Simak v. Donovan

[appoo]

With todays thrashing at the hands of Bochum (even though Simak did score), I think the fans at Leverkusen might be getting kind of nervous. Bayer has yet to win a game. Do you think Topmoeller and Calmund might be forced to make a move? in desparation? I'm not calling donovan a savior but he will be something different and an infusion of young talent if things keep going for Leverkusen as they are.

[olafgb]

Originally posted by appooOnU
With todays thrashing at the hands of Bochum (even though Simak did score), I think the fans at Leverkusen might be getting kind of nervous. Bayer has yet to win a game. Do you think Topmoeller and Calmund might be forced to make a move? in desparation? I'm not calling donovan a savior but he will be something different and an infusion of young talent if things keep going for Leverkusen as they are.

The start was very bad and nobody is satisfied with it. At the moment everybody is still quite relaxed as it was quite clear that it would last longer than for other teams to find the top shape (Leverkusen's national players were the last to start the pre-season). However, clear is that every lost point now increases the probability that Donovan has to return this year.

[appoo]

Originally posted by olafgb


The start was very bad and nobody is satisfied with it. At the moment everybody is still quite relaxed as it was quite clear that it would last longer than for other teams to find the top shape (Leverkusen's national players were the last to start the pre-season). However, clear is that every lost point now increases the probability that Donovan has to return this year.

I think Donovan would goif Leverkusen really meant it. You;d think he has some loyalty to the people signing his paycheck

[Jay_Rob]

LD hasn't looked that good either. I know that he is the boy wonder, but San Jose has lost a step or two w/ his return back from the World Cup. Also one can argue that he helped w/ the loss to LA in the US Open Cup. On the winning play, he allow EZ to send the pass to El Pescadito (who was being guarded by Agoof). Then yesterday's pasting on National TV against the Rapids, doesn't show much for LD being ready to come to Leverkusen. I think Levekusen needs to work on their D. Also they have lost two very important playas to Bayern. So Leverkusen needs to get it together or think about the future. If I was Calmund, I would yank LD's ass from SJ. Hey they are the contract holders right???

[appoo]

Originally posted by Jay_Rob
LD hasn't looked that good either. I know that he is the boy wonder, but San Jose has lost a step or two w/ his return back from the World Cup.

I think soccer is one of those sports where a star can only shine if his teamates are also playing well. I thought the Rapids - Quakes game provided a perfect example of this. Did you notice how often the Rapids got the ball to the feet of Valderamma? Compare that to how often Donovan got the ball. I thought it was telling that when he did get the ball usually something dangerous happened. A dangerous through pass, a quick run, something. Unfortunatly. he only got like 10 - 15 touches the whole game. I actually noticed this in the DCU game. I don't know if its Landon not working hard enough or his midfielders and defenders unable to find him, but he does not get many touches through a game. If he got the same amount of touches that Valderamma got in the Quakes game, the Quakes would be unstoppable and they would be averaging around 3 goals a game. I think Leverkusen realizes, and you can ask Olaf, they have the players to get him the ball.

[Ethel The Frog]

The Quakes looked bad this weekend, but apparently they have struggled on the road all year.

The big problem the Quakes had was in central defense. Valderamma sent one ball after another down the middle. He was on his game. He is a class act, but we never should have given him the amount of time we did.

San Jose has already qualified for the playoffs and Agoos should come on line just in time for that. The games from now to the end of the season do not mean that much -- though it would be a bummer if LA took over the lead from us.

[appoo]

Originally posted by Ethel The Frog
The Quakes looked bad this weekend, but apparently they have struggled on the road all year.

The big problem the Quakes had was in central defense. Valderamma sent one ball after another down the middle. He was on his game. He is a class act, but we never should have given him the amount of time we did.

San Jose has already qualified for the playoffs and Agoos should come on line just in time for that. The games from now to the end of the season do not mean that much -- though it would be a bummer if LA took over the lead from us.

