ACC Final

[Rufusabc]

In the Maryland Virginia game for the ACC title, there is a play where the ball is quickly shot on the Virginia goal from about the top of the area with everyone near the ball (meaning the AR is with the 2nd last and nowhere near the goal line).

Anyhow, the ball hits the underside of the bar and quickly comes back out. A couple of minutes later, the replay shows the ball hitting about a foot over the line (probably no more than that, maybe even less than that). There is NO WAY the AR could have seen it over, and no player thought it was over, and I doubt the center could have seen it over. But, it was over. Play continued with no visible reaction from either team as the ball came out.

I have a physics question: Does the rounded bar make it more likely than a flat underside to make the ball spin like that and go down, over, and back out?

Question #2: Have you ever had to make a call on such a play? As an AR or as a CR?

Rufus

[Pierre Head]

Ask the referee in the 1966 World Cup Final!
Or perhaps better ask his linesman (not Russian but
from Azerbaijan). They gave the goal although the linesman
was clearly 8-10 yards off the line.

Or you could ask the linesman in the NASL play-off game between
NY Cosmos and Vancouver. He gave the goal initially
but changed his mind after protests from Cosmos players,
particularly Chinaglia.

These things happen from time to time. Sometimes the goals are given
other times not.

But in the ACC game, if nobody saw it, it was not a goal. Although it is surprising that the attackers did not claim it.

PH

[soccerman8067]

Pretty sure i watched the game, and in my opinion these are the things that make the game what it is. Sometimes the call just can't be made and we keep playing! Also if im thinking of the right game, weren't the officials wearing adidas uniforms?

[Rufusabc]

I can't remember what they were wearing. But you're right about the game just moving on. No one complained about the ball going in because everyone assumed it hadn't gone in. I thought in real time it had come out so hard and fast that there was no way it had gone in. Didnt even think about it being a goal. Then they showed it a number of times on the replay and it was barely over the line.

the incedents that are described in an earlier post where long ago when the goals were probably wooden and not the substances they are now. And we know that England still hasn't scored and I have no recollection of the NASL match.

[blech]

***
I have a physics question: Does the rounded bar make it more likely than a flat underside to make the ball spin like that and go down, over, and back out?
***
Rufus

I'll qualify my reaction by telling you that I took a few physics classes back in the day, but I am doing no more than guessing, just as I would do if I faced this question on a final exam! :) I would think this type of spin/bounce is more likely to be caused by a square post than a rounded one. If you think about it, it wouldn't be the flat underside where the ball strikes, but rather the lower front edge (if the ball is under that lower flat corner/edge and hitting the flat underbelly, it's going in....) So, my thinking, for what it's worth, is that the pointy corner/edge is more likely to cause friction with the ball and generate even more spin than a rounded surface. In turn, more spin equals greater likelihood that a ball would go over the line before bouncing back out.

[refmedic]

Both of my parents are referees, and they are also BOTH Physics teachers (and Chemistry teachers, so you can imagine how much fun my childhood was). The answer to your question, according to them, is yes. A round surface (ball) hitting another round surface (post) creates more spin than a round surface (ball) hitting a flat surface (post). In both situations, if a non-spinning ball hits the either post squarely in the middle in a straight line, it will create no spin at all. I asked them to explain it to me and my eyes glazed over shortly thereafter.

I think the more important issue here is that if we aren't 100% sure that the entire ball crossed the entire goal line between the goal posts and under the crossbar then we CANNOT award a goal. It's as simple as that.

[Ref Flunkie]

Both of my parents are referees, and they are also BOTH Physics teachers (and Chemistry teachers, so you can imagine how much fun my childhood was). The answer to your question, according to them, is yes. A round surface (ball) hitting another round surface (post) creates more spin than a round surface (ball) hitting a flat surface (post). In both situations, if a non-spinning ball hits the either post squarely in the middle in a straight line, it will create no spin at all. I asked them to explain it to me and my eyes glazed over shortly thereafter.

This is what I would think as well. If it is a square, it likely either hits the corner (facing out) and bounces out of the net, or it hits the flat bottom that is parallel to the ground and continues into the goal. There are a lot more angles that can result in a ball directed almost straight down when the post is round vs. a square one.

[Pierre Head]

the incedents that are described in an earlier post where long ago when the goals were probably wooden and not the substances they are now. And we know that England still hasn't scored and I have no recollection of the NASL match.

The World Cup incident was at Wembley where the goals were probably wooden, but I am not sure. I believe
they were round in cross-section though. The goals at Giants Stadium
were/are metal, and round in cross-section. I am not sure that the
materials make all that much difference in this type of incident.

Goalposts in top teams stadia in England used to be more oval in cross-section rather than perfectly round, with the longer axis perpendicular to the
goal line. I don't know the reason, perhaps it has something
to do with the physics of rebounds.

In answer to the second question, yes it happened in a kids game when I
was CR. The shot hit the underside of the crossbar, and came down
about 1 foot inside the line, and with spin bounced out, right into the
goalkeeper's arms. I saw it and gave the goal. The goalie complained
but some parents who were behind the goal told him it did cross the
line and he accepted the decision.

PH