(NSR) The Portuguese In Brazil

[JJ Mindset]

Hi. I'm hoping someone would inform me better on this. This question is about the Portuguese community in Brazil. Basically, I'm trying to learn a bit more about the relationship between Portugal and Brazil, not just in terms of the colonial era but also the years after Brazil gained its independence.

First of all, why is there a Portuguese community referred to in Brazil, when it's the official language of the country? What are the main differences between the Portuguese today and the rest of the population of Brazil? Would it have anything to do with the European-ness of the people in question, as opposed to the people of African and native descent and mixed persons?

All serious responses will be welcomed. :)

[MIGkiller]

What we call the Portuguese community in Brazil today is formed of recent immigration ex-pats from Portugal and their first generations descendents who keep a close connection to their original culture.

They would differ from the rest of the population because the Brazilian people as we know today was formed by centuries of mixing of 3 main cultures: the natives, the portuguese colonists and the black slaves. When slavery ended in the XIX century, the 4th element was added to the formation of the Brazilian people: the immigrant, being the italians, germans, japanese, spanish and polish the most proeminet groups. There were others, of course.

I hope I have helped to partialy answer your questions. :)

[JJ Mindset]

So basically it's similar to the Brits in the U.S., in which they have different cultural attitudes from that of the main population, even though they speak the same language. Interesting.

And thanks for reminding me about the other immigration into Brazil. Not a lot of people here know about that aspect of Brazilian life and people, let alone understanding the nuances of Portuguese migration into the country.

I am curious as to what the Brazilian attitude is toward their former colonizer and what the Portuguese attitude is towards their former colony.

[MIGkiller]

Originally posted by JJ Mindset

I am curious as to what the Brazilian attitude is toward their former colonizer and what the Portuguese attitude is towards their former colony.

There's no ressentment, if that's what you wanna know. More of a respectfull attitude towards the heritage they've left, specially in culture, literature and food.

About the Portuguese attitude, I guess you can't find more Brazilophiles in the world. Our most loyal bandwagon fans. :D

[trmbrasil]

Originally posted by MIGkiller
There's no ressentment, if that's what you wanna know. More of a respectfull attitude towards the heritage they've left, specially in culture, literature and food.



There's that, but there also might be one or two Portuguese jokes floating around out there ;)

Watching simplesmente amor (whatever it is in English with Hugh Grant, Emma Thompson, Rowan Atkinson, etc...) at the cinema in Salvador, seemed to cull quite a bit of Portuguese jokes from the galera. Most of it was pretty harmless, like the "oh isn't their accent so funny" variety.

Of course, here in the colonial capital there are a few other things said about the Portuguese ineptitude as a colonial power, the natural progression from the captaincies to the coronel system, and poor planning and infrastructure development of the colonial cities. Some of it is just frustration with Bahia's current economic struggles and people wanting to spread the blame. Others actually believe they would have been better off if the Dutch had successfully overtaken the Portuguese interests here.

[JJ Mindset]

I have read about how the Portuguese were poor administrators but don't know how this would relate to how the Brazilian cities became what they are right now. Would it have anything to do with how the shantytowns, or favelas, sprang up in the big cities or do other factors play in more?

[Lono]

heres another one: the english spoken in america is to the english spoken in england what the portuguese spoken in brazil is to the portuguese spoken in portugal

[trmbrasil]

Originally posted by JJ Mindset
I have read about how the Portuguese were poor administrators but don't know how this would relate to how the Brazilian cities became what they are right now. Would it have anything to do with how the shantytowns, or favelas, sprang up in the big cities or do other factors play in more?

I should really be writing grad school applications right now, but BigSoccer is a good distraction, and this is a mildly "academic" topic. JJ there is nothing simple about the explanations for favelas and the growth of Brazilian cities. It would be too easy and narrow-minded to look at the Portuguese colonial administration alone.

I don't want to offend anyone by overlooking important details of Brazilian history, because I'm still learning much myself. Here is a summary of some basic info about the Portuguese here and how their systems have influenced modern Brazil. Think rurally for a moment and remember that Brazil is huge.

My earlier post referred to the captaincy system, where Portugal granted large sections of Brazil to captains. These were often merchants and people of influence in Portugal who were supposed to administer their section of Brazil. Of course, Portugal was tiny and they couldn't always find captains with the capacity to do this effectively. For example, the man who was captain of the Northeast of Brazil (with a home in Praia do Forte) was a 12 cow farmer in Portugal. He was hardly a skilled land baron. One of the complaints of this system is that there wasn't much incentive to invest in the land or proper development. There was such an abundance of resources it was just easier to take (hey, what colony didn't experience this in some way?).

What happened was that a rather feudal system evolved. Small groups of men owned massive amounts of land. This evolved over time from the captaincies to the coronel system (the name that was used to refer to the lords of the land, literally colonel). People worked the land for next to nothing, and had almost no ownership of property or crops. Today there are still strong remants of this system in the interior and tens of thousands of displaced people. The MST (movement of people without land) movement is very powerful now, where rural workers are setting up encampments and demanding land of their own. The MST subject alone can't be covered in my basic post.

The cities such as Rio, Sao Paulo and Salvador are a little more complicated. With regards to agrarian policies, however, in times of drought or fields losing the potency workers migrated to the cities. This created a large influx of unemployed and uneducated workers into the city populations. Many of the social problems in the cities have arisen from overcrowding, underemployment, and lack of infrastructure to accomodate the growth. Brazil faces many social challenges and is working to overcome them. Much of what has happened here since Brazil became sovereign cannot be attributed to once source alone.

Back to your original question: Brazil became indepent from Portugal in a bloodless fashion, and ties have remained strong over the years.

I'm no expert, just trying to summarize what I've learned, and am interested to think about Brazil in comparison with the colonial development of my own country.