Super Y given ODP Status - what does it mean?

[GersMan]

Note the 2nd graph in the link below. Any more info on this anybody?

http://www.superyleague.com/mediacenter/A/42466_E.html

Seems to at least potentially preempt a lot of the lofty predictions given earlier about US Club being the end of ODP.

[GersMan]

http://www.superyleague.com/mediacenter/H/42212_E.html

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by GersMan
Note the 2nd graph in the link below. Any more info on this anybody?

http://www.superyleague.com/mediacenter/A/42466_E.html

Seems to at least potentially preempt a lot of the lofty predictions given earlier about US Club being the end of ODP.

I think the ODP notion at issue was the State Team/Regional team approach of USYSA. ODP status is conferred to ensure a uniform set of amateur rules are followed, much like the PDL ODP exemption for college players. It's always in the interest of USSF and USOC to sanction organized amateur groups like Super Y league and US Club Soccer.

[JohnR]

And to be "granted ODP status" means exactly what? Besides two organizations scratching each other's backs?

[GersMan]

I think it becomes a selling point for Super Y. It's also a way for ODP to expand, to include more players. Again, the camp thing could become less important through it.

Actually, if youth players would just eschew high school, a national youth league in Fall would not be that hard to do. You can have regional divisions, divided by population areas/pro teams (played at the same time as statewide leagues for those just below that cut) And then each state could have its USYSA State Cup competition in the spring followed by regionals and nationals. Then in the summer you finish selecting your ODP league teams for the following season and actually have some time off before the Fall.

[Dan Roudebush]

This may be a way out for members of US Club Soccer.

"Bear" (who hasn't posted for a long time) and Karl Keller have written about ODP conflicts with club ball in the Chi area.. Both time and money.

I assume US Club Socer has sanctioned Super Y League play, although I could not find anything on their site (Dsocc any input here ?).

[Karl K]

A couple of general comments.

First, I don't think anyone has said that US Club will be the "death of ODP." Could US Club and and the Super Y League eventually, over time, marginalize ODP as expressed throught the State Association tryout and regional camp approach? Yes that COULD happen, though if it were to happen, it would take some time. This formal conferring of ODP status on Super Y maybe the first step in such a marginalizing process.

Second, my understanding of the USSF structure is that US Club and the USL (under whose auspices Super Y plays) are separate member organizations of the USSF.

Third, some may conclude that that this development means US Soccer and Super Y are somehow at loggerheads. Well, the two USSF member organizations have already established a formal partnership. See:

http://www.usclubsoccer.com/news/index.cfm?n=17

In fact, Super Y League only goes from late Spring through the end of Summer, as does the PDL. As such, there is effectively the Fall season and the better part of the Spring season where Super Y is not active (and the winter months in the west, south, and south west, where outdoor soccer can be played).

[GersMan]

Karl - just to clarify - I know you haven't made any such prediction. I was thinking of some of the correspondence on that other board of the less-restrained claims from some Club Soccer advocates about what they could do.

It seems to me that Super Y getting this status is actually a boost for ODP, essentially putting it under its umbrella.

The seasons do make a difference. I agree.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Dan Roudebush
This may be a way out for members of US Club Soccer.

"Bear" (who hasn't posted for a long time) and Karl Keller have written about ODP conflicts with club ball in the Chi area.. Both time and money.

I assume US Club Socer has sanctioned Super Y League play, although I could not find anything on their site (Dsocc any input here ?).

Dan,
Effectively yes. See Karl's reply.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
A couple of general comments.

First, I don't think anyone has said that US Club will be the "death of ODP." Could US Club and and the Super Y League eventually, over time, marginalize ODP as expressed throught the State Association tryout and regional camp approach? Yes that COULD happen, though if it were to happen, it would take some time. This formal conferring of ODP status on Super Y maybe the first step in such a marginalizing process.



