Montreal has dropped out of the running for an expansion club in 2011.

[anewsoccerfan]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2008/11/mls_news.html#more


Sorry, Impact fans.

[triplet1]

Refusal to pay the higher expansion fee?

[evangel]

I believe it has to do with the economy. Some time ago there was some thread where someone mentioned that MLS had reportedly been shocked to learn that a major bid was considering dropping out due to the economy. Montreal must have been that bid.

[antnee7898]

Oh yeah...

[Z010 Union]

And after the rumors they started that that very fate was dooming Philadelphia.

Sorry Montreal fans, you have all been a credit in the stadium to your passion for the sport and your city and would be a good addition to the league.

[SounderMan]

I believe it has to do with the economy. Some time ago there was some thread where someone mentioned that MLS had reportedly been shocked to learn that a major bid was considering dropping out due to the economy. Montreal must have been that bid.

That was actually BEFORE the deadline for application for this round. Why would they apply if they already knew they would be dropping. I was under the impression that NY was the one who dropped out due to the economy so they could regroup for a later expansion round. You may be right, but it doesn't make sense to put in the bid if you were not really serious. I'm thinking that the insistence on $30 million for the expansion fee is what ultimately forced them to drop. Sooner or later you ante up or fold. Perhaps all the other bids were at least willing to pony up the rumored $40 to $50 million.

[evangel]

That was actually BEFORE the deadline for application for this round. Why would they apply if they already knew they would be dropping. I was under the impression that NY was the one who dropped out due to the economy so they could regroup for a later expansion round. YOu may be right, but it doesn;t make sense to put in th ebid if you were not really serious. I'm thinking that the insistence on $30 million for the expansion fee is what ultimately forced them to drop. Sooner or later you ante up or fold. Perhaps all the other bids were at least willing to pony up the rumored $40 to $50 million.

You're right. I hadn't remembered that the story about a bid dropping out had come before the application submissions.

[Z010 Union]

This might have been why Garber was posturing about the fees and worthiness of bids in the NY Times interview.

Q: There has been some talk that some of the seven bidders are balking at the $40 million expansion fee. True?

A: Again we do what we have to do. We have an expansion price and have had multiple bidders submit plans. They know that the price is the price. If we can’t get our price, we would postpone making that decision. We are absolutely convinced that several groups will be viable to for the next round of expansion. We are seeking strong potential owners in the right markets with the right facility plan and who believe in the increasing value of our teams.

[D3nZ]

Wow, I am speechless, totally speechless. It may explain why the Montreal bid was so quiet, while everyone was beeing so out there.

[Bariaga]

Vancouver is now in for the 2011 season. You can take this to the bank.

[drSoFlaFan]

Vancouver is now in for the 2011 season. You can take this to the bank.

That's a bold prediction. Only if they announce 4 teams can you guarantee Vancouver. Canadian national TV deal or not, Vancouver is the least likely of the 4 realistic remaining bids IMO. Shared stadium and no revenue control hurts them. St. Louis and Portland have SSS plans, and Miami has as close to a SSS as you can get, including near total revenue control. Miami only has FIU playing 3-4 games max during MLS season, while BC Place would have the entire CFL season running alongside MLS. Unless they pull a SSS out of nowhere, or Portland and St. Louis mysteriously vanish off the face of the Earth, I wouldn't go guaranteeing Vancouver gets in.

[QueensNick]

Sorry Montreal Fans - would have been a hell of a match against Toronto!

[evangel]

In this MLS article: http://web.mlsnet.com/mls/events/mls...2008&fext=.jsp (http://web.mlsnet.com/mls/events/mls_cup/2008/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081121&content_id=205893&vkey=mlscup2008&fext=.jsp)

a line that confuses the expansion process even more is given:

Ottawa made a particularly strong impression, with Garber saying that group "blew us away" with their presentation.

It's possible that Ottawa was the city that benefited the most from Montreal's dropout.

(http://web.mlsnet.com/mls/events/mls_cup/2008/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081121&content_id=205893&vkey=mlscup2008&fext=.jsp)

[PhillyMLS]

Here is another factor that people have hinted at. This is how much the 40 million US dollar expansion fee equates to in Canadian dollars. I've included a bunch of dates so you can see how this has gone for Montreal. I did these on the 15th because the expansion bids were due on October 15th.

November 15, 2007 - $39,200,000
January 15, 2008 - $40,680,000
May 15, 2008 - $40,048,000
June 15, 2008 - $41,160,000
July 15, 2008 - $40,060,000
August 15, 2008 - $42,440,000
September 15, 2008 - $42,680,000
October 15, 2008 - $47,200,000
November 15, 2008 - $49,440,000
November 21, 2008 - $50,800,000

As you can see since the Canadian dollar was really strong against the American dollar up until the end of the summer. Throughout the planning process they were relatively even and then everything shot up. If they thought back at the end of last year the expansion fee was $30 million dollars they probably were happy (since the Canadian dollar either equaled or was better than the American dollar). When the price went up $10 million they weren't too happy but with their dollar losing ground the price has gone up almost 20 million dollars. If the American dollar continues to gain or the Canadian dollar continues to slip the expansion fee could be 55 to 60 million Canadian dollars. They could theoretically be looking at their expected expansion fee to double in just over a year. That would be a pretty good reason to sit out now and wait for the economy to stabilize.

[camilos]

Well this freaken sucks. Saputo appears to be the kind of owner who only likes to spend the minimum amount of $ possible.

We had those exact kind of owners with the Expos. I don't want to relieve those years. This really sucks.

[pletch99]

I think this decision might have more to do with George Gillet than Joey Saputo.

