VfB Stuttgart Thread- Winter Pause und Ruckrunde 08-09[R]

[Rainer24]

For those who didn't know, Artur Boka signed a one-year extension with VfB the other day.

According to this Soccernet.com article (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=609719&sec=transfers&cc=5739), Boka turned down an offer from Tottenham to remain in Stuttgart even after his superstar international compatriot, Didier Drogba, advised him to join Spurs.

You guys will love what Boka says about VfB in the article.

Great going on Boka's part! :D


Nice. Now if he would just find some form!

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Regarding Boka's contract, totally agree with Rainer:

I love the quotes from there, it always makes me happy when players feel proud, happy and priviliged to play for VfB. But now he still has to start playing well :)

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/502951/

Kicker article with a lot of random information:
- Talked about Boka signing a new contract.
- Talked about what will happen with Lehmann. It seems as if he will decide after the Zenit St. Petersburg games. Also says that if he does leave, it is most likely that either Stolz or Ulreich(at the moment probably Stolz) will replace him.

Regarding what strikers to play in the VfB-ScheissBayern game - Marica is definitely out after picking up an injury in Portugal. Cacau may be back but he's still only doing light training so it's uncertain. Gomez is obviously gonna take up one of the spots, and Schieber could take the other. They expect him to be able to fight for a starting spot in the Rueckrunde. Ljuboja's future continues to look bleak: he purposefully didn't go to Portugal as he wanted to go on trial with a club, but the trial never took place. His contract runs out in the summer and I wouldn't expect him to play any role in the Rueckrunde.

Regarding tactic, Babbel won't experiment around and will keep the 4-4-2 it seems.

There are also contract extensions being discussed with Traesch and Schieber (who is still on an amateur contract.

[Equilibrium]

IMO, top 5 is arguable. Top 10 definitely.
Who are your top 5 then? Aguerro and Benzema are two along with Gomez.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Pato also...

[Equilibrium]

Pato is much younger than Gomez atm but he is not in his class yet.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Really? I personally think Pato is much better than Super Mario, I tip him to become one of the best strikers in the world, if not THE best.

[footyfan1]

Really? I personally think Pato is much better than Super Mario, I tip him to become one of the best strikers in the world, if not THE best.

Totally agree.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Also agreed. Isn't Pato like 18 too?

[kaiser kraut]

I believe I read a story today about Kaka that mentioned Pato is 19

[Rainer24]

I would still take Mario if I had to choose between the two, but it may not remain that way for long.

[footyfan1]

Guys, please remember that in this "top five young strikers in Europe" thing I used the word "arguable".

I say that because when I post my list, people will "yell" Gomez is better than him or him or him. I used the word "arguable" because I know Rainer's opinion means something.

In this thing, please remember the word "arguable" and that yours or mine isn't the only opinion.

I'm not going to list who I think the top five are. That will just make the argument worse.

I will list who I think are my "top ten young strikers in Europe." I will only identify who I think is the best of them is.

One other thing, we also didn't identify what age a "young forward" is. So I just tried to stick with guys Gomez' age, younger than him or one year older.


I think the top guy is someone no one mentioned.

That is Lionel Messi. Yes, Messi is a striker. A forward. He can do it all, but he's a striker.


Then I go on with Fernando Torres, Sergio Aguero, Karim Benzema, Alexandre Pato, Gonzalo Higuain, Mario Gomez, Wayne Rooney, Emmanuel Adebayor, and from right here in Germany, Patrick Helmes.

I make my top five from that list and arguably Gomez can be in that top five. Arguably, he can be left off.

It's a matter of opinion. Most I know right now would not have Gomez in the top five of that list.

But again, it is a matter of opinion.

Oh, and don't be surprised if later this season or next season, Lukas Podolski makes an assault on re-claiming his spot on that list.......

[Rainer24]

That's a very good list and I don't think any of the names stick out as not deserving to be on the list. There are plenty of other guys you could list as well, or not.

I think the only thing you can really say is that he is the sort of player that will be pursued by top level clubs and be expected to be a top performer for those sorts of teams. Any sort of ranking beyond that is going to be highly subjective. I mean, do we want to consider Cristiano Ronaldo a forward? I certainly would, but others wouldn't. Anyway, they are all fantastic players.

I rate Mario very highly and I like to think that would also be the case even if he didn't play for my team. I hope we can hang on to him for at least another season, because I don't see any of the guys in the youth ranks as being ready to step up and we all know we aren't going to spend the sort of money needed to replace him with anyone of note.

[footyfan1]

That's a very good list and I don't think any of the names stick out as not deserving to be on the list. There are plenty of other guys you could list as well, or not.

I think the only thing you can really say is that he is the sort of player that will be pursued by top level clubs and be expected to be a top performer for those sorts of teams. Any sort of ranking beyond that is going to be highly subjective. I mean, do we want to consider Cristiano Ronaldo a forward? I certainly would, but others wouldn't. Anyway, they are all fantastic players.

