Simak v. Donovan

[Ethel The Frog]

The Dortmund Leverkusen game was broadcast here in the USA.

I was again impressed by Toppy's ability to field an entertaining team and make me wonder why I route for Dortmund.

Simak was great -- turns on a dime, either foot, okay off the ball -- invisible for a lot of the second half, but several flashes of brilliance in the first half -- and he made his briliant moves straight down the middle where Sammer likes to pack the team in with hard tackling defenders.

I do not think that Donovan can take Simak out of the starting lineup -- having watched the quakes play the same day as the Leverkusen game, I am more sure of this.

On Saturday's Quakes/DC game, Donovan played in a midfield and disrtibuting role. He did not seem comfortable with that role and I was not impressed with his moves off the ball -- he stood around too much and his through balls were not on the money. It may be that he had a bad day. Donovan had a few great plays towards the end, but could not beat the DC keeper.

In contrast, Simak was never standing around and he created some interesting situations, especially on the dribble. Simak did not get a goal though.

I know it is not a fair comparison -- only one game for each team. And the field at San Jose is so small that it is hard for Donovan to show his best moves. In contrast it looked like Simak had a lot of space to run around.

[Basti]

before Toppmoeller decided to buy Simak he is supposed to be the equivelant to Tomas Rosicky... ant they are both Czech

things are looding good for the Czech Rebublic

[Ethel The Frog]

Interesting. I had no idea that Simak was so talented. My impression is that Rosicky is better at creative passing, and Simak is better on the dribble.

I am interested to see how the Czechs do in the next European tournament. They also have Koller. I know nothing about their back line though.

[notebook]

Originally posted by Ethel The Frog
I do not think that Donovan can take Simak out of the starting lineup -- having watched the quakes play the same day as the Leverkusen game, I am more sure of this.

On Saturday's Quakes/DC game, Donovan played in a midfield and disrtibuting role. He did not seem comfortable with that role and I was not impressed with his moves off the ball -- he stood around too much and his through balls were not on the money. It may be that he had a bad day. Donovan had a few great plays towards the end, but could not beat the DC keeper.

What do you think Donovan's prospects would be at right midfielder? I think that would be his best shot at cracking a top lineup: he is fast, extremely fit, plays good defense, and is top notch at all the basic skills. He has only played the attacking midfielder role a few times and I don't think it is his strong suit, at least not yet.

[olafgb]

Simak is an entirely different player compared with Rosicky and Donovan.

Simak is rather playing offensive midfield, he is using his brilliant technical skills and always seeks the chance to finish himself. Probably he's the best goal scorer of these three.

Rosicky is rather central or even defensive midfielder. He is losing lots of his abilities if you order a defender to take care of him. His strength is to direct the game from the defence on - he is no brilliant scorer and is still having problems with physical play.

Donovan is rather a player like Neuville. Very good speed, excellent in a counter attack system and a very good assistant. Regarding scoring abilities I think he is someone who can score, but he's not the natural born finisher. I think he has to add some weight for playing in a top league, but that's easy to compensate.

If you're thinking of right midfielder in Leverkusen, then that's probably a position where he has no chance at all against Bernd Schneider. Left and offensive midfield or forward are the positions where he might find a spot.

[Ethel The Frog]

Thanks for the information Olafgb.

I have never thought of Rosicky as a defensive player. I will have to focus more on his defensive moves next time I watch a game (if I can stay awake). I have seen some very clever passing from Rosicky and felt that he fires up the offense when he is in the lineup. I have a kicker issue on the wall of my office with his picture saying "Von Mir werden immer Wunder erwartet". I have always thought of him as a creative player with unique vision and the technique to follow through on his ideas -- more of a Nakata or Valderama style player than a defender. (But of course, Dortmund is defense central). I agree that it is too easy to mark Rosicky out of the game.

I think Schneider has a solid spot at right wing for Toppy. I even read that he was up for Captain when Ramelow is not in the game.

