The New Glazer Thread

[Motterman]

So...

Most of you remember where I stood for years on the Glazer situation. I was against the leveraged buyout and debt load that has been placed over the club.

Obviously, success on the pitch has been massive the past few seasons and whether it's thanks to having Glazer in charge rather than the PLC has helped land some big names and keep some of our top players... don't know.

So, my question is: How confident are you guys that we have nothing to fear moving forward?

[Vermont Red]

I never feel good about this anymore. That being said, banks are going to have liquidity. Whether or not lending to a company who's only asset is Manchester United Football Club is a good credit risk or not, I can't say. However, I suspect that the Glazers won't have any easy time re-financing if that's what they plan.

[J'can]

Few comments.

Can you amend the answers to seprate Not sure and Dont care. I amy be not sure but that does not mean I dont care.

Has anyone heard what will happen to the AIG sponsorship money? I am not sure when the payments are due and I do not think AIG has missed a payment but recent developments may put that in jeopardy.

We may already be seeing the effects as Tevez may not be bought. And we are thus seing this reflected in first team opportunities.


If that does happen and payments are in jeopardy then sucess on the pitch will be crucial. We will need all the prize monies and appearance monies we can get our hands on. That way we can do cash and carry type deals (in principle at least) where we fund the investments (transfers in) we make with what we earned as a result of winning the CL for instance and players we offload

So essentially the players are playing now for hte immediate short term structure of the club. And given our current form on the pitch and extrapolated over the season, then yes I am worried.

[Achtung]

So, my question is: How confident are you guys that we have nothing to fear moving forward?

Not very confident, to be honest. But at the same time, I think that's true for almost any club at this point in time. With rare exceptions, most clubs have a certain amount of debt and may in theory see their revenues shrink in a recession. How big the effect will be depends on largely on how long the economic situation lasts.

I have to admit that I cringe a little at the thought of multiple signings in the £15-30m (or more) range. Given the contemptuous nature of the takeover and the questionable sources of funding, there is a legitimate worry that it's all been built on a massive house of cards. It's been difficult to have a "head in the sand" approach, which is what I need in order to enjoy the club these days (maybe I should ask the advice of the Big Three CEOs).

That said, overall I can't argue with the product on the field. From that standpoint, the past few seasons have been right there with the best in club history. Even if it has been tainted by some of the stuff going on behind closed doors.

[Achtung]

For what it's worth...

Credit ratings reveal Hull City scores just 1 out of 100, while Chelsea is only rated 10 out of 100.

In a review of credit ratings for the Premiership, conducted using the Equifax ScoreCheck service, half the clubs were listed as insolvent.

The lower the score, the more likely a business is predicted to default on payments.

Aston Villa, Fulham and Wigan Athletic scored two points, also leaving them vulnerable.

And, surprisingly, Chelsea, which is backed by Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich, scored just 10 points. Without the Russian’s bankroll, Chelsea would struggle for funds, needing to find £120,000 a week to pay players alone.

In contrast, Arsenal hit the top of Equifax’s credit rating table with 98 points, putting it just ahead of Manchester United on 95 points.

http://www.dofonline.co.uk/strategic-finance/equifax-half-of-premiership-clubs-insolvent-010906.html

There's a fuzzy graphic on that page which lists all 20 PL clubs. No idea how reliable it really is, listing the likes of Tottenham and West Ham(!) as relatively safe. Equifax is one of the major credit rating agencies, however.

[sdotsom]

I'm afraid, tbh. "House of cards" comes to mind quickly. I thought refinancing was gonna be a cornerstone of the Glazers' plan, and that's pretty impossible these days. And to see us constantly spend money, i.e. 17 mill on Tosic/Ljajic, 30 on Berbatov, possibly 22 out of the coffers on Tevez...it's kind of scary.

I think our thinking is that if we continue to spend, we'll succeed, and the revenue from deep CL runs, PL titles, and the ensuing merchandise will pay back the expenditure AND service the debt. At the same time, I'd like to think that our big name spending may hopefully be toning down soon.