Karl,
Good observation. For those who aren't aware of it, the beauty of the US Club Soccer approach is that its player and team memberships are completly seamless and transportable. That is to say that any player carded in US Club may play for any other age appropriate team in the US Club system at any time. Further, any team may play any other team in the system without state sanctioning requirements. This is the best of worlds for top clubs (and players) who mostly travel and don't want to be locked into subpar league schedules just for the sake of State Cup events.
From my conversations with a number of these clubs, they're more than willing to forego State Cup competitions for a format that produces a higher level of competition and flexibility for both teams and players. This approach fits in extremely well with Super Y League. I can imagine with the demise of Umbro, if USL looks to Nike as it's next sponsor, the die will be cast for melding both of these programs into one.

[Karl K]

Originally posted by Dsocc
From my conversations with a number of these clubs, they're more than willing to forego State Cup competitions for a format that produces a higher level of competition and flexibility for both teams and players. This approach fits in extremely well with Super Y League. I can imagine with the demise of Umbro, if USL looks to Nike as it's next sponsor, the die will be cast for melding both of these programs into one.

Thanks for the props.

Some clubs have already taken the plunge and severed their ties completely from the state organizations to play exclusively with a US Club pass. Others continue to "double register" -- i.e., with both a state pass and a US Club pass.

For US Club, the critical event was earlier this year receiving membership status from the USSF. Then all the dominoes could fall nicely for it -- and the state organizations, which once were the sole competitive structure for elite clubs, are now just AN option.

This process, I think, will be evolutionary; some clubs will go whole hog for it, others will tread cautiously. But things are going to change.

Meanwhile, you make an intriguing point about Nike. I would not be surprised if Nike makes its way into the mix -- the marketing opportunities may be too good to pass up.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Karl Keller


Meanwhile, you make an intriguing point about Nike. I would not be surprised if Nike makes its way into the mix -- the marketing opportunities may be too good to pass up.

Nike is already the primary sponsor of US Club Soccer.

[Karl K]

Originally posted by Dsocc
Nike is already the primary sponsor of US Club Soccer.
Didn't know that...though it is not surprising.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Karl Keller

Didn't know that...though it is not surprising.

Not only not surprising, but telling. Sort of the subtle point I was trying to make over on the State of ODP thread.

[Dan Roudebush]

$64 question.

If an MLS club formed a pro youth development team and joined US Club Soccer (assuming they would not be denied) then they could shuffle players though their system from other Clubs. Right?

So what wou happen if some of these players were let go to return to another super club, BUT MLS paid their membership fees? Or made arrangements with a third party to do so. The MLS using private clubs as a "farm system" for marginal players, bringing them "up" or sending them "down".

For pro washouts forget problems with Division I colleges. Division II & lower could pick the player up if their was a pro "stigma" attached.

Could be closer to a European/Latin system of development then we think. If we could just get the MLS to have their first "club" teams.

[Karl K]

For player movements BETWEEN clubs in the US Club world, see their player rules policy

http://www.usclubsoccer.com/images/pdf/11.pdf

The policy explicity states you can't be registered on two different US Club clubs at the same time, nor can players be "transferred" from one club to another.

However, there are provisions to "loan" a player to different clubs in the context of "sanctioned" competitions.

So, if MLS has a reserve team that is, say, a US Club member, and they want to have Player X from FC Delco play for them, then the two clubs can execute a loan agreement wherby the Delco player could dress, presumably for a game or tournament competition.

One would deduce that the reverse could work too.

The other thing that is interesting about these policies is that clubs can release players more or less at will, and players can more or less leave at any time under mutual agreement. This is in contrast with most of the State association rules, where once you are rostered on a team for a seasonal year, you (and your club) are pretty much bound to one another for the entire year.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
For player movements BETWEEN clubs in the US Club world, see their player rules policy

http://www.usclubsoccer.com/images/pdf/11.pdf

The policy explicity states you can't be registered on two different US Club clubs at the same time, nor can players be "transferred" from one club to another.