Who is left wing now that Ze Roberto is gone? (Wrong way Roberto). On TV Basturk was listed at left wing, but I was not sure that he actually played that position -- people moved around so much I could not tell.

I do not see Donovan as an alternative to Neuville. In my eyes Neuville is a speed demon who gets past the offside trap and wins the footrace to the goal. I see Donovan as a finesse player -- creating chances in the last third through clever positioning and passing. I think Donovan is at his best in the last third and should not be placed at attacking midfielder. I know Donovan is fast, but have not seen him on many fast breaks. (Of course there are not many fast breaks to be had at Spartan stadium, unless you want to slam into a concrete wall).

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Ethel The Frog
I have a kicker issue on the wall of my office with his picture saying "Von Mir werden immer Wunder erwartet".

That's not very old, right before the season start I guess (or at least this off-season). Possible that this is true, but such a highly praised and paid player is always in the center of attraction. Until now I got to admit that I do not see him as the overwhelming player in Dortmund, though he of course has a good career ahead. Oddly his fellow Jan Koller is always underrated.

Who is left wing now that Ze Roberto is gone? (Wrong way Roberto). On TV Basturk was listed at left wing, but I was not sure that he actually played that position -- people moved around so much I could not tell.


That's really not easy to say. I expected Bierofka to play this part, but he hasn't been in the starting lineup yet. TV indeed listed Bastürk left, kicker had Simak on the left - probably they are changing the positions quite often. I can't say as I didn't see a live game of them this season.

[uniteo]

Right wing? No, no, no, no, no, okay he could play it, but LD has such a gift for making passes, especially on one touch, and has such a great first touch to be able to control and make a play in tight spaces that it would seem to me a waste of his abilities to put him out wide.

And as for your comment about "could not beat the DC keeper", let's not just let that go without giving credit to Rimando for making a truly phenomenal fingertip save on LD in the 2nd period of extra time...a shot created by LD getting the ball centrally, making a run to his left, and uncorking a brilliant, left-footed shot across the goal mouth that was headed for the far side netting. It didn't go in and I think it should be goal of the year (okay, that's exageration)...how can a player who makes shots like that, consistently, not be a 'finisher'?

Oh, and as for starting at BL, with the German Cup, Champion's League, and an entire Bundesliga campaign, no one player is going to monopolize that position.

[uniteo]

Oh yeah, for what it's worth, I'd rather have a player creating havoc at the end of a game than at the beginning.

[Brihodge]

Originally posted by olafgb

That's really not easy to say. I expected Bierofka to play this part, but he hasn't been in the starting lineup yet. TV indeed listed Bastürk left, kicker had Simak on the left - probably they are changing the positions quite often. I can't say as I didn't see a live game of them this season.

Olaf- to help you out a little. I was at the game Sat. Lev-Dortmund and here is my take on the Left midfielder situation. Suprisingly enough it was Placente who was playing left midfield, he would come back on defense a lot more than a normal midfielder but they were really playing more of a 3-5-2 with Placente as the midfielder, which is what enabled him to score the goal. He of course came back and played defense on corners and freekicks when Lucio and Juan went forward. Hope this helps, I thought it was a bit odd at the time, but with 4 talented defenders one has to play another position or they'll have to switch to a 4-4-2.

[maverick]

Originally posted by olafgb
Donovan is rather a player like Neuville. Very good speed, excellent in a counter attack system and a very good assistant. Regarding scoring abilities I think he is someone who can score, but he's not the natural born finisher. I think he has to add some weight for playing in a top league, but that's easy to compensate.

Olaf, I'm a huge fan of your posts on Yanks Abroad, and we've had many discussions before, but these characterizations are just flat-out wrong. I'm not going to touch on whether Simak or any other player is better or worse, but I will speak on Landon.

Landon is an amazing finisher; in fact, he's the best on the whole U.S. National Team. The only thing that kept him from scoring TWICE against Germany in the World Cup was Oliver Kahn and an awful offsides call in the opening minutes. This is merely ONE example I can mention. His ridiculous exploits en route to last year's MLS Cup are worth looking into, in that he scored at least 3 world-class goals in basically a handful of games during the playoffs, which has the TIGHTEST defending of any point in our season.

