Will Denilson be good enough?

[Arsenal_pwns_all]

What do you guys think of him so far? Personally I think having him as a starter is one of the reasons why we have been so **** this season. Even last night it's almost as if we were playing with 10 man on the field. He seems to be too lightweight, not creative enough, not good enough defensively. He seems like a poor man's Cesc. So I am not sure what future he has with us, it's true that he is only 19 years old and has a lot of chance to improve, but I just can't see the talent in him to do so.

[juanca]

This season, with the departure of Flamini, AW did admit that Arsenal had to change and adapt, that we had to do things differently on the pitch. That we must attack and defend as a unit, rather than rely on that one "bulldog" to do all the cleaning up all over the pitch, a la Flamster.

Denilson has been one of our most solid players this season, the stats the many people here have posted on other threads, Proves that. Based on yesterdays game, isnt much to go by ,Denilson is not a RW. simple as that.

As far as talent goes, hes got plenty of it, and he will come good. But, he just got his chance much earlier than he expected it, thats all, hes not ready this year, but we have no other options. so its baptism by fire really:cool:

[gooner4eva]

weren't we having this same conversation about song a few seasons back, look how he turned out.

[Silva 5]

Will Denilson become the midfielder we need to compliment Cesc in the middle, win tackles regularly and break up the opposition's play before it developes...I don't know, but what I do know is that he's a talented young man, he keeps his head down and works as hard as anyone for 90 minutes.

At the moment is he starting quality in a 4-4-2 with Cesc? I don't think so. Is he starting quality in a 4-5-1, assuming we have a Flamini type midfielder sitting deep? Yes.

If Wenger ever did decide to purchase someone like Flamini, a true ball winner, I would love for Denilson to stay anyway because he offers great depth in reserve for Cesc, or like I already said, if we decide to play a 4-5-1, he can jump right in and be productive.

Either way he has a future with us.

[daedalus]

in games where he has partnered fabregas in the middle, he has looked good. he defers to fabregas and just ranges back and forth being a miniature 'invisible wall' like his predecessor, gilberto silva, and links the back to fabregas.

recently, with walcott's and eboue's injuries, he has been playing out wide right and, well, he just is not a wide midfielder. he looks as good out wide as gilberto silva did.

i used to think that he could be a backup to fabregas as the string-puller but he is just either not ready or he lacks the ability to do so. in games where he has partnered any other midfielder in the middle, he has looked absolutely dreadful. he does not seem to trust himself and neither does the the team. it is hard to tell, though, if he can grow into the role or if it is just not the one for him.

[DaPrince84]

*remembers this question being asked of Flamini a couple of seasons ago*

[Yojimbo]

Denilson will be a good player in a few years but right now he has no business starting for Arsenal. Against both Chelsea and to a lesser extent Dinamo he was f*cking awful, part of the blame can be placed on Wenger for playing him on the wing in both those games when he is clearly not a winger. Nevertheless, it was blatanly obvious against Chelsea that he is the glaring weak link in this side. I lost count of the amount of times he was outmuscled or gave the ball away, plus he should have had a goal but an awful first touch let him down. He did set up Van Persie's first 'goal' tho so at least he contributed something. He probably will be a very good player one day, but we can't afford to keep giving him starts this season, he isn't ready for 1st team football yet.

[dynamo_gunner]

Denilson will be a good player in a few years but right now he has no business starting for Arsenal. Against both Chelsea and to a lesser extent Dinamo he was f*cking awful, part of the blame can be placed on Wenger for playing him on the wing in both those games when he is clearly not a winger. Nevertheless, it was blatanly obvious against Chelsea that he is the glaring weak link in this side. I lost count of the amount of times he was outmuscled or gave the ball away, plus he should have had a goal but an awful first touch let him down. He did set up Van Persie's first 'goal' tho so at least he contributed something. He probably will be a very good player one day, but we can't afford to keep giving him starts this season, he isn't ready for 1st team football yet.

In Arsene's defense, every winger he has is on the injured list. Denilson is good enough to come off the bench, but he's not a starter. But hes still what, 19? We still depend too much on the young boys, and we need some solid depth to cover the wings.

[DaPrince84]

Denilson will be a good player in a few years but right now he has no business starting for Arsenal. Against both Chelsea and to a lesser extent Dinamo he was f*cking awful, part of the blame can be placed on Wenger for playing him on the wing in both those games when he is clearly not a winger. Nevertheless, it was blatanly obvious against Chelsea that he is the glaring weak link in this side. I lost count of the amount of times he was outmuscled or gave the ball away, plus he should have had a goal but an awful first touch let him down. He did set up Van Persie's first 'goal' tho so at least he contributed something. He probably will be a very good player one day, but we can't afford to keep giving him starts this season, he isn't ready for 1st team football yet.
let me ask you a question... what was the difference between his performance and Nasri's?

[surfcam]

weren't we having this same conversation about song a few seasons back, look how he turned out.

A mediocre utility player? I don't think Song is that great of a player. He does OK, but IMO that's it.

As for Denilson, he will probably grow into a great player but he isn't there right now. I know he was on the wing yesterday, but he hasn't looked great in the middle either. There have been some flashes of brilliance that show he can progress, but the overall level hasn't been outstanding. With time and maturity he'll be a good player but I don't think he's ready to be an automatic first XI.

[wanye_stirrear]

A: He starts for us right now.
B: Wenger sees something in him and keeps selecting him.

