Pete Rose

[Motterman]

Pete Rose finally admits he bet on Baseball.

He says he never bet against his own team and never made a wager from the dugout.

Is it enough for Bud to lift the ban?

Maybe.

Although the fact that he bet on games in which his team is playing is quite worriesome. The bookies could note that Pete is not betting on his team to win on Thursday and they place their bets accordingly, etc.

Plus, being involved in gambling like that puts you in a bad position and open to being strongarmed/threatened and made to do things that are unethical as well.

I think the lifetime ban should probably stand, but then I think of all the bastards that are in the Hall of Fame, plus the characters in other sports halls and stuff, and for what he did on the field as a Player is simply astonishing... Maybe he should be made eligible for entering the Hall of Fame, but shouldn't be able to hold a baseball related position ever again, IMHO.

[skipshady]

What troubles me is that this admission smacks of cynicism. It's not like he had some sort of moral awakening over the past year after years of defiant and remorseless denials.
He realized that his reinstatement depended on an admission and time was running out - 2005 is his last year of eligibility for the HoF and after that, it's up to the Veterans Committee, some of whose members are adamantly against Rose. And oh yeah, he has a book to pimp.

Also troubling is that his legend grows every year that passes without his plaque in Cooperstown. His hit total is impressive, sure, but let's not forget that the great majority of his hits were singles and he had the benefit of being able to writing himself into the lineup during the latter years of his career.
And it's because of his popularity that baseball is ready to reinstate him. They are ready to set a dangerous precedent because he happens to be a cause celebre and bringing Rose back in would do wonders for MLB's PR.

Anyhoo, I've already voiced my opinions on his reinstatement here (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61169) and elsewhere.

[Labdarugo]

Great posts guys.

Yes, Pete Rose should be admitted to the Hall of Fame.

But not while he is still alive.

[Malaga CF fan]

I'm not a huge fan of baseball, but the Pete Rose story has always intrigued me.

This latest episode smacks of a self-serving admission, a publicity stunt to create a buzz for his new book. Par for the course for Rose, who only admits his gambling guilt when he knows he will profit (this is no gamble, it's a sure thing) from the book sales.

People would have been willing to forgive him if he had owned up to gambling a long time ago. Actually, he probably would have sat out 5 years, then have gotten readmitted, placed in the HOF, etc... years ago, maybe even still managing somewhere. But he waits until a major book deal and publicity campaign to put it out there. We'll see if the writers in charge of HOF enshrinement are able to see through Rose's contrition act.

[ProfZodiac]

I want to see him get through. Yeah, he gambled, probably on his own team, but that doesn't discredit the numbers he put up as a player. Pete Rose was an amazing hitter. He belongs in the Hall of Fame with the likes of Ted Williams and Harmon Killebrew.

I think he's only admitting it now because he had a book deal to promote, and because this will be his last shot at the HoF. Cynical, yes, but would you rather one of the greatest hitters in the game not be recognized for what he did on the field?

[andrewt14]

Rose compromised the integrity of the game by betting on baseball. He does not belong in the Hall of Fame.

[skipshady]

Opinions:

Jim Caple isn't sure how supportive the public will be: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=1701023
Jayson Stark doesn't think Rose's confession goes far enough: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=1700941
Dan Rovell considers the financial impact of Rose's admission: http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2004/0105/1701048.html
ESPN.com readers: http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?page=RoseLetters-040105


EDIT:
Now, the timing of the release of the book is curious. The Hall of Fame inductees will be announced on Tuesday, two days before the book hits the shelves. This clearly isn't a coincidence.
Did he expect to be reinstated already by this point? Or is he preparing for his near-future reinstatement by emphasizing his absence from the ballot?
Either way, the media blitz threatens to upstage the HoF's Class of 2004. Not exactly what I would call classy.

[Bill-DC]

First, Pete Rose was a great player and growing up, I admired the way he played the game.

I'm for second chances, but for years Pete Rose lied and was smug about it. From what I have read he still actively gambles today. Ten years ago if he admitted to betting on baseball, sought treatment for gambling addiction and stayed clean from gambling, then I would have a different opinion. He does not deserve to be reinstated.

Now that Rose has a book to sell, he conveniently comes clean. I will not buy or read his book.

He disgraced baseball and if Selig reinstates him, then I want to see Shoeless Joe Jackson and others who have been banned decades ago cleared as well.

[Malaga CF fan]

Originally posted by Bill-DC
He disgraced baseball and if Selig reinstates him, then I want to see Shoeless Joe Jackson and others who have been banned decades ago cleared as well.

Well said Bill.

Also, I thought Caple's article at espn.com pretty much summed it up best. As a player, he belongs in the Hall, otherwise, he has lost any opportunity to be involved with the game of baseball at any level beyond his grandson's little league team.

[Achtung]

Rose has at least admitted guilt, which at this point, will be the first step of many that he needs to take if he wants to enter the HoF. He really needs to apologize to the fans, and demonstrate remorse. I mean, this guy lied steadfastly for the last 14 years, and now he comes clean (saying mostly what everyone knew anyways), which is almost worse than what he was doing. He tried to dupe us all for so long, and while its good that he has fessed up to his actions, I can't just erase all those interviews he gave, constantly denying any wrongdoing. Like I said, its a step in the right direction, but I hope he takes many more to truly right what he's done wrong.

[Bill-DC]

I would like to see him apologize to the late Bart Giamatti's family.