He is also a stand-out attacking mid, as his play for the Quakes and the USMNT attests. His passes are nearly always well-weighted, well-timed and often totally unexpected -- his interaction with his good buddy Beasley is worth the price of admission alone. He does what he is asked to do by his coach. If that's create opportunities for others, that's what he does. If he's supposed to score, that's what he does. The question is more "where is he playing, and what is expected of him?"

Frankly, the one knock on Landon the last few years is that he doesn't track back enough on defense, which he's been seriously working on, to the point that I feel he often drops back in support of the defensive midfielders too much, but that's just one man's opinion.

As for his weight, he looked like he kept his feet well enough, and you can't knock down what you can't catch. ;) If he can stand out in the World Cup, the Bundesliga won't be a problem (even from a weight perspective).

[olafgb]

Maverick, I trust in you regarding Donovan :). Of course I can only evaluate him on what I've seen in Rostock and at the WC - consequently my opinion depends on the style of the US national team (which is rather counter attacking).

With the weight I'm insecure. He shouldn't lose his characteristics of play by adding too much, but some more weight will help him in the duels (which he will have to face if playing in Europe and the next WC).

But be careful with putting too much emphasis on just a few WC games. He surely played a good tournament, but it's entirely different to keep this high level over months. There have been other players being purchased after a good WC, who never showed similar performances on club stage later on. As long as Donovan doesn't show his abilities in a top league or repeats his performances at the 2006 WC, he'll still be considered a very talented prospect, but nothing more.

Maverick, btw. in kicker someone with Frankfurt phone number (069 is Frankfurt I assume !?!?) was seeking video tapes of MetroStars and USMNT games from 2001 and 2002 with Clint Mathis - you are not involved in this?

[maverick]

Originally posted by olafgb
I can only evaluate him on what I've seen in Rostock and at the WC - consequently my opinion depends on the style of the US national team (which is rather counter attacking).

Maverick, btw. in kicker someone with Frankfurt phone number (069 is Frankfurt I assume !?!?) was seeking video tapes of MetroStars and USMNT games from 2001 and 2002 with Clint Mathis - you are not involved in this?

Olaf, at Rostock and at the WC, the U.S. was primarily a counter-attacking team -- and a rather good one, at that, I might add. For San Jose, however, Landon controls the entire offense for the league's best team; all the possession play runs through him, and he's a lethal organizer and finisher there. I wish you could see him game in and game out, it's a pleasure to watch.

As for his World Cup performances, they weren't out of the blue. This entire year, starting with the Gold Cup in January, he forced his way into the starting lineup with his play against the likes of Holland, Costa Rica, Uruguay and others. There were actually some who argued before the World Cup that he was "too young" or "too inexperienced" to make an impact. Silly in retrospect, I assure you, but at the time... I have NO doubts that he could start and be successful for any Bundesliga club right now, including Bayer or Dortmund. (I won't mention Bayern... those $%#!$& ;) )

BTW, I am in 069 -- Frankfurt -- but that's not me asking for Mathis matches on tape (but I have a couple, because my girlfriend keeps sending them to me on tape!). Must be some Bayern fan...

[olafgb]

Originally posted by maverick

Olaf, at Rostock and at the WC, the U.S. was primarily a counter-attacking team -- and a rather good one, at that, I might add. For San Jose, however, Landon controls the entire offense for the league's best team; all the possession play runs through him, and he's a lethal organizer and finisher there. I wish you could see him game in and game out, it's a pleasure to watch.

Okay, that's possible. As I said, I can just evaluate his WC performance - and the other qualities first have to be proved on international level.


I have NO doubts that he could start and be successful for any Bundesliga club right now, including Bayer or Dortmund. (I won't mention Bayern... those $%#!$& ;) )

Another thing he has to prove. He's got the abilities for sure, but qualities alone never made a top player. Lots of big talents failed because of their nerves.