Answer: He already is good enough otherwise he wouldn't be playing. It is really that simple. I am under no illusion that he is putting in great performances week in and out, but he got his chance a little earlier than expected. This discussion reminds me of the thread about whether Adebayor was good enough in his first year or the one about whether Theo would 'realize' his potential when he was first blooded (he can't hold on to the ball!, he looks out of depth!, he offers nothing but pace!). Denilson is going through the same process as everyone else. Have some faith.

[4_Arsenal]

A mediocre utility player? I don't think Song is that great of a player. He does OK, but IMO that's it.

As for Denilson, he will probably grow into a great player but he isn't there right now. I know he was on the wing yesterday, but he hasn't looked great in the middle either. There have been some flashes of brilliance that show he can progress, but the overall level hasn't been outstanding. With time and maturity he'll be a good player but I don't think he's ready to be an automatic first XI.

Spot on! He is not quite ready in my opinion. He should be there to back up Cesc, not partner him. He's not strong enough on the ball, makes too many bad passes, and has a hard, but wild shot. Wenger should at least try some other players in the middle. Ramsey and Cesc were more creative in the middle last Wednesday in the CL. Think he will be a good player for us but still needs time. Shouldn't be starting.

[juanca]

I think some of you are forgetting about the whole Balance issue of the team.

Wenger knows he cant play 4 attacking midfielders at once, which is why he persisted so many times with eboue on the RW because he atleast offered support for sagna and linked up well with him.

To play nasri, cesc, ramsey, theo would result in little to nothing help for the defense. If we had 4 maldinis back there, then hey no problem, but we dont. The team must attack and defend as one Strong Unit.

Having song or denilson balanced out the team. For me, this is the reason Diaby isnt starting, because i dont see why Denilson gets chosen ahead of Diaby, it has to be for balance/defensive reasons.

[4_Arsenal]

I agree. But Song could get in there with Cesc. He seems stronger on the ball than Denilson. I also think Ramsey tracks back to make tackels. And is a much better passer. I just don't think he needs to be starting. Just like Eboue, when Theo is fit, I think he needs to come off the bench after we have a lead. To provide some defensive cover. He doesn't offer enough at the start of the match to get us going.

[Rungostar]

I think some of you are forgetting about the whole Balance issue of the team.

Wenger knows he cant play 4 attacking midfielders at once, which is why he persisted so many times with eboue on the RW because he atleast offered support for sagna and linked up well with him.

To play nasri, cesc, ramsey, theo would result in little to nothing help for the defense. If we had 4 maldinis back there, then hey no problem, but we dont. The team must attack and defend as one Strong Unit.

Having song or denilson balanced out the team. For me, this is the reason Diaby isnt starting, because i dont see why Denilson gets chosen ahead of Diaby, it has to be for balance/defensive reasons.

Whether Denilson is good enough from the players we have vs. whether he is the type of player to enable the team to play in the most optimal fashion are two different questions. I agree with your balance point. But it goes further. What player optimizes Cesc's talents? What player has the techincal ability to go forward with some consistency and create (not that they always need to do so)? What player has the engine to be box to box and physically impose themselves on a match in a way that Cesc can't? I do think that Denilson has shown various pieces of these, save the last one. Hopefully, Wenger sees something that leads him to believe that he can do it. I mean, sheesh, he's done it before. But given his run of games, I haven't seen much to show that he's developing into that player. Here's to me being wrong.

[juanca]

Whether Denilson is good enough from the players we have vs. whether he is the type of player to enable the team to play in the most optimal fashion are two different questions. I agree with your balance point. But it goes further. What player optimizes Cesc's talents? What player has the techincal ability to go forward with some consistency and create (not that they always need to do so)? What player has the engine to be box to box and physically impose themselves on a match in a way that Cesc can't? I do think that Denilson has shown various pieces of these, save the last one. Hopefully, Wenger sees something that leads him to believe that he can do it. I mean, sheesh, he's done it before. But given his run of games, I haven't seen much to show that he's developing into that player. Here's to me being wrong.

I dont who that player is, but i think everyone of us knows that he does NOT play at Arsenal, atleast not yet, hopefully.

i agree with you on your point of who is the best out of what we have opposed to who is best to enhance the whole team.

For the latter, we dont have that player at the moment. For the former, between our only 2 viable options, Denilson and Song, it has to be Denilson. Ramsey just signed for the club and really shouldnt be our glister of hope, not yet anyway. Diaby is a confusing, i think he could do the job but wenger clearly doesnt trust him centrally, Yet.

Song is decent defensively, has a good eye for pass, abit "slow" for my taste, but is very stagnant, seems out of sort when attempting to go forward, in fact, id say hes naturally more defensive.
Denilson, is a much better passer, better control imho, seems more adapt naturally to go box to box, interchangeing with cesc on attacking duties.
The one major thing both players lack, that "gattuso like snarl & bite" to impose themselves on the game.

[phishy]

not good enough.
good squaddie who can come in when we have an emergency situation.
not that good defensively, bad passer, poor positional sense, doesnt score but 1 or 2 goals a season.
i say not good enough on a top, top team. he would be fine playing for an average club or in a different league.

why play him on the right, when wilshere is the better player?
he should be sold away, imo. i'd rather start song or diaby or ramsey before him.

[thebigman]

good enough to play with anither offensive central mid? no

good enough to play with a more defensive central mid, yes, in fact he already is

[phishy]

let me ask you a question... what was the difference between his performance and Nasri's?

nasri - crisp passing, possession, width, and (probably underrated) backtracking display.

[thebigman]

nasri scores goals and isnt a flank player but looks better than denilson when he plays wide