New stadium in works for South Florida

[jri]

Florida Atlantic University, based in Boca Raton (25 minutes north of Ft. Lauderdale) has plans on board for 40k (primarily football) domed stadium within 3-5 years. It will coincide with growth (fast growth) of university and move of football team from I-AA to I-A status. Howard Schnellenberger (ex- Miami Hurricanes, Oklahoma) is coach, has done great job and says things are "right on track".

I mention it because that will bring one more stadium (potentially) into South Florida soccer mix. Of course, MLS/A-League still haven't figured out how to make Ft. Lauderdale/Lockhart work, but if FAU pull off the building 40k in area, there will be some interest/need for school to look for alternative revenues to pay operating expenses on facility. Could be another interesting option for pro soccer in SoFlo...

Of course, I will always believe that a 25-30k downtown soccer specific stadium in Miami (w/Latin sports hall of fame inclusive) could financially work...if only someone would pursue (there is land available for cheap/next-2-nothing)....and the plethora of soccer scheduling options is mind-boggling (Latin/Carribean even European national teams, "offseason" Euro teams, Haitian national team (!), clubs teams for Latin America/Caribbean, US National games, and/or MLS/A-League + amateur/youth tourneys.....could easily have year-round soccer)...

[doolittledog2]

I don't know if a domed stadium is too well liked by most soccer fans. Plus, I think that might be some wishfull thinking on Florida Atlantics part. I saw their playoff game against Colgate on TV and they only had 12,000 - 15,000 there.

Maybe with the right ownership and the right location things could work in Miami but it seems like only the Dolphins draw well there on a consistant basis, the Hurricanes and Marlins only draw well when they are winning, which in the Hurricanes case is most of the time.

Good luck but I hope it won't happen in a domed stadium and I hope it would be with the right owners - as in I hope they don't put in a Real Madrid retirement team there.

[Beech]

Schnellenberger's drinks so much that his nose could lead santa's reindeer - his liver won't make it to the opening.

[jri]

dood, you don't understand how college football works...if Univ. of Miami plays Colgate, they would draw 15,000 too....once FAU moves to DI and start scheduling DI schools, there will be a natural bump in attendence.....when they start scheduling UCF or Florida or Florida State etc...look out (attendence wise)...not at all unrealistic for them to average 25-30k a year 4/5 years from now....

Also, a new stadium of that sort will have massive season tix drive preceeding it....you are talking a base of well over 10k season tix holders before first kick-off..

It is on a certain timetable......it is still a few years away...but don't be so dismissive in football-huge Florida/South Florida....

[doolittledog2]

I don't mean to sound dismissive, I hope things work out and they get the stadium built. But it's not how college football works it's how the LOCAL MARKET works. The local market there seems to follow a winning team. Now that the Panthers and Heat aren't good teams their attendance has suffered. The Hurricanes won the national title in 2001 and they averaged 47,000 that year. The Hurricanes have won 5 national titles since 1983 plus have a long history and have built up a following. To say that when Florida Atlantic jumps to Division 1 they will automatically jump in attendance from 12,000 to 30,000 does seem like a stretch especially when the Hurricanes averaged 39,263 in 1999.

Now if they do get the stadium built I'm sure they will want to find as many dates for it as they can and I am sure they would try to woo a soccer team. They just might find someone wanting to invest in either an A-league team or an MLS team. But then is that the best place for a soccer team, or like you said earlier would the best place for a team be closer to downtown miami??? An open air, natural grass stadium close to down town would make the most sense but is there anyone willing to put one there???

[kckicker23]

Originally posted by jri
Florida Atlantic University, based in Boca Raton (25 minutes north of Ft. Lauderdale) has plans on board for 40k (primarily football) domed stadium within 3-5 years. It will coincide with growth (fast growth) of university and move of football team from I-AA to I-A status. Howard Schnellenberger (ex- Miami Hurricanes, Oklahoma) is coach, has done great job and says things are "right on track".

I mention it because that will bring one more stadium (potentially) into South Florida soccer mix. Of course, MLS/A-League still haven't figured out how to make Ft. Lauderdale/Lockhart work, but if FAU pull off the building 40k in area, there will be some interest/need for school to look for alternative revenues to pay operating expenses on facility. Could be another interesting option for pro soccer in SoFlo...

