Homegrown XIs

[cr7torossi]

Was thinking of making this thread for a while but DS' thread finally motivated me to overcome my laziness

I was just wondering one of these days about the large number of homegrown academy Utd players currently actively playing at the senior levels (not including those poached from other academies/teams) and not including players at levels below the championship.

This would be my squad (intl. team, if applicable)

Goalkeepers
Tom HEATON (Cardiff, England U-21)
Luke STEELE (Barnsley)

Defenders
Gary NEVILLE (Man Utd, England)
Phil NEVILLE (Everton, England)
Danny SIMPSON (Man Utd/Blackburn)
John O'SHEA (Man Utd, Ireland)
Danny HIGGINBOTHAM (Stoke)
Jonny EVANS (Man Utd, Northern Ireland)
Wesley BROWN (Man Utd, England)
Ryan SHAWCROSS (Stoke, England U-21)
Craig CATHCART (Man Utd/Plymouth, Northern Ireland U-21)
Philip BARDSLEY (Sunderland)
Paul McSHANE (Sunderland/Hull, Ireland)

Midfielders
David BECKHAM (LAG/Milan, England)
Paul SCHOLES (Man Utd, England)
Nicky BUTT (Newcastle, England)
Robbie SAVAGE (Derby, Wales)
Darren FLETCHER (Man Utd, Scotland)
Kieran RICHARDSON (Sunderland, England)
Darron GIBSON (Man Utd, Ireland)
David JONES (Derby)
Ryan GIGGS (Man Utd, Wales)
Chris EAGLES (Burnley

Forwards
Frazier CAMPBELL (Man Utd/Spurs, England U-21)
Sylvan EBANKS-BLAKE (Wolves, England U-21)
Daniel WELBECK (Man Utd, England U-17)

We are a bit weak upfront (Healy doesn't qualify) but it is still a quality team. What would be your starting XI and which all teams can field a team that can compete (west ham should be one)?

Also, am I missing someone obvious?

[Republic of Mancunia]

Were you thinking currently or career-wise? I know you said they're currently in those divisions but did you mean at their current performance levels too? Beckham obviously gets in if we're thinking of the greatest heights that some of these players reached but I'd be less inclined to include him now, particularly if we're talking starting XI. Same to a degree with Gaz, Giggs, Savage, Butt etc. which throws up some nice conundrums.

Also brings up the debate of what a youth product is again. Always unsure with that one.

[cr7torossi]

Including players (at their peak performances) would not really be indicative of how good the academy is.

As for defining youth product, I think only including those at the club since age 15 or lower should be included and signing their first pro contract at the club should work fine. I guess that would mean not including Richardson or Pennant (in Arsenal's case)

[Republic of Mancunia]

I think only including those at the club since age 15 or lower should be included and signing their first pro contract at the club should work fine. I guess that would mean not including Richardson.

That was a big grey-area for me, especially as many of the younger players who move clubs don't necesarilly have the values of their compensation packages if there were any made public. Lee Martin, Danny Nardiello as well as Richardson are 3 that I think most know about. O'Shea's status at Bohemians has always been unclear to me. :confused:

Can't really have Luke Steele as I believe we paid £500k when he was 18. Would be similar to Healy.


As far as missing players, did a quick trawl and am not sure if you'd think any of these would be valid? (Can't see any getting in most peoples XI anyway)

Unsure of their status before they signed with us:

RICHIE WELLENS (Doncaster Rovers)
MARK WILSON (Doncaster Rovers)
DANNY WEBBER (Sheffield United)
PAUL RACHUBKA (Blackpool)
DAVID FOX (Blackpool)
DANNY PUGH (Stoke City)
RONNIE WALLWORK (Sheffield Wednesday)

Playing outside England, depends on how high alevel you would see it, same doubts as above:

MICHAEL STEWART (Hearts)
JOHN RANKIN (Hibs)
MARK HOWARD (Brondby)
TERRY COOKE (Colorado)

Anyway, reckon I'd go with:

-----------Heaton-----------
G.Neville-Brown-Evans-O'Shea
-----------P.Neville
--Fletcher-Scholes-Richardson--
--------Blake-Campbell

On a different day, might've looked to put Giggs in behind a lone front-man (the board groans), moved Brown to RB and stuck Shawcross in the middle or played Phil at LB and dropped Butt into midfield. They'd probably be my closest decisions, maybe Beckham after that.

