Pro talent on college teams

[beineke]

With the NCAA Final Four coming up soon, you may be wondering about a player's chances of getting a shot at the (relatively) big time. Well, if he plays for UCLA, his chances are pretty good. For the entire decade of the 1990s, there were 8-11 future pros among UCLA's letterman. We don't have complete data beyond that, but looking at the current upperclassmen, the trend should continue. UCLA is consistently drowning in talent.

[Note: Here I've counted players who appeared in MLS, plus Alex Yi who went straight to Europe and Scot Thompson who hasn't appeared yet due to injury.]
82 (1) - Caligiuri
83 (1) - Caligiuri
84 (0) -
85 (1) - Caligiuri
86 (2) - Caligiuri, B.Thompson
87 (1) - B. Thompson
88 (4) - Sa.George, Jones, Lapper, B.Thompson
89 (4) - Sa. George, C.Henderson, Jones, Lapper
90 (11) - Friedel, Sa.George, C. Henderson, S. Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Jones, Lapper, JM Moore, Salcedo, B.Thompson
91 (9) - Friedel, Sa. George, S.Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Jones, Lapper, JM Moore, Salcedo
92 (11) - Friedel, Frye, Hejduk, S.Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Lewis, JM Moore, Razov, Salcedo, Snitko
93 (10) - Frye, Hejduk, S.Henderson, Ianni, Jakins, Lewis, Razov, Salcedo, Snitko, Vanney
94 (9) - Frye, Hejduk, Jakins, Keller, Lewis, Razov, Reis, Snitko, Vanney
95 (10) - Frye, Se.George, Hartman, Jakins, Keller, Lewis, Razov, Reis, Snitko, Vanney
96 (9) - Conrad, Se.George, Hartman, Jakins, Keller, Reis, Shak, Vagenas, Victorine
97 (10) - Bocanegra, Conrad, Se.George, Keller, Reis, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, Vagenas, Victorine
98 (8) - Boca, Futagaki, Se.George, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, Vagenas, Victorine
99 (8) - Boca, Futagaki, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, S.Thompson, Vagenas, Victorine
00 (5*) - Akwari, Countess, Tennyson, S.Thompson, Yi
01 (4*) - Akwari, Futagaki, S.Thompson, Yi
02 (2*) - Futagaki, S.Thompson

*Some players still at UCLA

[beineke]

Same chart for Indiana ... quite different story

87 (1) Sommer
88 (1) Sommer
89 (2) Deering, Sommer
90 (2) Deering, Sommer
91 (2) Maisonneuve, Yeagley
92 (2) Maisonneuve, Yeagley
93 (3) Coufal, Maisonneuve, Yeagley
94 (5) Coufal, Klein, Maisonneuve, Porter, Yeagley
95 (5) Alavanja, Coufal, Klein, Porter, Rodriguez
96 (7) Alavanja, Coufal, Klein, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko, Porter
97 (7) Alavanja, Garcia, Klein, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko, Porter
98 (5) Alavanja, Garcia, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko
99 (5) Garcia, Korol, Lavrinenko, Noonan, Warren
00 (1*) Noonan
01 (1*) Noonan
02 (1*) Noonan

[Karl K]

I always thought it would be interesting to have an alumni game between MLS/Professional Players from UCLA vs those from Indiana.

The other thing that is striking is how many guys from Indiana -- and great Indiana championship teams -- have either never overcame, or ultimately descende into, mediocrity. And we're talking Herman trophy candidate types like Alavanja and Korol.

Meanwhile, of all the Indiana players, only Maisoneuvve could be considered truly an "impact" national teamer -- maybe Deering, but that's it. Klein is on the fringes, and Noonan may be.

But look at all the Bruins who have been top national teamers -- Caligiuri, Cobi, JMM, Brad, Frankie, Lewis, now Boca. Guys who have been fixtures.

Interesting.

[Nutmeg]

Question: Was Indiana a random comparison to UCLA, or are they the runner-up in colleges that have produced professional players? I am just curious, mostly because I would have thought that Virginia would be the leader in this statistic.

As to Karl's point about UCLA vs Indiana national team players, the one striking difference I see between the typical UCLA alum and the Hoosiers is that on the whole, UCLA appears to have better athletes. Perhaps that is not a high priority in Yeagley's evaluation...

