Cycle Shorts....

[Case]

Hey guys. sorry to start a new thread on this but I searched the forum and couldn't find mention. I was wondering what the most updated law is regarding cycle shorts? Michael Duberry has just been asked to remove his white shorts from under Readings' all orange strip, and this is a rare occurance nowadays. I recall playing when the craze of multi-colored udner shorts came in early 90s, and do understand the need for the rule, but it's seemingly been enforced inconsistently in the pros. I read an FA referee manual a few years ago and was interested to notice that leggings were explicitly prohibited as (something to effect of) "under shorts must not extend below the knee", however big name players such as Ronaldo, Giggs and before the John Barnes all famously wore black "tights" under shorts that were not themselves black. Also with the craze for short sleeve jerseys over longsleeve lycra tops, as seen by half the Man U team, must these match? I'm sure I have seen contrasting under-sleeves in my time.


Thanks in anticipation,

Case

[boylanj64]

There is nothing in the laws prohibiting the wearing of tights, which is what it sounds like you are describing. The only requirement is "if undershorts are worn, they must be of the same main colour as the shorts " It used to say "if thermal undershorts are worn...," but that is a relatively trifling change and doesn't really apply to your question. The law on shirts is "if undergarments are worn, the colour of the sleeve must be the same main colour as the sleeve of the jersey or shirt."

USSF's ATR apends "All undergarments (slide pants, undershirts, etc.) which extend visibly beyond the required uniform must be as close as possible in color to the main color of the uniform part under which they are worn." In a 2005 JA Q&A, he ddressed the situation I believe you observe, ruling it fell under "SAFETY OF THE PLAYERS"


Your question:
I have noticed in Europe on cold weather days that professional players have been wearing sliding pants or leggings that cover the whole leg and go under the socks. I was under the impression that sliding pants had to be similar or same in color as the shorts and could not extend beyond the top of the knee. Has this changed? USSF answer (March 17, 2005):
The garb you describe is for the safety of the players. The “panty hose”–probably Lycra tights–under the shorts and socks are allowed because of the extreme weather.

Those are the formal rulings (note ATR only applies in US), and at the professional level I could see a distinction being drawn between compression shorts and tights. Compression shorts come in a rainbow of colors, and Michael Duberry cannot reasonably claim he could only find white, or that the choice to follow the law will harm him.

However, if a team comes out in red shorts and black tights on a freezing day, I could reasonably accept that red thermal tights were hard to find. If this did not contrast with the other team, I would decide it was trifling, let the team play, and include full details in my match report.

[Case]

Ahh thanks, but I know I read about the "...extending below the knee" once upon a time, please anyone that can shed anylight on this, even if it was a rule removed after a season or whatever, it'd stop me questioning my sanity!!!

[CalCard]

High school takes a slightly different tact in that the undergarments do not need to match the uniform, but they do need to be a single consistent color. So if the Blue team is wearing a mix of white and black Under Armour, then they need to pick one. It does not have to be Blue.

[boylanj64]

High school takes a slightly different tact in that the undergarments do not need to match the uniform, but they do need to be a single consistent color. So if the Blue team is wearing a mix of white and black Under Armour, then they need to pick one. It does not have to be Blue.

Yep, that is right. The reason i've always heard is cost of buying matching UnderArmour, but I doubt UEFA would accept that excuse from Ronaldo.

[david58]

High school takes a slightly different tact in that the undergarments do not need to match the uniform, but they do need to be a single consistent color. So if the Blue team is wearing a mix of white and black Under Armour, then they need to pick one. It does not have to be Blue.

And, hopefully, the ref would let the game go on even if they were mix and match. If players' underwear causes confusion for refs, oh, whatta world...

When I reffed, if there was mix and match, I simply reminded the coach of the rule (and for a while, they DID have to match the shorts). As a coach, I just tell the boys to purchase black compression shorts (easiest to find) and white longsleeve tops (also, easy to find and at least matches the white jersey.

[Alberto]

This is one area where the ATR is too myopic. Who really cares if the undershorts do not match the color of the shorts. Today's athletes wear significantly longer shorts than the athletes of two decades ago. I would think that to be that concerned for something that you barely see if excessive. As to the use of thermal hose in extremely cold conditions. It would be better for them to be a neutral or shear color like women's pantyhose. It approximates the color of skin and is entirely appropriate in cold weather conditions. I have seen referee crews in Europe wear them too.

[OldAndNew]

This is one area where the ATR is too myopic. Who really cares if the undershorts do not match the color of the shorts. Today's athletes wear significantly longer shorts than the athletes of two decades ago. I would think that to be that concerned for something that you barely see if excessive. As to the use of thermal hose in extremely cold conditions. It would be better for them to be a neutral or shear color like women's pantyhose. It approximates the color of skin and is entirely appropriate in cold weather conditions. I have seen referee crews in Europe wear them too.