I mean, don't get me wrong, he is a giant talent. Besides all this happiness, etc. talk (what I can understand of course, I don't want to tell others how to live) - for me it is the most disappointing thing that he doesn't move up to compete on a top level, because this is the reason for practicing sports.

BTW, I am in 069 -- Frankfurt -- but that's not me asking for Mathis matches on tape (but I have a couple, because my girlfriend keeps sending them to me on tape!). Must be some Bayern fan... [/B]

I assume some other US citizens are living in Frankfurt... could also be a player agent.

[Martin Fischer]

Well I saw the Leverkusen/Dortmund draw and I thought that Simak was an interesting player with some skills. I think his performance is a little overstated here as he often disappeared and when he did do good thing, didn't really capitalize on his skills as much. I think he and Donovan would be fairly competitive.

And Olaf, once again, all Donovan is saying is that at this moment in time for this particular time, he is not interested in trying to prove himself at a level closer to the top level. Another time and another situation, it may be different. Even leaving aside the all important issue of personal happiness, I think it makes sense for Donovan at age 20 to spend another couple of years being the man before he takes a risk and tries to compete for a spot on a world class team.

[notebook]

Originally posted by maverick
He is also a stand-out attacking mid, as his play for the Quakes and the USMNT attests.
I am not sure this has been demonstrated yet. Let me apologize in advance if I have my facts mixed up. But I thought Donovan played at forward for the Quakes last year and that Ekelund has played at attacking midfielder for most of the games this year. At the World Cup, Donovan played the three group play games at right midfielder and at forward against Germany. He did play attacking midfielder against Mexico, put we played very defensively after the early goal so it was hard to judge him in that role though he did play excellent defense.

I do think he is a good finisher, but it is interesting that both Arena and Yallop (this year) appear to have decided he can contribute more in midfield than at forward. To what extent this is due to team strengths/weaknesses versus Donovan's relative strengths I am not sure.

Anyways, just some observations. I definitely agree that he is a great player who you want on the field whatever the position is.

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Martin Fischer

And Olaf, once again, all Donovan is saying is that at this moment in time for this particular time, he is not interested in trying to prove himself at a level closer to the top level. Another time and another situation, it may be different. Even leaving aside the all important issue of personal happiness, I think it makes sense for Donovan at age 20 to spend another couple of years being the man before he takes a risk and tries to compete for a spot on a world class team.

Martin, I said that I can understand him personally and was just arguing from the sportive side. And I think you can hardly discuss the fact away that early playing time on a top level is better than spending (maybe too) long on a lower level - also consider that he might need time to get accustomed in different aspects, this might be lost time. And once again, all of us can just evaluate the sportive side - the only one who can judge on the personal situation is Donovan himself.

[dcc134]

Mathis is the best finisher the US has, not LD.

[MarioKempes]

LD can score some goals, but he is certainly not the best finisher. He is not a pure or natural striker by any means. He does not finish well under pressure. If you give him time, he will bury you, yes, but I expect this from any good player.

If LD was truly a great finisher, he would have beaten Kahn, he would have scored against Italy in Sicily, and he would have scored against Germany in Rostock.

This is no great criticism of LD. Only a handful of players in the world can be considered great strikers. The only great striker the US has had in recent times is Eric Wynalda. Of course Wynald's time passed around 1996. Mathis is coming along ok, but still not at Wynalda's level. McBride has his moments.

LD's speed of thought and play, his midfield creativity and intelligence, and his technical skills speak for themselves.

[Ethel The Frog]

I think Mario has hit it on the head.

Donovan does play forward for San Jose, and I think that is where he is best. The point I was trying to make at the beginning was simply that last saturday, Simak did a better job playing attacking midfielder for Leverkusen than Donovan did playing for the quakes in a similar role.

As to the Rimando save, it was a good save, but many BL keepers would have made that save.

This is the third time I have tried to post, but something is wrong with the software. Hopefully this will not result in three similar posts from me. If it does, I apologize.