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SouthRef
14 Nov 2008, 06:46 PM
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=592350&sec=england&cc=5901

Sir Alex Ferguson feels Premier League referees need to stop talking about their fitness - it is their speed of thought that really needs to improve.

After a spate of confrontations, one of which has landed Ferguson with an FA improper conduct charge following an altercation with Mike Dean after Manchester United's narrow win over Hull earlier this season, the League Managers Association have called for the much-trumpeted Respect initiative to be reviewed.

Some managers have even threatened to withdraw co-operation altogether in protest at what they see as falling standards.

Ferguson has until next Thursday to respond to his own charge. However, with the principle of full-time officials now well established, it is no longer enough to trumpet how fit referees are.

He feels they should be subjected to the same kinds of training captains of industry are used to.

''Training people to make decisions is important,'' said Ferguson. ''It is the same with any walk of life. It is why you have apprenticeships in engineering or courses in management.

''You need to hone skills, improve and develop them. Referees have to be the same. Making decisions quickly and accurately is key. It is not about fitness. Referees are full-time. We expect them to be fit. It is their decision making we want to improve.''

Ferguson cites Cristiano Ronaldo as a prime example. As a raw 17-year-old, he arrived at Old Trafford with too much desire to entertain and not even consideration for an end product.

Now, after many hours of practice on United's training ground, Ronaldo has been crowned world player of the year.

''When he was 17, we had a job to do with Cristiano in terms of his decision making,'' said Ferguson. ''Everyone said he was a one-trick pony. But if you see him now, his decision making is fantastic.

''Referees have to make sure they are doing the best training possible because their decisions need to be quick and accurate.''

Nevertheless, Ferguson accepts there are occasions when, no matter what training a referee has had, he will make a decision a manager does not agree with.

''It is about how it affects your own team,'' said the Scot. ''Every manager will be the same. That will never be any different.''

Heaven knows, I don't agree with everything that comes out of his mouth, but this idea is not too bad. One thing that can help this (and there are many, so suggestions are welcome): Eliminating the mandatory retirement age for FIFA panel referees.

A brief thought on why this is not only advisible, but completely legal now:
Contracts (and referees are contractors) must be legal and enforacable wherever they are written and executed. Whether or not they have a provision that states that you must leave at 45, 29 or 32 years of age, if it does not comply with all laws, it is not valid, even if you understand the facts going into the contract. If it can be shown that mandatory retirement age is discrimination in any jurisdiction in which FIFA does business or their referees work or in which they plan to hold a World Cup, or Champions League, then that age can be abolished (or FIFA can be made to pay money - and they hate that!)

I always like hearing what y'all think!

bluedevils
14 Nov 2008, 07:45 PM
exactly what idea is he suggesting? I don't see anything new being suggested here. He says that referees must get better and make better decisions. He isn't offering any new ideas on HOW to do that.

At the end of the day, Sir Alex is a coach. A very good one, by all accounts, and one who understands the game very well and at a very high level.

But he isn't a referee administrator or assessor or instructor or idea man.

I mean, the PGMO (or whatever they are called) are a full-time outfit. Is he suggesting that their training methods are not as productive as they could be? My guess is he knows very little about what the referees do to prepare/train outside of the actual matches he watches.

Alberto
14 Nov 2008, 09:25 PM
His point about getting decisions correct is very true. It's not always a black and white decision. So often people in the referee community believe that if you are super fit you will make the correct decision. There are many factors that go into making decisions. Just being close to play is not a guarantee that one will get the call right. Fitness is only one aspect of refereeing. Sound judgment, good communication skills, maturity, good vision, anticipation for where play will go, integrity, honesty and courage are the other attributes required and they are all equally as important as fitness. It just that they are much harder to measure.

Alberto
15 Nov 2008, 03:51 AM
exactly what idea is he suggesting? I don't see anything new being suggested here. He says that referees must get better and make better decisions. He isn't offering any new ideas on HOW to do that.

At the end of the day, Sir Alex is a coach. A very good one, by all accounts, and one who understands the game very well and at a very high level.