But would you agree with me that The Quakes are not getting the ball enough to Landon? They should make him the focal point of their offense

[tpm]

Originally posted by appooOnU
I think soccer is one of those sports where a star can only shine if his teamates are also playing well. I thought the Rapids - Quakes game provided a perfect example of this. Did you notice how often the Rapids got the ball to the feet of Valderamma? Compare that to how often Donovan got the ball. I thought it was telling that when he did get the ball usually something dangerous happened. A dangerous through pass, a quick run, something. Unfortunatly. he only got like 10 - 15 touches the whole game. I actually noticed this in the DCU game. I don't know if its Landon not working hard enough or his midfielders and defenders unable to find him, but he does not get many touches through a game. If he got the same amount of touches that Valderamma got in the Quakes game, the Quakes would be unstoppable and they would be averaging around 3 goals a game. I think Leverkusen realizes, and you can ask Olaf, they have the players to get him the ball.

LD seems to be the type of player that lets the game come to him - he rarely, if ever, tries to "take charge" of a match and make something happen. I would normally not have much of a problem with this, but when you're the most talented player on your team and have excellent technical skills, vision and finishing skills, I would want you to "demand" the ball, particularly when your team is behind.

appoo, you talk about the # of touches - IMO, LD is in control of how many touches he gets. Seriously, how many guys in MLS can mark him out of a game for 90 minutes if he doesn't want to be: zero. The degree of mental toughness required to truly become a dominating player is very high and not all talented players have it or acquire it.

[tpm]

Originally posted by appooOnU
But would you agree with me that The Quakes are not getting the ball enough to Landon? They should make him the focal point of their offense

I would put it this way, Landon is not getting the ball enough for as talented a player he is - he "should" be the focal point of the offense. Whether it's the "fault" of the other players or a matter of LD not willing or able to shoulder the responsibility is the key question here. IMHO, the answer to this question is key to whether LD will succeed at the game's highest levels.

[Ethel The Frog]

I do not think Donovan should automatically be the focal point of the Quakes offense.

Ekelund, DeRo, Lagos, and Graziani all contribute to the Quakes offense and are all talented and determined enough to win games for us. Donovan is just part of the lineup and should make his case to be the "go-to" guy by showing the requisite determination and grit at the same level or higher than those guys. In fact, I don't think he should be guaranteed to start -- though he has earned his starting spot through his quality play to date.

The teams that are best are ones that can bring an attack from lots of different places -- like Leverkusen. You can't knock out the Leverkusen offense by marking Simak out of the game. Instead, if you focus on Simak, you create openings for the other talented guys on the team to attack.

[tpm]

Originally posted by Ethel The Frog I do not think Donovan should automatically be the focal point of the Quakes offense.

Ekelund, DeRo, Lagos, and Graziani all contribute to the Quakes offense and are all talented and determined enough to win games for us. Donovan is just part of the lineup and should make his case to be the "go-to" guy by showing the requisite determination and grit at the same level or higher than those guys. In fact, I don't think he should be guaranteed to start -- though he has earned his starting spot through his quality play to date.

The teams that are best are ones that can bring an attack from lots of different places -- like Leverkusen. You can't knock out the Leverkusen offense by marking Simak out of the game. Instead, if you focus on Simak, you create openings for the other talented guys on the team to attack.

I agree with you that LD should not automatically be the focus of the SJ offense; the reason for my "should" in quotes was to highlight the fact that, if he was indeed as phenomenal of a player that the bandwagon jumpers have now put him, he "should" be the focal point. He is not, and will not be until he proves he can shoulder the burden.

At this point, the Quakes need someone to step up on the road, this year's road record is surprisingly poor. Of the players you mentioned, none other than Donovan has the ability to impact the game from midfield to the penalty box (I rule out Ronnie only because of his current physical limitations, although he's been a stronger offensive force this year). My point here is that he needs to recognize that and, particularly when behind in the 2nd half, he needs to step it up.

Ethel, regarding your Leverkusen ocmments: you are spot on....if talking about last year's squad. This year seems to be a different story, although it's early yet. Anytime you lose talent like Ze Roberto and Ballack, it takes time to regroup. At this point, I don't think LD could supplant either Simak or Basturk.