I rate Mario very highly and I like to think that would also be the case even if he didn't play for my team. I hope we can hang on to him for at least another season, because I don't see any of the guys in the youth ranks as being ready to step up and we all know we aren't going to spend the sort of money needed to replace him with anyone of note.


Cristiano Ronaldo is still very much an attacking midfielder. Had he been a striker, I would have listed a "top two" instead of just Messi.

And dropping someone from that list would have been pretty hard.

[Rainer24]

Cristiano Ronaldo is still very much an attacking midfielder. Had he been a striker, I would have listed a "top two" instead of just Messi.

And dropping someone from that list would have been pretty hard.


How's that? He spent most of last year in that system with Rooney and Tevez where they were all moving about freely, sometimes in midfield, sometimes at forward. CR even played as a long striker at times last season. If anything, the guy is a wing forward. Again, my opinion, but he is not a traditional attacking mid.

[footyfan1]

How's that? He spent most of last year in that system with Rooney and Tevez where they were all moving about freely, sometimes in midfield, sometimes at forward. CR even played as a long striker at times last season. If anything, the guy is a wing forward. Again, my opinion, but he is not a traditional attacking mid.

OK. Add him. Just proves my original point even more. ;) :D

[Rainer24]

OK. Add him. Just proves my original point even more. ;) :D


Indeed it does.

[The Old Lady Hertha]

1. Messi
2. Torres
3. Higuain
4. Rooney
5. Benzema

5 strikers better than Gomez IMHO

Then there's also Pato, Kun Aguero, Giuseppe Rossi, Juan Manuel Mata, Adebayor, Tevez, Martins (depending on if you believe his age ;) ) who also have a case as well. I still don't think Gomez is above most of them...

[Equilibrium]

1. Messi
2. Torres
3. Higuain
4. Rooney
5. Benzema

5 strikers better than Gomez IMHO

Then there's also Pato, Kun Aguero, Giuseppe Rossi, Juan Manuel Mata, Adebayor, Tevez, Martins (depending on if you believe his age ;) ) who also have a case as well. I still don't think Gomez is above most of them...
Rooney is included as well? No way in hell is Higuain better than him nor should be anywhere near the first 5. The guy is having a great season only this season, unless we talk about 1 season wonders, like Torres was last season. I don't really include Torres, Rooney or Tevez really because they are established and would definitely be ahead of him. In that case, Adebayor would definitely be ahead of him, Benzema as well as the number 1 pick who I have no idea how missed your top 5 list, Aguerro (whose better than and has done more than everyone else bar the young and very established players like Rooney). Maybe young that have been on the scene and blew up the past 2-3 seasons. :p

Messi I don't really consider a striker. Forward yes, but not striker. He is a winger like Ronaldo for example.

I don't know how Pato has done more than Gomez or has come close to it, Rossi and Martins are decent shouts but I would easily have Gomez over them as well imo.
I make my top five from that list and arguably Gomez can be in that top five. Arguably, he can be left off.

It's a matter of opinion. Most I know right now would not have Gomez in the top five of that list.

But again, it is a matter of opinion.
Completely agree. I think Messi can be a good ST but he is really a winger and should be used like one. Ribery could probably play AM but no one should list him as such just because he's capable of playing it.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

I don't know how Pato has done more than Gomez or has come close to it, Rossi and Martins are decent shouts but I would easily have Gomez over them as well imo.


My reasons were:

1. Top scorer for Milan, one of the best clubs in the world, since he arrived.
2. Significantly younger than Mario. Gomez was playing 3rd league at Pato's age.
3. Technically more gifted than Gomez, and faster.
4. Milan play with one striker, and Pato has forced Inzaghi, Shevchenko and Borriello, all good strikers (I know Inzaghi and Sheva are getting older, but they're still good. Both would probably score 15 plus goals in Germany.)
5. Pato has arguably been Milan's best player this season. That's right, I honestly think so. And many Milan fans would agree. Kaka and Ronaldinho have been good, but neither have been at their top form.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Anyway, to bring this back to VfB:

Last test match was a 2-2 draw against Freiburg.

Here's the team that played:
Lehmann - Osorio (46. Funk), Boulahrouz, Mandjeck, Träsch - Hilbert (73. Elson), Khedira, Lanig, Simak - Cacau (70. Schieber), Gomez

Gomez scored our first goal, a nice lob over the keeper.
The second goal was scored by Elson It was a great goal, outplayed two opposition players and hit a shot from outside the box into the top corner. Although he came on late, he was very good in the highlights. Maybe he'll still be able to fight for a first team spot.

On the other players:
Lehmann was solid, no surprise. Boulahrouz made one notable mistake but was probably our best defender. Mandjeck was our worst player on the field, often looking very insecure and directly causing a number of big chances for Freiburg. I remain unconvinced that he will make the grade. But we'll see.

Traesch and Schieber recently signed full long-term professional contracts. Traesch got to play the full 90 minutes, Schieber came on as a sub for Cacau, who wasn't particularly good.

In midfield, all the players were solid. Simak and Khedira were the best probably.

Gomez again showed his ability to get himself into opportunities. If only he could dust off his finishing. Missed one big sitter. But his goal was very nicely executed.