Observations:

ATR is not (singularly) myopic - it's clearly seeing what FIFA says on page 18 in LOTG. If it said something different we'd have the ATR bashers citing that as a reason to ignore ATR. ;)

RE NFHS Ruling on undergarments. The 'rule makers' evidently feel that a mixture of white undergarments and red undergarments on members of Team A (whose shirts are gold and shorts are blue) may confuse the officials, (much like bumble-bee socks may!) but that for BOTH teams to have members wearing the same (chose your favorite single color) colored undergarments as their opponents is not confusing. Rule 4.1.1.e is possibly ambiguous anyway; one could infer that the type (length and color) of undergarment worn by members of Team A MUST be matched by each member of Team B that chooses to wear such visible undergarments. I wonder if this is a case of myopia or simply being crossed-eyed. :D

I too had pondered that the banning of the 'onesie' uniform (alluded to by GaryV) was a bullet in the foot by FIFA regarding the shirt removal caution issue. I can only imagine they felt that 'onesies' could be an impediment in certain injury treatment situations? Or, may cause too much delay (not to mention unseemly sights!) in 'blood on the uniform' situations?

[Gary V]

I too had pondered that the banning of the 'onesie' uniform (alluded to by GaryV) was a bullet in the foot by FIFA regarding the shirt removal caution issue. I can only imagine they felt that 'onesies' could be an impediment in certain injury treatment situations? Or, may cause too much delay (not to mention unseemly sights!) in 'blood on the uniform' situations?Or made only by a manufacturer who does not have a FIFA contract? Naah, couldn't be.

[OldAndNew]

Oh - you cynic! You've been watching too much of the OSI / USSF 'love-fest' !! (huge grin)

[Rufusabc]

Learn something new everyday here at the ref forum on Big Soccer. I learned that Michael Durberry is still playing football. And what the hell is Reading doing wearing an all Orange Kit? Is it as bad as the silver and red that Liverpool trotted out yesterday against the Gunners? Or as bad as the Day glo yellow that Chelsea sometimes sports?

[rippingood]

Learn something new everyday here at the ref forum on Big Soccer. I learned that Michael Durberry is still playing football. And what the hell is Reading doing wearing an all Orange Kit? Is it as bad as the silver and red that Liverpool trotted out yesterday against the Gunners? Or as bad as the Day glo yellow that Chelsea sometimes sports?

The EPL coda for uniform distinction makes for some ugly combinations. The Chelsea road construction crew kit is purely intentional - it's their second jersey when they come up against another blue team (e.g. Everton).

The Liverpool gray / silver is in itself a bit different, but the uniform has gray shirt, gray short, and gray socks, so at least it looks as if it should all go together. I suppose the gray was too close to the Arsenal white shorts and socks so it looks as if they mixed two uniforms - looked like a reserve team with hand-me-downs - to get the contrast.

let's see what they do against ManU at OT. Same issue of shorts (white vs grey). It's clearly outside of my expertise to comment on color combinations but it's a bit surprising that they would pick a color combo that doesn't work against their two biggest rivals (those for whom color is an issue, anyway).

[Sachsen]

Well, it looks like Case wasn't satisfied with the thread, he's gone to Jim Allen as well: ;)

http://www.askasoccerreferee.com/?p=910

Jim pulls out the "trifling" bomb again. Here we go!

[Rufusabc]

I could care less what color the undershorts were. I would make sure the fouls were seen and recognized and my restarts were correct. I know we love to parse every last detail of every game, but calling foul play is my number one and worying about the color of the shorts is about number 367

[NHRef]

the problem with the "trifling" argument is this:

We have a tournament that has this rule, I forget which one, but it can be VERY cold. I think its the state championships (not state cup). They have a rule about no leggings under the shorts. Basically long pants.

Was an AR on a game that was VERY cold. One girl (U14 I think) had them on, we talked about and and went with trifling, why cause an issue etc. Heck we wanted to wear pants! At halftime, the other coach complained, pointing out that it wasn't fair because his team didn't wear them because they said in the rules they couldn't.

He had a point, we told the other coach his girl had to remove them, boy did we catch crap for that. On the plus side the CR was one of the up and coming teenage girl refs in the area, and my first chance to watch her ply her trade. She handled the situation and the coach great.

[andymoss]

At halftime, the other coach complained, pointing out that it wasn't fair because his team didn't wear them because they said in the rules they couldn't.

Two words - Tournament Director.

We do the LOTG stuff and he/she does the Tournament Rules stuff.

[colins1993]

I could care less what color the undershorts were. I would make sure the fouls were seen and recognized and my restarts were correct. I know we love to parse every last detail of every game, but calling foul play is my number one and worying about the color of the shorts is about number 367

AMEN bro.

[boylanj64]

Two words - Tournament Director.

We do the LOTG stuff and he/she does the Tournament Rules stuff.

Except for when they feel the need to overrule you. I once told a U10 player I did not consider his cleats safe and instead of changing, he went and got th tournament director to tell me to let him play. Of course, his team just happened to be the tournament hosts.

[andymoss]

Except for when they feel the need to overrule you. I once told a U10 player I did not consider his cleats safe and instead of changing, he went and got th tournament director to tell me to let him play. Of course, his team just happened to be the tournament hosts.

Safety of the players, incl. their equipment is up to me. No tournament director is going to overrule me on anything related to laws 1 and/or 4.

[Gary V]

Except for when they feel the need to overrule you. I once told a U10 player I did not consider his cleats safe and instead of changing, he went and got th tournament director to tell me to let him play. Of course, his team just happened to be the tournament hosts.That tournament director would be looking for a new referee very quickly. And the State committee that authorizes tournaments would be hearing from me too.