Edit: Taking another look at that, it's a bit horrible isn't it? :D I'd want Fletch and Richardson to play fairly narrow to support Scholes but don't see much great attacking prowess coming from the fullback area. Just whack it over the top and hope Campbell, Blake and Richardson can use speed might be my best hope or get Scholes to play some through-balls.

[biro]

Jon Macken? Came up through our youth system, think he plays for a championship side now.

And why not Healy? He came up through our youth system as well, certainly played for our U18 team

[Dark Savante]

David JONES (Derby)

Wolves.

This is a two tier thread, I'd think.

If we just did a standard xi with active established talent, we'd probably have this:

-----------------Heaton
----------Brown--------Evans
Neville--------------------------O'Shea
----------Fletcher---Scholes
Beckham-----------------------Richardson
--------------------Giggs
------------Campbell

With only Campbell and Heaton not being full international or capped at that level.

But the fun bit would be doing it without any of these sans Evans, Campbell and Heaton:

-----------------Heaton
----------Cathcart------Evans
Simpson------------------------Higginbotham
----------Gibson------Jones
Welbeck-------------------------Eagles
------------Campbell---Ebanks-Blake

I think Shawcross will level out as a middle-of-the-road PL CB.

It would be interesting to do this for each side in the league. Would probably be between us and spurs for the best of both.

[johno]

West Ham would be up there too I imagine.

[Dark Savante]

West Ham would be up there too I imagine.

I think they have a core group, but not enough to fill out an xi.

The Ferdinands, Lampard, Cole, Carrick... but then??

[cr7torossi]

That was a big grey-area for me, especially as many of the younger players who move clubs don't necesarilly have the values of their compensation packages if there were any made public. Lee Martin, Danny Nardiello as well as Richardson are 3 that I think most know about. O'Shea's status at Bohemians has always been unclear to me. :confused:

Can't really have Luke Steele as I believe we paid £500k when he was 18. Would be similar to Healy.


That's why I did not include Martin or Richardson. Nardiello is anyways playing in League 1. Luke Steele though should not have been included.


RICHIE WELLENS (Doncaster Rovers)
MARK WILSON (Doncaster Rovers)
DANNY WEBBER (Sheffield United)
PAUL RACHUBKA (Blackpool)
DAVID FOX (Blackpool)
DANNY PUGH (Stoke City)
RONNIE WALLWORK (Sheffield Wednesday)

MICHAEL STEWART (Hearts)
JOHN RANKIN (Hibs)
MARK HOWARD (Brondby)
TERRY COOKE (Colorado)
Richie Willens, Danny Webber and Mark Wilson definitely started at Utd as a trainee.
Rachubka definitely did not, Wallwork is without a club.
David Fox, I am not sure of.

Stewart was poached so that doesn't count:D
Mark Howard definitely should.

Kieran Lee is another miss from the list.

So, the players to be added are:-
Mark HOWARD
Kieran LEE
Richie WILLENS
Danny WEBBER
Mark WILSON


I had a go at doing Arsenal, the obvious ones would be :-
Sidwell, Bentley, Harper, Muamba, Cashley, Hoytes, the new kids (Wilshere, Simpson, Randall), who else?

[Stud83]

I think they have a core group, but not enough to fill out an xi.

The Ferdinands, Lampard, Cole, Carrick... but then??

Defoe, Glen Johnson, Mark Noble. Sears is a youngster with some potential.

[cr7torossi]

Defoe, Glen Johnson, Mark Noble. Sears is a youngster with some potential.

Defoe was poached from Charlton.

Boro and Citeh should have the numbers but not really the quality.

[Republic of Mancunia]

Nardiello is anyways playing in League 1.

Poached anyway (from Wolves) but thought he was at Blackpool (Championship)?

