Is there room for another cup competition?

[frasermc]

i sent this to a couple of long standing members of the rocks FF leagues to gather their opinions on it and now i'm putting it out for general consumption. so please, feel free to honestly tell me how you feel about it.


I'm trying to come up with an idea for a new cup competition as I enjoy playing those as much as the leagues themselves.

So here goes with a fairly rough pitch -

Old Style European Cups Competition

A straight knockout with the 32 teams. They play each other home and away with away goals counting double and the 16 winners progress into the next round and so on until the final. This would take 10 gameweeks to complete. The winner is the first finalist.

We then do the same again and the second winner is the other finalist. In the unlikely event that the same team wins both then they're immediately declared champion and no final is required. (boo hiss)

Scoring for matches would be like this,

The home team gets a goal for every assist and every goal scored by a team member. Captains points count double.

The away team gets a goal for every clean sheet kept by a GK, DF or CM. Again, captains points count double.

Teams would play home and away legs and the winner progresses to the next round. Away goals count double, just as they do now in European knockout.

Tie breakers to decide a draw would be -

1) Captains double points nullified from both legs.
2) Substitutes not taken into account from both legs.
3) Overall team league scores from both games to decide the winner.


When the two winners of tournaments A and B have been decided the team with the highest +goals total for their winning campaign will have the choice to be either the home team or the away team in a one off final match to decide the overall champion.

Tiebreakers in this game will be decided as similar to the above.

All in all the tournament would take either 20 or, more than likely, 21 games to complete.

I've toyed with the idea of seeding in the first or first couple of rounds but I think I'd prefer a random element to the draws.

So, whaddya think?

Cheers

Fraser

[tarvinodos]

I am definately in!! I think all of the Cups brough by the Rocks League have been great. The rounds of 32 home and away work great like the Champions League to have a slow phase (you stick around for a while) and a fast phase (the next you know you are out like me vs. Aviators in the Olympics this week).

[Hal]

I want to applaud and encourage inventors of cup competitions.

My only concern is the emphasis on the away goal rule. In fantasy soccer the home vs away goal doesn't make much sense to me. Otherwise, nice job.

[frasermc]

My only concern is the emphasis on the away goal rule. In fantasy soccer the home vs away goal doesn't make much sense to me. Otherwise, nice job.

fair point. i wanted to try and mimic the old style European Cup straight knockout competition. i also thought it was a little different to have the onus for the second leg put slightly onto the team looking for clean sheets.

i love participating in all the cup competitions and Clans Golden Boot obviously focuses on scoring goals and getting assists. i thought it would be a nice twist to focus a little more at the other end of the pitch.

[Clan]

An interesting idea.

Let it roll and see how it plays out.

[lobomojo]

An interesting idea.

Let it roll and see how it plays out.

:cool: and as he said

Frasermc is the away scoring based on the actual away matchs or fantasy away?

[blech]

:cool: and as he said

Frasermc is the away scoring based on the actual away matchs or fantasy away?

i'm assuming fantasy away, as actual home and away would be very time consuming to track as it doesn't show up on the weekly break-down. if that's the case, one week you count my goals and the next week you count my shutouts (any my opponent does the opposite)? i like the head-to-head home-away elimination set up. not trying to interfere with creativity, but i wonder if it may not be making it too complicated or cute (and downright random) to have goals count one week and defense the next. of course, i'm in no matter what but would throw out the suggestion of going with one or the other.

also, when you say "CM" is that all midfielders or is it limited to special ones (and if so how are they determined)?

[frasermc]

i'm assuming fantasy away, as actual home and away would be very time consuming to track as it doesn't show up on the weekly break-down. if that's the case, one week you count my goals and the next week you count my shutouts (any my opponent does the opposite)?

spot on. it's fantasy away. so lets say next week i was drawn against Blech in the first round and i was home for the first leg -

frasermc v blech - 1st leg

i would be looking for goals and assists for the first leg during that EPL weekend and blech would be after clean sheets.

blech v frasermc - 2nd leg

the next EPL weekend blech is concentrating on goals and assists while i'm on the lookout for clean sheets.


i like the head-to-head home-away elimination set up. not trying to interfere with creativity, but i wonder if it may not be making it too complicated or cute (and downright random) to have goals count one week and defense the next. of course, i'm in no matter what but would throw out the suggestion of going with one or the other.


sorry, but i'm not following you entirely. i went for this idea basing it on the premise that the majority of time the home team would look to attack(attacking points) and the away team would be looking to defend(defending points). i thought this would be a decent idea and a way of concentrating more on the defensive side of FF and the points it provides.

although i'm more than willing to listen to other ideas.


also, when you say "CM" is that all midfielders or is it limited to special ones (and if so how are they determined)?

my apologies. that would be all midfielders in your team.

[blech]

***

sorry, but i'm not following you entirely. i went for this idea basing it on the premise that the majority of time the home team would look to attack(attacking points) and the away team would be looking to defend(defending points). i thought this would be a decent idea and a way of concentrating more on the defensive side of FF and the points it provides.

although i'm more than willing to listen to other ideas.

***

please don't take my comment the wrong way. i think i understand your concept, but it seems odd to me that the home team gets nothing for clean sheets and the away team gets nothing for away goals, and it's all fairly random given that the actual players will be home while the fantasy team is away and visa versa but that's the nature of the fantasy beast. the suggestion to give it a go probably makes some sense - maybe even run a single round this season, before rolling out to the double round and championship game next year. (a test drive will also give you a chance to see how easy or difficult hand scoring it will be!!!).