To sum it up - yeah, I'm f(&)in worried.

[Drae]

The thing here is that it is not really the "credit crunch" anymore, (predictably) the problem has now spread to the wider global economy and an "economic crisis".

Because the (US) Fed has been so aggressive with interest rates, this means that interest rates are now very low. As the loans are probably not fixed interest (particularly the short term, high interest 150M one), if anything, our debt is now more serviceable.

With a global recession, income growth will probably slow a bit, which will mean we will spend less on transfers. Apart from city, many other clubs wont be spending anyway.

As for refinancing, that is still going to be hard in the near future, but credit conditions will ease eventually. The main thing is to start to pay down the debt levels in the holding company.

As discussed before, the credit crunch does mean that if income starts to drop significantly, and the debt levels increase, it could be cataclysmic. If the debt needs to be refinanced in a hurry, it wont be able to be. And finding a buyer will be very difficult, as the new buyer will struggle to borrow to buy the club. With the limited info we have, it doenst look like that is likely to happen currently.

So I would vote that we are not safe from the credit crunch, and remain concerned, but there is no need to panic. Just yet.

[SyedZada]

Definitely worried, specially with all the spending we are doing though we may be spending for a long term, meaning almost no to minimal spending in 4-5 years if the financial climate dont improve.
Except for gk position we are set in midfield,attack(With or without Tevez, though attack would need improving but it wont be a disaster),defense, a gk is all we need in the next 2-3 years, if none of our no2s step up.
I think its going to stay that way, except for youngsters we will bring in for relative small fees, or somebody special who we will think will serve us for years.

Also with all the spending we did we also sold alot of players, and we have spent in total as much.

[MANUTDGAL]

No one is safe from the credit crunch!!!!!

[johno]

Doom, disaster etc.


I didn't approve of the takeover in the first place, but since it has happened I've been in the wait and see camp. Well, a couple years later a couple league titles later and a CL title later with hopefully more on the way and I can say I'm comfortable. Our biggest asset is our brand and the brand is much stronger now than it was 3 years ago.

[Numquam Moribimur]

As long as we keep win trophies on a somewhat regular basis, the majority of people are not going to give a ******** about the glazer’s loans and whatnot. It’s the sad truth, Am I still worried ? yes and we’ll contunie to worry until they are gone.

[cr7torossi]

^^ they are not going anywhere unless we are bought over by someone like RA or ADUG. I don't think I would prefer that.

[doubletrouble]

Never liked the idea of them buying the club because they're American and i jus saw it as a money making deal. i would rather see a lifetime supporter purchase the club who's from Manchester. America and football don't mix jus like oil and water... F**k The Glazers!

[Achtung]

Never liked the idea of them buying the club because they're American and i jus saw it as a money making deal. i would rather see a lifetime supporter purchase the club who's from Manchester. America and football don't mix jus like oil and water... F**k The Glazers!

That's the kind of opinion that masks legitimate concerns about the financial methods used for the takeover. When you turn it into some "Yanks know f**k all about football" thing, you harm the credibility of anyone who questions the buyout for other reasons.

[doubletrouble]

That's the kind of opinion that masks legitimate concerns about the financial methods used for the takeover. When you turn it into some "Yanks know f**k all about football" thing, you harm the credibility of anyone who questions the buyout for other reasons.


I understand you feel bad coz you're from Chicago but i don't need credibility from nobody but myself

[sdotsom]

Yeah, you're an OG.

Jeezus :rolleyes:

[da_capo]

I understand you feel bad coz you're from Chicago but i don't need credibility from nobody but myself

wow. just...wow

[holytoledo]

Holy shit.

St. Kitts represent.

[doubletrouble]

You ppl get offended on here far too easy :rolleyes:

[holytoledo]

Does this count as one of those laughing at you, not with you, situations?