[beineke]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
Of all the Indiana players, only Maisoneuvve could be considered truly an "impact" national teamer -- maybe Deering, but that's it. Klein is on the fringes, and Noonan may be.

But look at all the Bruins who have been top national teamers -- Caligiuri, Cobi, JMM, Brad, Frankie, Lewis, now Boca. Guys who have been fixtures.

Interesting.

Agreed that it's interesting ... I think the root cause is the underlying talent pool in their geographic regions. With the exception of Friedel, all of the UCLA players you list went to high school in Southern California, as did several non-UCLA products ... guys like Wynalda, Balboa, Donovan, Dolo, and Califf. I think UCLA won last year's NCAA title with a 100% California line-up. They're sitting on a goldmine.

Incidentally, I noticed that my IU list omitted Mike Clark. Hopefully, there aren't many other mistakes.

[kenntomasch]

And yet Indiana under Yeagley has 5 national titles, while UCLA has 4. Much like Bob Knight (with whom he is very good friends), Yeagley produces great college teams, regardless of whether or not those players go on to play at the highest professional level.

BTW, a lot of other Indiana players have played in the A-League. I know, because we had a boatload of them when I worked for the Blast.

Strangely enough, Indiana and UCLA play this weekend in the NCAA tournament.

[kenntomasch]

And, what do you know? IU beats UCLA in LA to go to the final four once again (http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/099996-8997-036.html).

[numerista]

With yesterday marking the MLS debuts of Zach Wells and Scot Thompson, it's time for an update on this list. Ex-Bruins like Yi (00 - 01), Gregorio (00 -03), and Maurin (00-03) may still get MLS minutes, so it's unlikely that 2000 won't remain as a low point.

By year, UCLA letter-winners who have appeared in MLS:
82 (1) - Caligiuri
83 (1) - Caligiuri
84 (0) -
85 (1) - Caligiuri
86 (2) - Caligiuri, B.Thompson
87 (1) - B. Thompson
88 (4) - Sa.George, Jones, Lapper, B.Thompson
89 (4) - Sa. George, C.Henderson, Jones, Lapper
90 (11) - Friedel, Sa.George, C. Henderson, S. Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Jones, Lapper, JM Moore, Salcedo, B.Thompson
91 (9) - Friedel, Sa. George, S.Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Jones, Lapper, JM Moore, Salcedo
92 (11) - Friedel, Frye, Hejduk, S.Henderson, Ianni, Ibsen, Lewis, JM Moore, Razov, Salcedo, Snitko
93 (10) - Frye, Hejduk, S.Henderson, Ianni, Jakins, Lewis, Razov, Salcedo, Snitko, Vanney
94 (9) - Frye, Hejduk, Jakins, Keller, Lewis, Razov, Reis, Snitko, Vanney
95 (10) - Frye, Se.George, Hartman, Jakins, Keller, Lewis, Razov, Reis, Snitko, Vanney
96 (9) - Conrad, Se.George, Hartman, Jakins, Keller, Reis, Shak, Vagenas, Victorine
97 (10) - Bocanegra, Conrad, Se.George, Keller, Reis, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, Vagenas, Victorine
98 (8) - Boca, Futagaki, Se.George, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, Vagenas, Victorine
99 (8) - Boca, Futagaki, Rimando, Shak, Tennyson, S.Thompson, Vagenas, Victorine
00 (7) - Akwari, Countess, Griffin, Taylor, Tennyson, S.Thompson, Wells
01 (6*) - Akwari, Futagaki, Griffin, Taylor, S.Thompson, Wells
02 (5*) - Futagaki, Griffin, Taylor, S.Thompson, Wells
03 (3*) - Griffin, Taylor, Wells

*Some players still at UCLA

Speaking of impressive depth on college squads, I notice that ex-Stanford keeper Andrew Terris has gotten a deal with the MetroStars. As a senior, Terris was beaten out by talented sophomore Robbie Fulton. This fall, the tables may turn -- Fulton will be a senior and faces a battle from even-more talented sophomore Andrew Kartunen.

[numerista]

Speaking of impressive depth on college squads, I notice that ex-Stanford keeper Andrew Terris has gotten a deal with the MetroStars. As a senior, Terris was beaten out by talented sophomore Robbie Fulton. This fall, the tables may turn -- Fulton will be a senior and faces a battle from even-more talented sophomore Andrew Kartunen.