Of course, I will always believe that a 25-30k downtown soccer specific stadium in Miami (w/Latin sports hall of fame inclusive) could financially work...if only someone would pursue (there is land available for cheap/next-2-nothing)....and the plethora of soccer scheduling options is mind-boggling (Latin/Carribean even European national teams, "offseason" Euro teams, Haitian national team (!), clubs teams for Latin America/Caribbean, US National games, and/or MLS/A-League + amateur/youth tourneys.....could easily have year-round soccer)...

If you build it.......The South Florida fans still won't come.

[gswitatrophy]

its the weather and the other crap u can do in places like la and miami. that is crap if one of the best programs usually in college f ball can barely pull in 45k a game. usc usually pulls in 36k or so but this season it was up to around 60k still left 30k empty seats in the coliseum even in a race for the national championship. the fans in these cities are hardcore......hardcore fairweather fans that is. i can 100% gaurantee that if the galaxy were to pull in david beckham for some insane reason in the close future the hdc would be sold out every single home game no matter what the ticket prices were. u would never see so many armani exchange sweaters, von dutch trucker hats and j lo wrap around sunglasses in one place in ur life. these cities are trendy passionless cities for sports besides the few real fans in those cities. la is for sure more sports friendly than south florida but it still sucks to be a fan here sometimes no matter who ur team is.

[jri]

There is a real misunderstanding on BS of the Miami soccer market...it goes unreported, but each year there are 10-15, sometime closer to 20 exhibition matches that draw quite well in Orange Bowl (usually more than 15k....sometime in excess of 30k) for int'l clubs...

There is a local amateur soccer tournement whose final weekend draws in excess of 10k for several games..played each year.....

Miami draws GREAT TV RATINGS for world cup, all international soccer

Of course, these games (Orange Bowl) don't show up on the soccer radar, here or in sports pages, because it is usually Colombia-Guatemala or Jamaica vs. Haiti....fans of those teams are passionate, show up, and spend money...there are many, many teams (I'd say north of 10) that if you played them 3-4 time a year in Miami, you are guaranteed an average attendence of 20k (and that is at above or at MLS ticket prices). That could be 30-40 dates of 20k or over for a new SSS (again, this is assuming aggressive, solid promotion)

Any serious discussion of a SSS in Miami takes for given that the new stadium will be a strong player/ really THE STRONG PLAYER for all these games...they are necessary to make it work.....with addition of MLS/A-League too, of course. You could be talking 50-60 dates for soccer alone.

A model along the idea of Anschutz (soccer stadium, small concert venue) has a real strong business argument in Miami (many open air concerts draw huge crowds for Latin artists). I think one has a shot of 75-100 dates then.

Its my own idea about the Latin sports hall of fame...I think if properly promoted, that could do outstanding, since nothing like that exists (to my knowledge)....Miami should ALWAYS play on its Latin advantage in everything (business, etc.) its basically easy money...Miami is the gateway to Latin America, bar every other US city (and most Latin cities too). It really has no competition there (unless IT drops the ball)...

I don't have a problem with a satellite Real Madrid team like others here...its what Miami is all about, not your typical American city.....it can be different (more international)..let Columbus be all-American...

Regarding FAU: The novelty of the new stadium will probably draw nice the first couple years...again, IF FAU can schedule a couple Florida faves on their schedule, they could sell-out...so that means the rest of their games could be 15-20k, and they'll average mid-20s.....FAU is not going to build a dome and schedule Colgate and Belhume-Cookman, you can bet on that...

[Dr. Wankler]

Originally posted by doolittledog2
I don't know if a domed stadium is too well liked by most soccer fans. Plus, I think that might be some wishfull thinking on Florida Atlantics part. I saw their playoff game against Colgate on TV and they only had 12,000 - 15,000 there.

Keep in mind they only had a week to market the game. And if they'd played Western Illinois or Montana, there would've been a good 850-900 bump in attendance.