Rachubka definitely did not,

Out of curiosity, where'd he start? Can't remember much about him and all wiki says is that he moved to England aged 7, starting out in Europe with United.

For some reason, Leyton Orient rings a bell but am probably way off.

Wallwork is without a club.

You're right. I read this page (http://www.swfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/ProfilesDetail/0,,10304~5878,00.html) wrongly. :o It says 2008-09 right above the appearance stats of 4 (3) but those were for his career at the club.


David Fox, I am not sure of.

Has a handful of games this season for Championship Blackpool.

Stewart was poached so that doesn't count:D
Mark Howard definitely should.

Fair do's.

Kieran Lee is another miss from the list.

Isn't he at Oldham? (League 1)

[billyireland]

---------------------?????------------------
G. Johnson-----Rio-----Anton-------???
--------Carrick--Lampard--Noble-------
----Joe Cole---------------------------???
-------------------Defoe-------------------

That's what I could come up with at the moment.

[cr7torossi]

Right about Nardiello.

I always thought Rachubka started with a different team but this BS thread (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=241763&highlight=rachubka#post241763) says differently.

Not sure where David Fox started.

Right about Kieran Lee too.

-------------------????
Hoyte-----Hoyte-------????-----------Cashley
Bentley-----Sidwell---Muamba-----Wilshere
--------------------Simpson

Sidwell, Bentley, Harper, Muamba, Cashley, Hoytes, the new kids (Wilshere, Simpson, Randall),

[Republic of Mancunia]

Soz about ruining the spirit of the thread with all the technicalities btw. :o

[billyireland]

Crewe Alexandra come damn close, despite themselves playing at a level lower than the Championship...

David Wright---?????????????--Billy Jones---David Vaughan
---------Kenny Lunt---Robbie Savage---Danny Murphy--------
---------------------Maynard-----------Rob Hulse-------------------
--------------------------------Ashton----------------------------------

Which reminds me...

Leeds United :D

---------------Paul Robinson--------------
???---Kilgallon--Woodgate--Ian Harte
Lennon-----Speed---McPhail-----Milner
---------------Kewell------------------------
--------------------------Alan Smith--------

[johno]

---------------------?????------------------
G. Johnson-----Rio-----Anton-------???
--------Carrick--Lampard--Noble-------
----Joe Cole---------------------------???
-------------------Defoe-------------------

That's what I could come up with at the moment.


Stick in some random squaddies and they'd have the beating of most academy xi's we could construct.

[GrodZilla]

---------------------?????------------------
G. Johnson-----Rio-----Anton-------???
--------Carrick--Lampard--Noble-------
----Joe Cole--------------------Richardson
-------------------Defoe-------------------

That's what I could come up with at the moment.

leaves only 2 spots left to fill and you have an England XI ;)

[Invincible]

To add to West Ham's team, their current young midfielder, Jack Collison I think looks the part.

[biro]

Including players (at their peak performances) would not really be indicative of how good the academy is.

As for defining youth product, I think only including those at the club since age 15 or lower should be included and signing their first pro contract at the club should work fine. I guess that would mean not including Richardson or Pennant (in Arsenal's case)

I'm pretty sure Richardson's first pro-contract was with United. The thing to understand about the academy rules is that young players have to 'join' a club at 9 (!) now but all this does is protect the interests of the club they're training with. The kids are too young to sign contracts but their parents have to enter into an agreement with the club. As most of you probably know kids can only train with a club within 90mins travel time of their home (their are exceptions if the kid lives more than 90mins away from any club) so the likes of Richardson, Nardiello, Eagles etc. where with local clubs until they were of an age when they could join United as first year scholars.

The fact that United had to pay compensation to those clubs does not mean they had professional contracts with them nor that United stole them, it's just the way the system is set up in this country (which the FA in their wisdom thought would benefit the smaller clubs because it prevented the young local lads leaving to join the big clubs straight away a la David Beckham. So instead the big clubs brought in kids from other countries, so now the FA scream about not enough English kids coming through......:rolleyes:)