[Levante]

http://hoosiergazette.com/Sports/sports011.htm

[skipshady]

George (not to be confused with his evil brother Peter) Vecsey of the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/06/sports/baseball/06VECS.html (requires registration, but the content on the site is well worth the trouble)

some key points:
"Never mind that gambling on games is blatantly illegal under baseball rules. Rose now wants the public to pay for the book in which he makes these admissions. What a guy."

"... Rose knows he has two years left in the care of the softies from the baseball writers, many of whom covered Rose's incessant drive for hits. Rose prefers to take his chances with the writers rather than risk the judgment of hard-liners on the Veterans Committee."

"... it is my belief that Rose never went against his team when he was a self-centered and winning player. He had 4,256 hits and played in 6 World Series in a career that deserves to be honored in the Baseball Hall of Fame.

He has been juiced up by the cheers from fans, who would probably cheer scalawag mayors and con-man corporate executives and even Jesse James making his getaway from a mail train �\ at least until they wised up that it was their own money being purloined. Let's face it, most of us are suckers for rogues, including yours truly."

"There is still no sign that Rose sees his conduct as destructive to himself, his family, his teammates, his employers, the public. He is clueless. Charming in his own way �\ great copy for the news media �\ but clueless. And he still faces even worse ruination ahead of him, unless he gets help.

But does his defiant mug belong on the wall in Cooperstown in recognition of those 3,562 games, those headfirst slides, the games he won, the people he entertained? Yes. Selig and his associates should rule that Rose can never be trusted to manage or coach or run a team, but they should give him his plaque."

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by skipshady
Rose prefers to take his chances with the writers rather than risk the judgment of hard-liners on the Veterans Committee." [/i]

No kidding. He doesn't have a chance in hell with the vets. At least while he's alive. Every time I've seen an ex-teammate of his interviewed (Mike Schmidt, Johnny Bench, Joe Morgan), they've all been against his re-instatement. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if some have changed their tune a bit, since it's been a few years since I've seen anyone address the issue, but it's always amazed me that other players, ESPECIALLY teammates, have been vocal in their opposition.

[hangthadj]

Pete Rose was a huge reason the 1980 Phils won the World Series. That was the only world series the Phils ever won. I should want this guy in the hall for that alone. But everytime he opens his mouth I dislike him more. He hasn't even apologized. He admits that he did it. He says he regrets that he lied, but he's still to proud to apologize. I don't get this guy at all. He literally makes me sick.

[DoctorJones24]

The guy was on the phone with Sparky Anderseon from the dugout, asking how long Sparky was going to go wth his starter that afternoon, then making bets on the Tigers game on the other line. And he's still lying about this now.

I also hate this "Don't we believe in forgiveness in America" crap? 2nd chances and all that. This has nothing to do with that for 2 reasons.

First, his admission, as others have noted, was completely insincere. You forgive someone and give them a 2nd chance when they understand their misdeed. Not when they are continuing the same behavior daily. That's not forgiveness, it's called enabling.

Second, and more importantly, the Hall of Fame is not about forgiveness or 2nd chances in any case. So that's a total red herring. If he comes clean, sure, we can hold a big public forgiveness party, with testimonials and so on. But the Hall of Fame is a "reward," and a very special and rare one at that. It's an extra honor that is only bestowed on a very few players, managers, and other bb personnel. It's not a "right" for anyone.


Finally, I have a question for those who think he should be reinstated:

What would it take for you to change your mind? I mean, what revelation would have to come to light for you to say, "forget it."

[BenReilly]

Originally posted by DoctorJones24


Finally, I have a question for those who think he should be reinstated:

What would it take for you to change your mind? I mean, what revelation would have to come to light for you to say, "forget it."

If he bet against the Reds, I'd definitely be against reinstatment. Right now, I'm a bit undecided. This latest stunt, the admission/book promotion, definitely hasn't helped his case.

[skipshady]

Originally posted by BenReilly
If he bet against the Reds, I'd definitely be against reinstatment. Right now, I'm a bit undecided.Not explicitly directed at you, but I don't understand why people continue to make a distinction between betting for and against your team. Once you start betting on your own results, the effect of the wagers carry over to games you have no money on.

Link: Peter Gammons has changed his mind (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1701992)

[Motterman]

Originally posted by skipshady
Not explicitly directed at you, but I don't understand why people continue to make a distinction between betting for and against your team. Once you start betting on your own results, the effect of the wagers carry over to games you have no money on.

Link: Peter Gammons has changed his mind (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=1701992)

I get where Gammons is coming from and I tend to agree. (except about Faye Vincent, who's a bitter old fool)

Rose apparently released a further apology yesterday, I haven't seen it posted here yet:

"I am terribly sorry for my actions and for my bad judgment in ever wagering on baseball, and I deeply regret waiting so many years to come clean," Rose said in his statement. "I would like to apologize to the fans for abusing their trust, but I thank them all for their continuing faith in me."

[Motterman]

Also in the book, Rose writes he has had Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and Oppositional Defiant Behavior, which he says he got from his mother, and the book contains several quotes from a doctor about the effects. He repeats that he still loves to gamble legally at racetracks, and describes himself as "grumpy, short-tempered and cold-hearted."

He also talks about the emotional moment when he faced his family before going to prison and "humiliating body searches" in prison. He recounts anecdotes of his career such as taking an umpire to dinner after he was ejected from a game and makes a few puerile jokes.

He also compares his compulsive gambling to the behavior of former President Clinton, actors Robert Downey Jr. and Winona Ryder, and blames former Reds manager Jack McKeon and general manager Jim Bowden for not giving Pete Rose Jr. enough of a chance when he played for Cincinnati in 1997