VfB Stuttgart Thread- Winter Pause und Ruckrunde 08-09[R]

[Rainer24]

Oh, I'm not calling for Hitzi to be benched, stripped of the captaincy, or anything else like that. I just hope he picks it up sometime soon. I don't want to bag on him too much, but Khedira has emerged as the clear choice to partner him at center mid, and Sami has had a good season. If the captain can get his stuff together, I think our performance will improve considerably.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Totally agree on Khedira - he's been imo easily our best midfielder so far this season.

[+Gooner+]

Hm, but Hitzlsperger seems to be in a constant crisis with short-term ups like he second part of the 2007 season. He seems to slow down the game, waste chances by hammering on the goal while he almost always misses and imo most of the time scores by chance, he doesn't commit himself to tackles and usually does what I call alibi-tackles if he doesn't just run next to the opponent with an 4 meter space between him and the player. He just doesn't create much, he rather has a hard to notice negative effect. And VfB could just play without a captain which is a pity. One can't underestimate the effect of a good leader in a team on the game. But when there is a discussion and a captain like JT would jump into the players or refs face to defende his teammate Thomas will be the last player to say anything.

I would just find it sad because he seems like such a nice and decent guy but then he's giving those interchangeable interviews and talks talks talks but does not perform. :rolleyes:

I think Khedira has the bite to make a good captain and Gomez might stay another season. Even if not, I think having a real captain for the rest of the season would help the team a lot. I am fully aware though that demoting Hitz would cause some fuzz and stuff like this is always humiliating and yeah, I like him. Football is no place for sentimentality though, is it?

[robledo]

Boulahrouz Tiring Of Stuttgart Sidelines

Dutch international defender Khalid Boulahrouz admitted that he is becoming increasingly allergic to the VfB Stuttgart bench...

The tough-tackling 26-year-old has struggled to make the desired impact since arriving from Chelsea on a €5 million deal in the summer, with a series of niggling injuries preventing him from getting any sort of continuity in the side.

Even when healthy the ex Hamburg standout has often been forced to sit on the sidelines, however, which is increasingly not sitting well with him.

"It is getting on my nerves to be on the substitutes' bench, but there is no player bigger than a team or a club," he said in recent interview with the Bild newspaper.

"You are obviously disappointed when you are not playing regularly, especially in times when you feel yourself at full fitness.

"I am sure my time in the first team will come soon and then everyone will see the best of me and not the one I was thus far or at Sevilla FC. I am ready now," he added, alluding to his less than stellar time at Chelsea and in Spain on loan.

Boulahrouz did take strength, however, from the fact that Stuttgart made no attempt to sell him during the January window despite reported interest from his ex club HSV.

"VFB did not want me to leave, and that's a pretty good signal I think," he concluded.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Well, no reports in Germany regarding Boulah's unease :rolleyes:


Either way he'll probably start this weekend since Delpierre is likely to miss the game due to some back injury. If he does well he could take Delpierre's place for long run since Delpierre has had a shaky start to the new year.


In other news, Ljuboja ********ed up again and is now back training with the amateurs due to 'poor discipline' :p - so I guess he's now DEFINITELY played his last game for VfB. 3 years too late unfortunately. I swear he's gotta be the stupidest footballer i've ever heard of.


So two days to Leverkusen away. Guys that's gonna be a reeeeeeallllly tough match. If we got a point i'd be pleased but Leverkusen are the big favourites i'd say. I'm not looking forward to the game much.

[footyfan1]

In other news, Ljuboja ********ed up again and is now back training with the amateurs due to 'poor discipline' :p - so I guess he's now DEFINITELY played his last game for VfB. 3 years too late unfortunately. I swear he's gotta be the stupidest footballer i've ever heard of.

That f#cker must be mental. VfB is the perfect club to show that he can be a major player on this stage!

Seeing that he was a troublemaker everywhere else he went, I say you guys should cut your losses and just buy out this f#cking idiot.

Why pay his salary and keep him around?? Let him go start shit at some other club.

[hackespitze123]

Should Andreas Beck play in the international friendly against Norway next week, which is rather likely, Stuttgart will be paid €500.000 by Hoffenheim, as they had agreed to do when they signed him.

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/stuttgart/2009/02/06/andi-beck/500-000-euro-extra-fuer-den-vfb.html

[Rainer24]

Should Andreas Beck play in the international friendly against Norway next week, which is rather likely, Stuttgart will be paid €500.000 by Hoffenheim, as they had agreed to do when they signed him.

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/stuttgart/2009/02/06/andi-beck/500-000-euro-extra-fuer-den-vfb.html


That's good, but I'd rather we had him than that money. I'm still pissed about them selling him.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Me too - and I said all along it would be stupid to sell such a talent. But Veh never saw what we did apparently.

[hackespitze123]

Gomez scored against Leverkusen (3rd minute), 1-0 Stuttgart.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

WOW Super Mario scores!!!

3rd minute we're ahead! Magnin gives a good cross in from the left and strong finish by Gomez!

