BC deal is over" is very big.

I know I'm biased, but bring in St. Louis in 2011 and then Portland and Vancouver in 2012 is the best decision for the league. It would give them both time to shore up the stadium situations.

Vancouver and Portland with concrete future stadium plans walk right in to the league IMO.

[NF-FC]

True, but that's not where the money is when you control the revenue in a stadium. The real revenue comes from naming rights, in-stadium advertising, suites, additional events (concerts, other sports), etc. Another important factor that Vancouver will be missing out on is simply the ability to control your own venue on a day-to-day basis.

That's a hell of a lot of money Atlanta and St. Louis would get that Vancouver will not.



Well that might suck for Mr. Kerfoot it has nothing to do with whether or not he gets a team. MLS wants gate reciepts, period. Thats where they take the money to pay the players, not soda and peanuts. That money stays with the team owners. If Kerfoot is willing to lose out on those side revenues for a few years in a temp venue then all the power to him, his wallet won't even notice the loses.

Sport Billy, I generally respect your contributions to the boards, but you don't seem to get the concept here. Kerfoot is doing whatever it takes to land a franchise now. He's got enough money to worry about the long term profitability later.

[Sport Billy]

Sport Billy, I generally respect your contributions to the boards, but you don't seem to get the concept here. Kerfoot is doing whatever it takes to land a franchise now. He's got enough money to worry about the long term profitability later.

I understand that, and that's fine for Kerfoot but not MLS. MLS cannot take that approach any longer. MLS needs to quit acting on the promise.

What happens in 5 years when Kerfoot still cannot get a SSS built?

It makes the league look second-rate that our teams have no place to play.

[piltdownman]

I understand that, and that's fine for Kerfoot but not MLS. MLS cannot take that approach any longer. MLS needs to quit acting on the promise.

What happens in 5 years when Kerfoot still cannot get a SSS built?

It makes the league look second-rate that our teams have no place to play.


"no place to play"? what are you talking about? If they don't have a SSS by then they will just keep playing at BC place. A Five year Lease only means that the team is only committed for five years, and isn't stuck in a situation like the Phoenix Coyotes which signed a terrible 20 year lease.