However, there are provisions to "loan" a player to different clubs in the context of "sanctioned" competitions.

So, if MLS has a reserve team that is, say, a US Club member, and they want to have Player X from FC Delco play for them, then the two clubs can execute a loan agreement wherby the Delco player could dress, presumably for a game or tournament competition.

One would deduce that the reverse could work too.

The other thing that is interesting about these policies is that clubs can release players more or less at will, and players can more or less leave at any time under mutual agreement. This is in contrast with most of the State association rules, where once you are rostered on a team for a seasonal year, you (and your club) are pretty much bound to one another for the entire year.

Karl,
Fine explanation. It's my prediction that this will be the primary vehicle for MLS and other pro clubs to use in developing their own youth systems. I could never imagine professional clubs having to deal with state associations, and now they won't have to.
The possibilities for the MNT are even more intriguing. If Arena or his staff want to see players X,Y and Z in action in a particular format, they just call the clubs in question and arrange the appropriate player loans for the event. This kind of flexibility puts the USSF/MNT directly in the drivers seat when it comes to player identification and development.

[Dan Roudebush]

Whoa Dsocc.

If you subsitute MLS for MNT I can agree with you.

It's MLS that should be looking for young players to turn pro.

The chances of the MNT finding another Pele are one in a lifetime.

And I'm sure your aware where pro youth development squads exist youth nat teams do not produce WC squad players. The pro leagues do.

But I agree Bruce has a role here. That's defusing potential conflicts between elite clubs and pro youth clubs.

Wouldn't it be great if he brokered a deal between US Club soccer and MLS to re-inforce player exchanges Karl thinks is feasible under the present US Club rules. Or even extended them a bit per my previous suggestion. In effect he acts as a catalyst to get rid of current "winning problems" with the emphasis on development.

Might even see elite clubs seting up teams with pro development as the goal for players versus playing winning ball to impress college coaches.Certainly a club the was known to "feed" players to MLS pro youth clubs would have a different carrot to attract top players.

Kick it all off with an offer from USSF of a million if owners provide matching dollars for MLS to form their own pro youth teams.

[Dsocc]

Originally posted by Dan Roudebush
Whoa Dsocc.

If you subsitute MLS for MNT I can agree with you.

It's MLS that should be looking for young players to turn pro.

The chances of the MNT finding another Pele are one in a lifetime.

And I'm sure your aware where pro youth development squads exist youth nat teams do not produce WC squad players. The pro leagues do.

But I agree Bruce has a role here. That's defusing potential conflicts between elite clubs and pro youth clubs.

Wouldn't it be great if he brokered a deal between US Club soccer and MLS to re-inforce player exchanges Karl thinks is feasible under the present US Club rules. Or even extended them a bit per my previous suggestion. In effect he acts as a catalyst to get rid of current "winning problems" with the emphasis on development.

Might even see elite clubs seting up teams with pro development as the goal for players versus playing winning ball to impress college coaches.Certainly a club the was known to "feed" players to MLS pro youth clubs would have a different carrot to attract top players.

Kick it all off with an offer from USSF of a million if owners provide matching dollars for MLS to form their own pro youth teams.

My guess is that it will be some time before any pro youth squads have players who are actually paid (below U18), since college is still an option for those who don't make the final cut as a pro. I think a system like this allows both sides (pro and MNT/YNT) to have their cake and eat it too. The pros can have a flexible league system for their youth players regionally and nationally, and the MNT/YNT can use the system as an ongoing way to evaluate those players before calling them into camp(s).

[GersMan]

In UK the cutoff age for a pro contract is 16, but we don't have a hard and fast rule for this, do we? I know Quaranta and Convey were getting paid, but they were not finished with high school yet, so I don't think there's some LINE.

My take on the reserve teams that Garber has spoken of is that it is for players from 16-24 and that the players would be under contract.

But will we see pro clubs have "amateur" youth teams from ages 12 to 15??? Well, that could be interesting.