I really didn't expect this - but we're in front.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

GOOOOOOOALLLLLLLL 2-0 50th minute.

And do you guys know who ********ing scored????

THOMAS ********ING HITZLSPPPPPPERGGGGGGGGERRRRR


DER HAMMMER

Brilliant, brilliant goal!

And we're a man up, Vidal got sent off! We should really hold onto this - this would be an awesome, awesome victory.

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Ok Gomez could've made the 3-0 a minute ago, instead Leverkusen score and only 2-1 now.

I'll be sooo furious if, with a man up, they throw this away. Come on boys!

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

But Super Mario finishes it off!!!!!!

Great job boys!!!

[Rainer24]

Game, set, match! Great result! Keep that up!

[Vfbstuttgartfan]

Ok this was maybe the best performance all season.

4-2 in the end, Khedira netted one aswell. I'll give a bigger review later but this is really an awesome, awesome result.

AUSWAERTSSIEG!!!!

[+Gooner+]

Sweet! :)

[benztown]

I haven't seen the game yet, but sounds like a great victory. Gomez is as reliable as ever and I'm also glad that Hitz scored one. With all the Hitz-bashing going on recently, I kinda felt sorry for him. I think that he's the most underrated player we have.

[TheBoss84]

Congrats to the win. You played a great game. BTW does anyone know when Gebhart will be back?

[Equilibrium]

I cannot believe I missed this somehow.

Gomez has higher goalscoring figures? Depends how you look at it.
The normal human beings usually looks at which scores more than the other. The people that want to make a point no matter what do it differently.

Overall in all competitions he has scored more. BUT you need to look where: he has hit 5 goals in 6 games in the UEFA Cup. You cannot compare that to Pato, since Pato never plays in the UEFA Cup - he's been deemed to good to play in that competition so far this season, he's always been rested on UEFA Cup day.
Too good to play there? Players like Kaka and Ronnie weren't too good though?!

Now here comes the funny part. He wasn't too good to play since he's played in UEFA. He played and started for 1 of the 2 matches to qualify for UEFA Cup and scored 1 in those games, since you liked to take off Gomez's goals for absolutely no reason. :rolleyes: He was used mostly as a substitute, but he's still played in every match. He played half of one match where he got another goal from UEFA which you claim to be useless. The reason he didn't play is because Ancelotti wanted to test out a proven but very old striker like Inzaghi and also hopped Sheva could come back to his old form that he had before he left to Chelsea. However when you believe bullsh1t like he was too good to play, I don't know what to say really.

Then Gomez has hit 2 goals in the DFB Pokal. To be precise, 2 goals against Hansa Lueneberg. So let's count those out
Why not just count every single goal Gomez has scored out just because Pato didn't score as much in other competitions bar the league then? Ohhh.. you are way ahead of me. :rolleyes:

Now, to the leagues. Gomez has hit 7 goals in 16 league games, 15 of which were as a starter. Pato has hit 9 goals in 19 league games, of which only 13 were as a starter. So looking at this way Pato has the better statistics. Even though he plays in what most would agree is a better division
He does play in a better league with much better defenders, yet he has a midfield that's a hell lot better than what Gomez has which is why he's had some tap ins (Gomez too mind you).

Milan have played with two strikers quite a few times this season. But Ancelotti decided that the side played better with one striker, namely Pato, than with two. That's not Pato being lucky to have a system that works for him, as you seem to try and portray it, it is Pato having proven himself to help the team the most in this position, more than anyone else could help it in that position, and thus the team building a formation around him since that is where they have gotten the best results.

That should be an argument for Pato, not against him.
This is because of the large quality of midfielders of coarse. I said he plays in a Christmas tree formation which the whole team plays for him. Gomez has to share the chances with another. Simple concept to grasp no?

Dinho may not be the best player in the world anymore, but he's still damn good. And we know he can score tons of goals.
Kaka is still one of the best players in the world and has been Milan's top scorer in past seasons.
Then there's the strikers who have been confined to the bench by Pato: Sheva or Inzaghi - both would stand a good chance of being Milan's top scorer (indeed both have been in the past) if they were regular starters - but they are not. Why? Because Pato has been better.
- If Rhonaldinho can be top scorer at this day and age anywhere, it's because you have a garbage quality of strikers up front. I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe Ronnie is good enough to be top scorer in a team, while having a clinical striker. We saw how many goals he scored last season, and the season before that if you take out the penalties. It's good for a winger, but crap if a top striker can't outscore him.

- Kaka is a 15-20 goal type of player. Again, outscoring him in a tree formation when you will get countless chances as the main goal scorer is not something everyone should be amazed about. It's to be expected, not f#cking amazed from.

- Pato is better than Shevchenko? Who isn't better than Sheva anymore? I don't understand why you put useless names like him to make a point. Inzaghi has been past his best since they won the CL. He is more of a super-sub/depth player to have around. He is no longer THE striker to have anymore. Benching him is still one hell of an achievement from Pato, it's not something I see Gomez having any trouble doing if he could adapt to the league either.

