Rennes vs. PSG [R]

[Carefree 95]

Sigh. Let the post-mortem begin.


I was actually at this match and was not impressed with what I saw. Hoarau may as well have not been on the pitch and the same goes for Guily. Le Guen's tactics were extremly suspect and his substitutions towards the end of the match stank of desperation, we finished playing 4-2-4 with Luyindula on the left-wing and pancrate on the right with Rothen playing centre midfield??? Although some players didn't perform, it was Le Guen's tactics that lost us the game. This team's better than a 7/8th space finish which is where we are heading. I'd like to see Le Guen replaced by someone new at the end of the season.

[Fonsos]

Sigh. Let the post-mortem begin.


I was actually at this match and was not impressed with what I saw. Hoarau may as well have not been on the pitch and the same goes for Guily. Le Guen's tactics were extremly suspect and his substitutions towards the end of the match stank of desperation, we finished playing 4-2-4 with Luyindula on the left-wing and pancrate on the right with Rothen playing centre midfield??? Although some players didn't perform, it was Le Guen's tactics that lost us the game. This team's better than a 7/8th space finish which is where we are heading. I'd like to see Le Guen replaced by someone new at the end of the season.

I watched on TV and I think you need you to watch this match on TV. I thought it was a good match despite the final result, unfortunately we didn't win. Hoarau was ok at best and I thought Giuly was ok, however not as bad as you think. Tactics didn't lose this match for us. Good goalkeeping from Renne's keeper played a large part in us not winning and a team that executed very well in getting in front of the ball when we attacked also had alot to do with it. Subs could have come on earlier but otherwise we just didn't have it yesterday. Keep in mind that Renne's strikers didn't look very good and if I'm a Rennes supporter, I'm more worried about the lack of striking options than anything else. If Briand gets hurt, who else do they have that the Moustache would play in his place? You can only play that type of defense for so long in a season before it catches up with you.

PSG will be alright and from what I saw yesterday, I like our chances of getting into Champion's League next season.

A+,
Alfonso

[Carefree 95]

Not to belittle your opinion but you always get a better feel for a match tactically if you are actually in attendance as you can see the shape of the team over the whole field, where as on television you are given a very narrow view of the play, usually only where the ball is being played.

I appreciate how it could have seemed that PSG were the dominant, and possibly better, team on television however looking pass the superficial there was very little to be positive about. I've seen the highlights on television and we did have some chances but they were mainly speculative shots (Rothen and Sessegnon spring to mind), however I can think of only one opportunity were we cut the defence open and were unlucky not to score (Kezman's chance). Considering we were the dominant team in the second half and had the majority of possession it's a poor return, now this is where I blame the tactics. Creating chances was something we struggled with last season and was because we had no creative, attack-minded central midfielder. We would play with two holding midfielders, two wingers and two forwards and there was a large gap left in the centre of the pitch because the holding midfielders dropped deep and the forwards pushed forward. There was no-one to link the play, thus we didnt create many opportunities.

In the summer we signed Sessegnon to solve that problem and for the early part of the season he was playing great, we were creating chances and scoring goals. However Le Guen has now decided to play Guily up front with Hoarau, which in my opinion is where the problem lies. As Guily has moved to play as a striker (and yesterday he played just as advanced as Hoarau, not dropping into midfield), Sessegnon has been forced to play on the right (where he is not as effective as in the middle and doesn't influence the play as much) thus leaving the advance part of our midfield, where he would play if Guily was on the right, completly empty as Makelele and Clement are holding midfielders and don't come forward to fill the space and influence attacks. The lack of an attacking central midfield means we struggle to pull defenders out of position as there is no threat of a shot or a run from midfield, and we struggle to play balls in behind defences for our strikers to run on to. There is no-one to link the play from the ball-winning defensive midfield to the forwards. Therefore we struggle to create chances and score goals. Most of the best sides in Europe have someone playing in this position; Kaka, Lampard, Scholes, Nasri, Van der Vaart yet we have a player to play there but we put him on the right-wing and abandon this area.

This is why I believe tactics cost us the match. This is I believe why Le Guen should be replaced.

Yes we were the dominant team yesterday, but being the dominant team and losing is the sign of something wrong.

[SportBoy333]

Guily as striker is just really really dumb and its not even necessary when they already have Kezman, Pancrate and Luyindula.