[frasermc]

please don't take my comment the wrong way. i think i understand your concept, but it seems odd to me that the home team gets nothing for clean sheets and the away team gets nothing for away goals, and it's all fairly random given that the actual players will be home while the fantasy team is away and visa versa but that's the nature of the fantasy beast. the suggestion to give it a go probably makes some sense - maybe even run a single round this season, before rolling out to the double round and championship game next year. (a test drive will also give you a chance to see how easy or difficult hand scoring it will be!!!).

my apologies. constructive criticism/debate is all good.

i agree with what you're saying. my original idea was in trying to base an attack(home) against a defense(away) but i agree it is fairly random. i'd like to think i'm quite good with stats but if i tried to tie in actual home and away performances for each player for each FF team then i might be taking on a tad too much.

i think i'll do a mock draw and post it for next weeks games and run it over a home and away leg to see how it pans out.

thanks for the input. :)

[kopiteinkc]

I am all for more cups -- maybe cos my league performance is dire and I need a distraction.

[frasermc]

i've done a mock draw for the first round and i'll use this weeks scores and next weeks just to see how it pans out and what needs ditched and what can be kept

Mock Draw - 1st Rd - 1st Leg - Old Style European Cup Competition.


Bettermirror MCFD - Aviators
Crazies - blech_dawgs
Duck Butter Bandits - LSG Royston Vasey
ColdDogSoup FC - 1800-UK.com
Yellowcake Phantoms - Deco's Diving Divas
VCC - VegasVirgins
Zola School FC - Kopite Juniors
FC Springfield - Rockville Gunners
Sasha Juniors - Rat Face Villains FC
Pork Soda - Raytown Rangers
In off the post - Galway Rovers
Old Peculiar - Welsh Dragonsox
Tally Road AFC - Ladanday Rovers
Southside Saturns - The Class Acts
AC Milano - ThisisAnfield FC
Windsor Wanderers - ChrisSuttonsSlippers

[frasermc]

Mock Draw - 1st Rd - 1st Leg - Old Style European Cup Competition.


Bettermirror MCFD 5-2 Aviators
Crazies 3-2 blech_dawgs
Duck Butter Bandits 4-3 LSG Royston Vasey
ColdDogSoup FC 3-3 1800-UK.com
Yellowcake Phantoms 2-1 Deco's Diving Divas
VCC 4-1 VegasVirgins
Zola School FC 4-5 Kopite Juniors
FC Springfield 6-4 Rockville Gunners
Sasha Juniors 3-4 Rat Face Villains FC
Pork Soda 2-1 Raytown Rangers
In off the post 3-3 Galway Rovers
Old Peculiar 3-2 Welsh Dragonsox
Tally Road AFC 2-4 Ladanday Rovers
Southside Saturns 5-2 The Class Acts
AC Milano 1-1 ThisisAnfield FC
Windsor Wanderers 0-2 ChrisSuttonsSlippers


9 home wins
3 draws
4 away wins

i was expecting a more even split of home and away wins. it'll be interesting to see how it pans out next week.

[Clan]

I had a draw...so I'm on the fence about this one :D :D :D

[frasermc]

I had a draw...so I'm on the fence about this one :D :D :D

would have left you with it all to do in the second leg.

[blech]

would have left you with it all to do in the second leg.

so, my 8 goals and assists count for nothing since I'm "away" this week? i'm not sure if I hate this or find it brilliant. i guess i'll wait for the second leg before forming any further opinion. :)

[frasermc]

so, my 8 goals and assists count for nothing since I'm "away" this week? i'm not sure if I hate this or find it brilliant. i guess i'll wait for the second leg before forming any further opinion. :)

:)

before i suggested it i had a look at some random teams and how they would have scored on it a few weeks ago and it seemed to lean towards the away team(defensive points). yet this week it's more towards the home side.

i'll see how it goes next week and open it up to the floor for suggestions that may aid or improve it.

[kopiteinkc]

It's an interesting concept and worth a try IMO. I am not just saying this cos I won 5-4 away, honest! :)

[frasermc]

i'm not sure if I hate this or find it brilliant.

once you see the result it's safe to say it'll be the former.

[frasermc]

Mock Draw - 1st Rd - 2nd Leg - Old Style European Cup Competition.


Aviators 2-6 Bettermirror MCFD (agg: 4-11)
blech_dawgs 6-5 Crazies (agg: 8-8, Crazies go through on away goals)
LSG Royston Vasey 2-3 Duck Butter Bandits (agg: 5-7)
1800-UK.com 6-3 ColdDogSoup FC (agg: 9-6)
Deco's Diving Divas 1-0 Yellowcake Phantoms (agg: 2-2, Deco's Diving Divas advance on away goals)
VegasVirgins 7-1 VCC (agg: 8-5)
Kopite Juniors 1-6 Zola School FC (agg: 6-10)
Rockville Gunners 5-1 FC Springfield (agg: 9-7)
Rat Face Villains FC 3-3 Sasha Juniors (agg: 7-6)
Raytown Rangers 6-4 Pork Soda (agg: 7-6)
Galway Rovers 3-3 In off the post (agg: 6-6, In off the post progresses on first tie breaker)
Welsh Dragonsox 4-4 Old Peculiar (agg: 6-7)
Ladanday Rovers 2-2 Tally Road AFC (agg: 6-4)
The Class Acts 2-5 Southside Saturns (agg: 4-10)
ThisisAnfield FC 5-3 AC Milano (agg: 6-4)
ChrisSuttonsSlippers 1-2 Windsor Wanderers (agg: 3-2)


and so that concludes the mock 1st round. home teams held the slight advantage in both rounds. most of the matches ended up being pretty close.