[appoo]

Originally posted by tpm
Ethel, regarding your Leverkusen ocmments: you are spot on....if talking about last year's squad. This year seems to be a different story, although it's early yet. Anytime you lose talent like Ze Roberto and Ballack, it takes time to regroup. At this point, I don't think LD could supplant either Simak or Basturk.

I don't think he needs to. Just let him play off the bench. He makes a fantastic sub. You could play him a 3rd forward and let him feed off of Simak and Bosturk. I think thats all Landon wants, PT

[Ethel The Frog]

Glad to be spot on, even if only talking about last year's team. :)

I think even this year's team is too talented to allow much double teaming. If you try to take Simak out of the game, Leverkusen will still be able to create good opportunities, whether through Basturk, Schneider, or even from its back line.

The question is who is going to finish for them. Kirsten is no longer an option -- that's a big loss too. Ballack is gone, and I do not think that Neuville is a serious contender for torshutzenkonig. I thought that Simak was going to be the new finisher, but he is a midfielder, and he does not have Ballack's muscle or air game. I expect that both Simak and Neuville will come out with over 10 goals on the season each, but what Leverkusen needs is a consistent scorer -- someone who like Kirsten or Ballack can score a goal every other game. I do not think either Donovan or Simak is the guy, but I think that Simak is the better finisher at this point.

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Ethel The Frog

The question is who is going to finish for them. Kirsten is no longer an option -- that's a big loss too. Ballack is gone, and I do not think that Neuville is a serious contender for torshutzenkonig. I thought that Simak was going to be the new finisher, but he is a midfielder, and he does not have Ballack's muscle or air game. I expect that both Simak and Neuville will come out with over 10 goals on the season each, but what Leverkusen needs is a consistent scorer -- someone who like Kirsten or Ballack can score a goal every other game. I do not think either Donovan or Simak is the guy, but I think that Simak is the better finisher at this point.

Kirsten was aging, it is good that they took him out before he's damaging his reputation. As you said, Neuville is a 10-15 goals scorer (I'm expecting Simak to make 8-10). The question is whether Berbatov gets his breakthrough this season, then he's also good for 10-15 goals. But the real hope for Bayer is Franca - he came to Germany with an injury, but now he is healthy. Against Bochum he played about 60 minutes and his goal was extra class. If he can confess his reputation as brilliant striker, then expect 15-20 of him.

[tpm]

Originally posted by olafgb

Kirsten was aging, it is good that they took him out before he's damaging his reputation. As you said, Neuville is a 10-15 goals scorer (I'm expecting Simak to make 8-10). The question is whether Berbatov gets his breakthrough this season, then he's also good for 10-15 goals. But the real hope for Bayer is Franca - he came to Germany with an injury, but now he is healthy. Against Bochum he played about 60 minutes and his goal was extra class. If he can confess his reputation as brilliant striker, then expect 15-20 of him.

olaf,

given Franca's return and whatever else is now happening at BL, what do you think Donovan's chances would be to make the 18? (obviously a theoretical at this point due to the latest news, but what is BS if not for speculation) :)

[olafgb]

Originally posted by tpm


olaf,

given Franca's return and whatever else is now happening at BL, what do you think Donovan's chances would be to make the 18? (obviously a theoretical at this point due to the latest news, but what is BS if not for speculation) :)

The 18 are no topic at all. Without any doubt he'd make the bench for every game. The starting eleven would be harder to predict - first of all he'd have to stay outside and then you've got to wait for coincidences = other injuries, suspensions or/and Donovan simply using his chances in the playing time he gets

[Brihodge]

Olaf, from what I've seen they only put 5 on the bench, not 7 as 18 would imply, they usually have a game day squad of 16, thus his chances would be a bit worse, but I still think he would make it.

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Brihodge
Olaf, from what I've seen they only put 5 on the bench, not 7 as 18 would imply, they usually have a game day squad of 16, thus his chances would be a bit worse, but I still think he would make it.

18; 7 are on the bench. Last weekend 11 started, Franca, Balitsch and Bierofka had playing time later on. Juric, Vranjes, Babic and Brdaric were remaining on the bench. 11 + 3 + 4 = 18 :)