[Fonsos]

Not to belittle your opinion but you always get a better feel for a match tactically if you are actually in attendance as you can see the shape of the team over the whole field, where as on television you are given a very narrow view of the play, usually only where the ball is being played.

I don't think you're belittling my opinion at all. I actually feel the same way about attending a match in person versus watching on TV. I usually try to watch parts of matches I've attended on later on TV to get a better different view point of certain parts the match. Best part about being in actual attendance is that you truly get a chance to see more of the action off the ball~ well at least that's one the many things I'm looking for when attending an actual match.


I appreciate how it could have seemed that PSG were the dominant, and possibly better, team on television however looking pass the superficial there was very little to be positive about. I've seen the highlights on television and we did have some chances but they were mainly speculative shots (Rothen and Sessegnon spring to mind), however I can think of only one opportunity were we cut the defence open and were unlucky not to score (Kezman's chance). Considering we were the dominant team in the second half and had the majority of possession it's a poor return, now this is where I blame the tactics. Creating chances was something we struggled with last season and was because we had no creative, attack-minded central midfielder. We would play with two holding midfielders, two wingers and two forwards and there was a large gap left in the centre of the pitch because the holding midfielders dropped deep and the forwards pushed forward. There was no-one to link the play, thus we didnt create many opportunities.

In the summer we signed Sessegnon to solve that problem and for the early part of the season he was playing great, we were creating chances and scoring goals. However Le Guen has now decided to play Guily up front with Hoarau, which in my opinion is where the problem lies. As Guily has moved to play as a striker (and yesterday he played just as advanced as Hoarau, not dropping into midfield), Sessegnon has been forced to play on the right (where he is not as effective as in the middle and doesn't influence the play as much) thus leaving the advance part of our midfield, where he would play if Guily was on the right, completly empty as Makelele and Clement are holding midfielders and don't come forward to fill the space and influence attacks. The lack of an attacking central midfield means we struggle to pull defenders out of position as there is no threat of a shot or a run from midfield, and we struggle to play balls in behind defences for our strikers to run on to. There is no-one to link the play from the ball-winning defensive midfield to the forwards. Therefore we struggle to create chances and score goals. Most of the best sides in Europe have someone playing in this position; Kaka, Lampard, Scholes, Nasri, Van der Vaart yet we have a player to play there but we put him on the right-wing and abandon this area.

Good points and I'm also trying to figure out why Giuly didn't play on the wing as he did in the first two matches which as we all saw helped create alot of opportunities for the forwards. Maybe LeGuen had a brain fart the past couple of matches. Maybe Giuly is carrying an injury that's not being publicized. The moments during this match when he ran on the wings, he definitely caused problems for Renne's defense. The best sides you're using as examples are incomparable to PSG. They have much more talent to compensate for their weaknesses in tactics. Kaka plays with Ronaldinho and Seedorf, Van Nistelrooy has Raul, and I can go on and on.


This is why I believe tactics cost us the match. This is I believe why Le Guen should be replaced.

Yes we were the dominant team yesterday, but being the dominant team and losing is the sign of something wrong.

I think the biggest issue with the current form has to do with LeGuen's reliance of the rotation system. I like it since there are many games in the season and with PSG having limited resources, it makes sense to employ such a system, HOWEVER we're nearing a stage of the season where players are starting to get their first peak of the season and only a few weeks away from the winter break, so this might be the time to abandon the system 'til next year. Despite the cold weather, I think we'll be alright from an injury perspective.

Hey!!! Did you see Samuel Eto'O at the match? He was in the stands and probably just on hand to watch a few friends play.

A+,
Fonsos

[Carefree 95]

I think the biggest issue with the current form has to do with LeGuen's reliance of the rotation system. I like it since there are many games in the season and with PSG having limited resources, it makes sense to employ such a system, HOWEVER we're nearing a stage of the season where players are starting to get their first peak of the season and only a few weeks away from the winter break, so this might be the time to abandon the system 'til next year. Despite the cold weather, I think we'll be alright from an injury perspective.

Hey!!! Did you see Samuel Eto'O at the match? He was in the stands and probably just on hand to watch a few friends play.