Terris still hasn't played an MLS minute, so he doesn't make the Stanford chart:
86: Semioli
87: Semioli
88: Harty, Semioli
89: Harty, Semioli
90: Harty
91: Harty
92:
93:
94:
95:
96: J.Clark
97: J.Clark, S.Elliott
98: J.Clark, S.Elliott, L.Morrison
99: Dunivant, Levesque, L.Morrison, R.Nelsen
00: Dunivant, T.Graham, Levesque, L.Morrison, R.Nelsen
01: Dunivant, T.Graham, Levesque, L.Morrison
02: Dunivant, T.Graham, Levesque, C.Marshall
03: C.Marshall

Bobby Clark arrived in 1996 and immediately began to turn out MLS talent. That should be taken with a grain of salt, however ... Jamie Clark was his son, and Simon Elliott and Ryan Nelsen had played for Clark in his previous job coaching New Zealand. He may deserve more credit for walk-on Taylor Graham, who won his first letter in 2000, after arriving on-campus in 1998, IIRC.

After Bobby Clark left in 2000, there seems to have been a bit of a drop-off, although it's too early for this table to reflect that.

[numerista]

When UNC beat UVa recently, they tied their all-time series at 30-30-7. Historically, UVa has had more talent, but their media guide isn't online, so I can't chart them. Here's UNC ...

86: ashton
87: ashton
88: ashton
89: ashton, ferruzzi
90: ferruzzi
91: ferruzzi
92: ferruzzi, pope, zavagnin
93: pope, t.suarez, zavagnin
94: (4) pope, t.suarez, talley, zavagnin
95: (5) pope, sahaydak, t.suarez, talley, zavagnin
96: (4) e.robinson, sahaydak, t.suarez, talley
97: (1) talley
98: (4) carrieri, d.jackson, leitch, e.robinson
99: (5) carrieri, m.crawford, d.jackson, leitch, e.robinson
00: (7) carrieri, m.crawford, d.jackson, leitch, pause, e.robinson, stokes
01: (6) m.crawford, d.jackson, leitch, pause, stokes, testo
02: (4) m.crawford, pause, stokes, testo
03:

There's always a chicken-and-egg situation, but I find it interesting that their 2001 championship team coincided with a surge in the number of future pros on the roster. If Marcus Storey and Tim Merritt make it into MLS, the 2001 group will surpass the 2000's.

[numerista]

Looks like one of the traditional greats might be starting to recover from a long drought...

Saint Louis
86: santel
87
88: santel
89: santel, sorber
90: mcbride, santel, sorber
91: battelle, mcbride, pinon, sorber
92: battelle, mcbride, mckeon, pinon, sorber
93: battelle, mcbride, mckeon, b.wilson
94: mckeon
95: mckeon
96
97: di maria
98: di maria
99: di maria, jewsbury
00: b.davis, jewsbury
01: b.davis, jewsbury, selolwane
02: jewsbury
03:

[numerista]

Updating Indiana ... they had an uncharacteristically bad year in 2000 -- 7 losses versus 6 from 1997-1999 combined. That could be related to the shortage of pro talent.
87 (1) Sommer
88 (1) Sommer
89 (2) Deering, Sommer
90 (2) Deering, Sommer
91 (3) M.Clark, Maisonneuve, Yeagley
92 (3) M.Clark, Maisonneuve, Yeagley
93 (4) M.Clark, Coufal, Maisonneuve, Yeagley
94 (5) M.Clark, Coufal, C.Klein, Maisonneuve, C.Porter, Yeagley
95 (5) Alavanja, Coufal, C.Klein, C.Porter, E.Rodriguez
96 (7) Alavanja, Coufal, C.Klein, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko, C.Porter
97 (7) Alavanja, N.Garcia, C.Klein, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko, C.Porter
98 (5) Alavanja, N.Garcia, Korol, Kovalenko, Lavrinenko
99 (5) N.Garcia, Korol, Lavrinenko, Noonan, Warren
00 (1) Noonan
01 (2*) Grabavoy, Noonan
02 (2*) Grabavoy, Noonan
03 (1*) Grabavoy

[kenntomasch]

numerista: how hard would it be to add A-League to these lists? I know there are some guys who are playing professionally, just not in MLS.

[soccertom]

Looks like one of the traditional greats might be starting to recover from a long drought...