[texgator]

Okay, a few things about the Miami sports market. The sports fans (if you want to call them fans) who aren't going to Marlins/Heat/Panthers games are not the same that would go to a professional soccer club's games. The front-running, fair weather, bandwagon jumpers are the (mostly) white suburban Broward County bunch. The vast majority of whom are from other parts of the country and are more passionately connected to their (original) home teams. For example, the Dolphins tend to have fairly good attendance, despite the inability to sell out 1st round playoff games on short notice. So people believe that they are a well supported team. But what happens when the Jets come to town?? That stadium is all Jet green, no orange anywhere. What about when the Marlins host the Yankees?? Pinstripes abound.

I have serious concerns about trying to start at pro-soccer team in SoFla with the intent on attracting the SA, CA, Carribbean fans. Look into the Dallas Burn and their inability to draw significant levels of Mexican fans. Despite the love of beisbol in Cuba, the Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico, the Marlins do not draw those fans in great numbers. But, when the Cuban Nat'l team came over and played an exhibition against Cuban MLB players they packed the house. It was a tremendous success. And despite a strong Latin flare to the Marlins, they don't come for the regular games. It seems as if they have much more passion and loyalty to their home teams and home nations. If you are gonna do pro soccer in SoFla, I don't think you can count on the immediate acceptance of the Latin or Carribbean crowd.

[texgator]

As far as the FAU debate: how is FIU drawing? They play in JRS (I refuse to call it after a bankrupt company rather then for the man who built the place) right? That mother seats well over 60,000, do they even get 20,000 for a game?? I know, I know, its Div 1AA.......that's a great excuse. You just can't build a popular football program out of thin air. It takes years and years of alumni build up to create a program like that. Both FIU and FAU are basically commuter schools, at least they have been up till now. Where is the passionate fan base going to come from. If I graduated from FAU 5 years ago, am I really going to be pumped up about the new football team? Unless I live in town still, am I really going to drive or fly to see games? UCF and USF are about 10-15 years ahead of FAU or FIU in the big time college atheletics scene. Both have whole cities to themselves to draw a fanbase from (not competing with UM). In 2001, UCF averaged less then 20,000 in a stadium that holds over 70,000. USF averaged 25,000 in a similarly huge stadium. Both teams have been Div 1 for a few years now and are members of mid-major conferences. They've been playing ball a lot longer (well UCF has) then either FIU or FAU.

[texgator]

BTW, throughout the 2002 season FAU averaged just under 10,000 a game. FIU averaged less then 8,000 a game. I don't think going to Div 1 (and being the doorstep of the division) will allow you to jump 200% in attendance. Besides, I think teams must average over 15,000 a game for two seasons before being allowed to go to Div 1. So, they've got some work to do.

[denver_mugwamp]

I turned on the Orange Bowl last night and found out it wasn't being played at the Orange Bowl but at the new stadium up North. So besides U Miami games and the occasional international soccer match, how much does it get used? Like the Cotton Bowl, the Orange Bowl is probably vastly underutilized. So maybe there's a possibility of tearing down the Orange Bowl and putting one or two smaller stadiums in their place? U Miami might be able to move to the HDC. Unfortunately, like most things in BS about MLS expansion, there's lots of great ideas but few people willing to take the wallet out of their pants to make it happen. But I've always thought that Miami will have an MLS team before too long. Tampa, however, will be waiting for many years.

[texgator]

Originally posted by denver_mugwamp
I turned on the Orange Bowl last night and found out it wasn't being played at the Orange Bowl but at the new stadium up North. So besides U Miami games and the occasional international soccer match, how much does it get used? Like the Cotton Bowl, the Orange Bowl is probably vastly underutilized. So maybe there's a possibility of tearing down the Orange Bowl and putting one or two smaller stadiums in their place? U Miami might be able to move to the HDC. Unfortunately, like most things in BS about MLS expansion, there's lots of great ideas but few people willing to take the wallet out of their pants to make it happen. But I've always thought that Miami will have an MLS team before too long. Tampa, however, will be waiting for many years.

It doesn't get used all that much other then what you've listed. It's a crappy stadium, with horrible viewing for the first 5 rows, in a "interesting" part of town with very little parking. There actually has been talk of tearing it down to build a new stadium that will be jointly used by the Marlins and 'Canes. If this doesn't come to pass there are plans to redo the interior of the stadium in a year or so. If it was to be rebuilt, it wouldn't neccesarily be smaller, but just nicer and with the appropiate # of luxury suites and modern day ammenities. Why the bankrupt city of Miami would want to pour money into a stadium in the ghetto is really beyond me. If it was part of a bigger revitalization project that would be one thing, but it isn't.