A+,
Fonsos

I think the problem with Le Guen's rotation policy is that I get the feeling that no matter how well the reserve players play, they wont be given a chance in the first team. Kezman is the best example, Hoarau stunk at Rennes (l'equipe only gave him a 3) and Kezman played really well when he came on but I doubt he'll drop Hoarau for Kezman in the next Ligue 1 match. I should note that I've actually read a book about Le Guen and his time at Rangers and therefore am reading into things based on what I've read about him. The key issues that came up in the book was that Le Guen didn't like certain players and no matter how well the played he would not give them a regular starting place (Kris Boyd was the main victim) and also he is very stubborn with his tactics and tried to get his players to play to his formation rather than design a formation to best suit his players (which is why he fell out with Barry Ferguson, leading to Le Guen's departue). The thing that worries me is that I am seeing the same things happen at PSG with the Kezman situation, in terms of class he is our best player along with Guily, and with Sessegnon being played from the right. Le Guen's track record is why im worried really.


And no, unfortunately I didn't see Eto'o! He was sitting on the opposite side to me I think, just saw him on the news after the match. First Selma Hayek and now Eto'o, Rennes are becoming a bit of a celebrity club!

[Carefree 95]

This is the book if you ever want to read it. (http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Guen-Chronicle-Turmoil-Rangers/dp/1845962915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228239979&sr=8-1) I throughly enjoyed it, gave me a new perspective on PLG

[Fonsos]

This is the book if you ever want to read it. (http://www.amazon.com/Paul-Guen-Chronicle-Turmoil-Rangers/dp/1845962915/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228239979&sr=8-1) I throughly enjoyed it, gave me a new perspective on PLG

I might have to check it out. I'm still hooked on the fact that LeGuen was with Lyon when they started to take off, so I tend to be a bit more patient with him seeing the end results of the work done there plus he seems to have won over this current crop of players compared to last year.

A+,
Fonsos

[Gotham PSG]

wtf?
PLG might not have done the best job possible, but there is nobody right no better to replace him.

And don't you dare say Deschamps or Luis.


I don't think he is to blame for the defeat. We weren't very good, but I blame it on our strikers, and on Douchez, who was imperial. In fact, Landreau was incredible as well, if it wasn't for that tiny bit of luck that Rennes had to score their crappy goal. Which is a sign of our problem: we are our own worst enemy, many of the goals scored against us have been due to our own faults, be it own-goals, or having no luck, or making a mess of a situation. At least, it isn't as bad as last year, and we are among the best defenses.

But then, there is another part into this defeat. Don't forget who we played against. Rennes are not the flashiest of teams, but they are the only other team beside us to have beaten Lyon, they have only one loss this season, the best defense so far, and have not lost a match in 14 games. Moreover, they gave up on the UEFA cup long ago, and have not had to lose their legs into useless games like we do.
Yes we deserved better than the loss, but it is not a defeat to be ashamed of (like against Toulouse or Grenoble or Nice, now those defeats sucked big time, crappy teams scoring on their only possibility).

I do have to say, Rennes does not make for a very good dauphin (neither is Nice or Toulouse, and I don't want OM there, so only Bordeaux, even if Blanc is an ass). But when you think about it, had we won, we would be in their place, and I have to say, we aren't worthy of being the "best of the rest" right now. But it does make me optismistic about our shots, if we play our cards right, and if we get the right players in the winter break, some worthy subs for Rothen and Ceara, we should be good to go.


tomorrow we play in Manchester against City. It will be awesome because from the look of things, Le Guen wants to play Ngoyi and Mabiala, lol, it should be quite fun.
But who knows, Manchester City honestly are not scary, and they aren't tactical masterminds. I bet our reserves can pull a score there.

Not that I would care if we lose. Quite honestly, the only thing I want out of this UEFA cup is to play Milan at the Parc. It didn't happen. I don't want our limited team to lose forces in that worthless cup. It brings no money, and no recognition. Seriously. Marseille were in the final 4 years ago. Middlesbrough did too under McLaren. Rangers last season went all the way to the final. Last I remember, they are nowhere on the radar this season. Even if you do win it, as nice as that is, it is useless if you do not do your job in the championship.
I personally would rather lose right now and finish 4th of the L1, than to finish 7th, but having had a memorable cup run, that would prove to have been detrimental.

We must not forget where we are coming from, and that our squad is very limited, and unable to play the L1, the uefa cup, the coupe de la ligue, and the coupe de france.


anyway, my point is, In Le Guen I Trust!

Oh, and to whoever said he could not understand why Paulo is being so stubborn...
don't forget he is after all a Breton :D

[Carefree 95]

Bring back Luis!! :D

[Fonsos]

Bring back Luis!! :D

So not funny!!!
I shook uncontroablly for a few seconds at the sheer thought

:rolleyes:

Fonsos