Saint Louis
86: santel
87
88: santel
89: santel, sorber
90: mcbride, santel, sorber
91: battelle, mcbride, pinon, sorber
92: battelle, mcbride, mckeon, pinon, sorber
93: battelle, mcbride, mckeon, b.wilson
94: mckeon
95: mckeon
96
97: di maria
98: di maria
99: di maria, jewsbury
00: b.davis, jewsbury
01: b.davis, jewsbury, selolwane
02: jewsbury
03:

SLU has had a few other players drafted by MLS in recent years including Kevin Kalish, Jason Cole and Nick Walls. Kevin Quigley an All American in 1997 would have been drafted by MLS but he informed MLS brass that he would not sign as he was committed to Medical School. Another former SLU player Jacob Thomas has been toiling in the German Regional Bundesliga. A number of SLU players have been playing in the A League including Joe Hammes and Tim Leonard. Keeper Paul Nagy has been in a couple of Dallas Burn Camps in recent years.

[numerista]

How hard would it be to add A-League to these lists?

Afraid it'd be tough ... I'm not aware of any A-League player register, and even if I had one, it'd be an awful lot of work to find all the kids for a particular school. In addition, for the purpose of assessing talent, I like using an MLS appearance as my gold standard. If a kid gets the chance to play in MLS, he's very likely to give it a shot. By contrast, the decision to play in the A-League will often depend on personal factors (although there is no shortage of quality players there).

[numerista]

One more list before getting back to the real world ...

Maryland
87: j.garvey
88: j.garvey
89: j.garvey
90: j.garvey
91:
92:
93: r.payne
94: r.payne
95: k.beach, cullen, r.t.moore, r.payne
96: k.beach, j.bent, j.cooks, cullen, a.kirk, merkel, r.t.moore, r.payne
97: k.beach, j.cooks, cullen, a.kirk, merkel, r.t.moore
98: k.beach, califf, n.downing, merkel, ta.twellman
99: buete, califf, n.downing, s.ibrahim, ta.twellman
00: buete, n.downing, goodson, s.ibrahim, salyer, stammler
01: buete, s.ibrahim, salyer, stammler
02: buete, goodson, s.ibrahim, stammler
03: buete, goodson, s.ibrahim, stammler

To me, this looks like MLS giving too many ACC players a look; apart from a couple of can't-miss prospects, this group hasn't accomplished much.

Another kind of "pro talent" to mention: standout ref Paul Tamberino played for Maryland.

[numerista]

SLU has had a few other players drafted by MLS in recent years including Kevin Kalish, Jason Cole and Nick Walls. Kevin Quigley an All American in 1997 would have been drafted by MLS but he informed MLS brass that he would not sign as he was committed to Medical School. Another former SLU player Jacob Thomas has been toiling in the German Regional Bundesliga. A number of SLU players have been playing in the A League including Joe Hammes and Tim Leonard. Keeper Paul Nagy has been in a couple of Dallas Burn Camps in recent years.

Thx for the info, Tom ... for simplicity's sake, I'm just including guys who have actually played MLS minutes. Incidentally, I grew up hearing about SLU but hadn't been aware that so few players emerged during the mid-to-late 90's. Was there something holding the program back ... and if so, how was it fixed?

[numerista]

Washington
90: farrell
91
92
93: russell
94: boyce, prideaux, russell, waibel
95: boyce, mccarty, prideaux, waibel
96: boyce, franchino, mccarty, prideaux, russell
97: boyce, franchino, mccarty, prideaux, russell, waibel
98: w.hart, sleeth, waibel
99: w.hart, sleeth
00: kingsley, sleeth
01: kingsley, sleeth
02:
03:

Also, Tim Lawson, currently with DC United, played from
1994-1997.

It's fairly remarkable how quickly they dropped from 6 or 7 future MLSers to only 2 ... vaguely, I seem to remember that the program suffered funding cuts.

[voros]

Washington
97: boyce, franchino, mccarty, prideaux, russell, waibel
Dear god, how many red cards did they get that year?

McCarty, Franchino AND Waibel. Its like the soccer version of the Hanson brothers.

[numerista]

Dear god, how many red cards did they get that year?


Don't forget Brandon Prideaux ... and Wes Hart, who arrived the following year, isn't too easy on the ankles himself. Perhaps the program declined from a rash of career-ending injuries?