[JJ Mindset]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/7624657.htm


I don't know how this would affect things for soccer but it might put new focus on what to do with Lockhart.

[WarrenAbao]

Originally posted by jri
Of course, I will always believe that a 25-30k downtown soccer specific stadium in Miami (w/Latin sports hall of fame inclusive) could financially work...if only someone would pursue (there is land available for cheap/next-2-nothing)....

Where in the Miami area is this "cheap/next-2-nothing" land?

And, from that Miami Herald article posted by JJ Mindset:

The remainder of the $200 million would come largely from sales of executive suites and ''private seat licenses,'' the sale of individual stadium seats to fans in long-term contracts.

PSLs for Marlins games?? That's laughable. That can only sell if the Marlins make the playoffs every year 'til the new stadium is built. IIRC, the Marlins were near the bottom when it came to season-ticket sales at Joe Robbie Stadium last season...

[jri]

(land) there are more than a few sites downtown, bordering bad areas (but heck, most of Miami borders bad areas) in which city council will work with a new sports team (cheap land, huge tax breaks)..

I am not talking waterfront here..

[WVKeeper]

Originally posted by texgator
BTW, throughout the 2002 season FAU averaged just under 10,000 a game. FIU averaged less then 8,000 a game. I don't think going to Div 1 (and being the doorstep of the division) will allow you to jump 200% in attendance. Besides, I think teams must average over 15,000 a game for two seasons before being allowed to go to Div 1. So, they've got some work to do.

The NCAA is doing something about that, I do not recall what year (maybe 2005) it starts but they are going to start to kick out the Kent State's and Idaho's of D1-A football if they do not average 20,000 per home game and do not play at least 5 D1-A teams at home (basically eliminating D1-AA's from the schedule)... This rule will definitely hasten FAU and FIU and FAMU from joining the ranks of D1-A football and whatever other Florida school wants to join ...

[texgator]

Originally posted by WVKeeper
The NCAA is doing something about that, I do not recall what year (maybe 2005) it starts but they are going to start to kick out the Kent State's and Idaho's of D1-A football if they do not average 20,000 per home game and do not play at least 5 D1-A teams at home (basically eliminating D1-AA's from the schedule)... This rule will definitely hasten FAU and FIU and FAMU from joining the ranks of D1-A football and whatever other Florida school wants to join ...

I don't know if this will hasten anything. As it stands today, these teams would have to double or triple their current home attendance to even be considered for Div1A admission. If I know SoFla like I think I do, people won't go to these games unless they think it's high level football and that includes alums. So, what would they have to do to increase attendance. I guess playing one of the big 3 in the state would help. I can't see any of them playing FIU or FAU away. I know UF won't, I went there and I know how they schedule out of conference games, and it doesn't include playing away games at DIV 1AA schools. I don't think FSU has done it in over a decade. And with UM joining the ACC, and thereby losing one out of conference game every season, I don't see them wasting it on FIU or FAU, certainly not on their field. Basically, I can't see either team doubling or tripling their attendance by playing the likes of Wofford and Valdosta State.

[WVKeeper]

Originally posted by texgator
I don't know if this will hasten anything. As it stands today, these teams would have to double or triple their current home attendance to even be considered for Div1A admission. If I know SoFla like I think I do, people won't go to these games unless they think it's high level football and that includes alums. So, what would they have to do to increase attendance. I guess playing one of the big 3 in the state would help. I can't see any of them playing FIU or FAU away. I know UF won't, I went there and I know how they schedule out of conference games, and it doesn't include playing away games at DIV 1AA schools. I don't think FSU has done it in over a decade. And with UM joining the ACC, and thereby losing one out of conference game every season, I don't see them wasting it on FIU or FAU, certainly not on their field. Basically, I can't see either team doubling or tripling their attendance by playing the likes of Wofford and Valdosta State.

Hasten means to slow or prevent something from happenning...