And then there's another one no one has mentioned - Marco Borriello. Who is he? Oh, he just happens to be LAST SEASON'S SERIE A TOPSCORER!

The poor guy has been injured for most of the season, but even when he was fit Pato was playing better out of the two. And Borriello - who also got to play as lone striker a few times, managed only 1 goal in this 'ass-kissing system' in like 5 or 6 games he started.
Errr you never heard of players simply not working for a club? Gilardino was destroying Serie A and went to Milan and somehow turned into an average player... Same exact thing is happening with Borriello. Everyone has already grasped this, why haven't you?

I know ' we are talking about now' - and I believe Pato is currently better than Gomez. And younger. My point was in the future he will most likely be EVEN better. But since you think that football fans aren't supposed to talk about the future unless they are professional psychics, I will reiterate that I CURRENTLY consider him the better player.
In the future, I stated in another post that he has every chance to be better than Gomez. I won't say whether it'll happen or not, but he has every chance to do so. You can have your opinion of him being better than Gomez, but he sure as hell hasn't shown it on the scoresheet and I doubt he will this season either. Again, Gomez will probably have around 10 more goals than Pato.

I don't really think so - heading is the only attribute in which I consider Gomez better than Pato. Finishing? How many VfB games have you watched this season? Gomez's 100% chance conversion rate is about 1 in 4. He's excellent at getting himself into brilliant chances, this season however he has suffered in his finishing - any VfB fans here could back me up on this. Pato has had much better finishing.
Pato has missed a sh1t load of chances dude, even in the beginning of the season. You have basically watched him for 4-5 games straight where he's on fire and basically made this idea that he always finishes that well. That isn't the case since he hasn't done it at all bar 1 or so month time period since he's joined Milan, but it's your opinion and I'll leave it there.

I don't get how highlighting a player's technical superiorities is not valid WHEN YOU ARE MAKING A DIRECT COMPARISON BETWEEN THE TWO. It's a natural thing to do.

'Technical awareness'? I'm not sure what you mean about that, but noting quick technical aspects, I will say: 1. Pato dribbles better. 2. Pato passes better. 3. Pato creates chances for other players better. 4. Pato has less situations where he misscontrols the ball leading to a ball loss, throw ins, etc.

Gomez is better in some aspects: I think he's got better off the ball movement. And he's better in the air. But that's about it.
They are different types of strikers, therefore both will automatically have attributes they are better at then the other. That was my point.

I hate it when fans make this point, it always seems to be a lame cheap shot that some people pepperspray into the middle of their argument.

And with me you have unfortunately picked perhaps the worst person to say this to.
I wouldn't say this if your description of player is basically how he's played for 1 month and half, while the other time he's played for Milan has been completely different which is a whole other season in total (nearly). Now that you tell that you've watched most Milan games, you surprise me even more.

I agree he is not a world-beater anymore. But if he played for VfB, he'd still be the club's top scorer. I'm practically certain. More goals than Gomez. But here i'm admittedly jsut being subjective.
Your opinion, but I do disagree in every way possible with you about this.

Well, Gilardino hit 15 goals his first season at Milan, pretty impressive. His last season was bad, true, i'd argue to a large extent because Pato started playing after winter and thus relegated Gilardino permanently to the bench. Gila now plays for Fiorentina - a side who'd be amongst the best if they were in Germany. And he's playing very well for them. I rate Gomez currently as being slightly better than Gilardino. Pato was significantly better.

But again I apologize as this too is subjective.
15 goals is decent for a striker, it's not impressive for Milan's tree formation. In that formation, you SHOULD score 20 goals per season to be successful and 25 to have a good season/impressive one. Gilardino was hardly every impressive for Milan, you are the first to tell me this. Flop, failure, etc are the words Milan fans use to describe Gilardino to me when talking about Milan.

Well, yeah Borriello has been injured for 80% of this season. And he was good whenever I saw him. Just not nearly as good as Pato.
Borriello has been very average for the most part for me, others have different expectations.

As for Borowski - since he's so useless can you please offload him to us?
A straight swap for Gomez and it's a deal.

Probably zero 'big clubs'. But we're comparing with Gomez, thus inevitably comparing with VfB. He would definitely start for VfB. And he'd probably have more goals in the league than Gomez has - i'm saying this hypothetically obviously.

On a sidenote i'll note fairly that Gomez's biggest impact has been in the UEFA Cup, not the league. He has practically carried us kicking and screaming through the competition so far. So I don't forget that.
You can't judge the league though. One moment a player is hot and another moment he's cold. We will see at the end of the season how much each scores in all competitions and the league.

This argument is closed for me now, I have made all the points behind which I formed my opinion and have answered to all of yours. There is nothing else I can say on this now, and I think this post highlights well enough why I believe Pato is the better of the two.
Allright, but I have said my piece now as well.
--

Btw, congrats on the win today. :)