I think that Gillet agreed to work with Saputo expecting to have sold his stake in Liverpool FC. He hasn't and therefore I suspect his ability to complete his half of the agreement has been hampered as a result.

Everytime I've mentioned the Gillet and money situation, people have said that he's a mega rich man and that it won't be a problem, but the UK press has written lots about the fact that the worsening economic situation has meant the Gillet and Hicks are unable to re-finance their loans they took out to buy Liverpool and work on the new stadium has more or less stopped because they could not raise the capital. This does not sound like a man with lots of spare cash or at least not one who is willing to spend all his personal worth.

[Gandalf The Red]

I think this decision might have more to do with George Gillet than Joey Saputo.

I think that Gillet agreed to work with Saputo expecting to have sold his stake in Liverpool FC. He hasn't and therefore I suspect his ability to complete his half of the agreement has been hampered as a result.

Everytime I've mentioned the Gillet and money situation, people have said that he's a mega rich man and that it won't be a problem, but the UK press has written lots about the fact that the worsening economic situation has meant the Gillet and Hicks are unable to re-finance their loans they took out to buy Liverpool and work on the new stadium has more or less stopped because they could not raise the capital. This does not sound like a man with lots of spare cash or at least not one who is willing to spend all his personal worth.

Well said Gillet & Hicks are just 2 guys with Credit cards that have been maxed out, now they are nobodies.

[Johnnie Monster]

That's a bold prediction. Only if they announce 4 teams can you guarantee Vancouver. Canadian national TV deal or not, Vancouver is the least likely of the 4 realistic remaining bids IMO. Shared stadium and no revenue control hurts them. St. Louis and Portland have SSS plans, and Miami has as close to a SSS as you can get, including near total revenue control. Miami only has FIU playing 3-4 games max during MLS season, while BC Place would have the entire CFL season running alongside MLS. Unless they pull a SSS out of nowhere, or Portland and St. Louis mysteriously vanish off the face of the Earth, I wouldn't go guaranteeing Vancouver gets in.

Are you aware that CFL teams only play 9 home games in a reg season?

Are you aware that the Lions typically split their 9 home games evenly on Thursday, Fridays or Saturdays ?

Are you aware that two events can be held on the same day? (ie one afternoon game, and one evening game?)

Are you also aware that the Whitecaps and BC Lions are highly unlikely to use the same rug?

There's no complicating issues with sharing BC Place whatsoever. The Lions are rental tenants, just as the Whitecaps would be. If anything, the Whitecaps would be booking more dates than the Lions, and would receive just as much consideration in planning issues, if not more.

As for your statements re: St. Louis and Portland's readiness to enter the league, you are off your rocker.

St. Louis has a plan. It's supposedly financed, but in today's economic climate NOTHING is certain. Montreal's withdrawal just proved that, and they had the deepest pockets of the bunch AND a stadium that was already built (although expansion renos were needed.)

Portland has a plan.... but it's entirely dependent on taxpayer funding... not only for the renos PGE, but for the construction of a second stadium altogether for baseball.

.

[triplet1]

I think this decision might have more to do with George Gillet than Joey Saputo.

I think that Gillet agreed to work with Saputo expecting to have sold his stake in Liverpool FC. He hasn't and therefore I suspect his ability to complete his half of the agreement has been hampered as a result.

Everytime I've mentioned the Gillet and money situation, people have said that he's a mega rich man and that it won't be a problem, but the UK press has written lots about the fact that the worsening economic situation has meant the Gillet and Hicks are unable to re-finance their loans they took out to buy Liverpool and work on the new stadium has more or less stopped because they could not raise the capital. This does not sound like a man with lots of spare cash or at least not one who is willing to spend all his personal worth.


That's certainly possible. I suspect money is at the bottom of this, but I've got a suspicion that it was more specific than fears about the general state of the economy. Rather, I think this was more about the money they had to come up with and when they had to come up with it, and your comments about Gillet support that idea.

People have noted here before that Montreal has always been coy about their willingness to pay the entire expansion fee. As I recall, Saputo was previously quoted as saying they were only willing to spend that much on the expansion fee and required stadium renovations. A couple weeks ago we had the column from the Montreal paper suggesting the fee wasn't worth it followed by the Garber Q & A in the New York Times that MLS had every intention of holding firm on the dollar amount.

I really sense there was some hard back and forth on this, both directly and through the media, for some time with Saputo trying to get a lower fee. With the most "MLS ready" bid, he probably thought he was in a strong bargaining position, which has been eroded by the emergence of several other strong candidates. In the end, I think Saputo couldn't or wouldn't budge, and it was better to withdraw the application than to have MLS award the franchise and fail to meet the conditions.

[GoodTimes2008]

i had posted this in the montreal forum but i think we might get better discussion here.

as much as i think this is a blow to montreal, i really feel this is an even bigger blow to the MLS league.

the ownership group from Montreal are smart investors, they have evaluated the investment and have obvious doubts as to what returns this league will have. look at it like this

1-Montreal has built a new soccer specific stadium, and has plans to expand
2-fans support is not a question they will sell out every game

then think of this
3-they must beleive concacaf is a far more prestigious playoff system then the mls system
4-most team stadiums in the US are not exactly filled, nor have the exposure (yet)
5-they can/will be the strongest team in usl 1 probably even stronger than most mls teams
6-mls has yet to really prove anything internationally, i mean no one can say it is the best league consisting of the best teams in north and central america.

there are many more points we can add to this. I mean this is not the death of soccer in montreal, in fact it is far from it.

this will ensure a stronger , more competitive "international type" team