But he isn't a referee administrator or assessor or instructor or idea man.

I mean, the PGMO (or whatever they are called) are a full-time outfit. Is he suggesting that their training methods are not as productive as they could be? My guess is he knows very little about what the referees do to prepare/train outside of the actual matches he watches.

One thing that should be focused on is improvement with respect to the visual perception of play. So much stuff happens at high speed that many slight, but egregious actions are routinely overlooked by the referee and his crew.

boylanj64
15 Nov 2008, 09:48 PM
Heaven knows, I don't agree with everything that comes out of his mouth, but this idea is not too bad. One thing that can help this (and there are many, so suggestions are welcome): Eliminating the mandatory retirement age for FIFA panel referees.

A brief thought on why this is not only advisible, but completely legal now:
Contracts (and referees are contractors) must be legal and enforacable wherever they are written and executed. Whether or not they have a provision that states that you must leave at 45, 29 or 32 years of age, if it does not comply with all laws, it is not valid, even if you understand the facts going into the contract. If it can be shown that mandatory retirement age is discrimination in any jurisdiction in which FIFA does business or their referees work or in which they plan to hold a World Cup, or Champions League, then that age can be abolished (or FIFA can be made to pay money - and they hate that!)

I always like hearing what y'all think!

I feel that the mandatory retirement age is a good one for FIFA, and the reasons lies in what I see in so many referee associations, where old refs who cannot keep up with play continue to receive top level assignments when better and younger refs could fill in for them. Now, by no means am I saying all old refs are too slow to do their job. However, these assignments are highly politicized, even more so at the international level, and once a ref is 45 and has risen to the top, it can be difficult to push him aside if his standards slip, or to make room for new refs. Fitness standards will inevitably slip, and if no old refs retire, younger refs will not receive the necessary experience to deliver to expectations.

Once we start making exceptions for one or two exceptional refs such as Collina, it opens the door to more. For evidence of this, simply look at how USSF's fitness standards vary by age.

Alberto
15 Nov 2008, 11:34 PM
I feel that the mandatory retirement age is a good one for FIFA, and the reasons lies in what I see in so many referee associations, where old refs who cannot keep up with play continue to receive top level assignments when better and younger refs could fill in for them. Now, by no means am I saying all old refs are too slow to do their job. However, these assignments are highly politicized, even more so at the international level, and once a ref is 45 and has risen to the top, it can be difficult to push him aside if his standards slip, or to make room for new refs. Fitness standards will inevitably slip, and if no old refs retire, younger refs will not receive the necessary experience to deliver to expectations.

Once we start making exceptions for one or two exceptional refs such as Collina, it opens the door to more. For evidence of this, simply look at how USSF's fitness standards vary by age.

Again, many are missing the point. Fitness is not the only determinant for excellence in referee performance. It is the one many focus on because it is easy to quantify how far and how much time it took. All the other factors are much more subjective. No one has advocated an erosion in the fitness standards due to age. It is true that for national referee's there is a reduced standard for performance in the Cooper Fitness Test based on age. However, since the beep test seems to be the current fitness test, it seems irrelevant that there is a lesser standard based on age. You should not be concerned, everyone in the USSF is firmly entrenched in the belief that younger and fitness is better than experience and match management skills.

saabrian
18 Nov 2008, 05:05 PM
There's so much cheating (shirt pulling, tactical fouling, diving, etc) in the modern game that it's impossible for the ref to call it all. And if he tries, he'll be lambasted for trying to be a showoff. Even when the most obvious call is made, the ref is surrounded by 11 idiots screaming at him for calling what Stevie Wonder could see.

You don't hear managers denouncing this sort of rampant cheating (and those that do are called sore losers) but they're the first ones to blame the ref because their team got spanked 6-0.

I'm a youth coach but I get sick and tired of this. This crap filters down to the lower levels.

If players and managers want accountability of the refs, they ought to demand a little of themselves.

(rant over)

GOOOOAL!!
22 Nov 2008, 04:14 PM
There's so much cheating (shirt pulling, tactical fouling, diving, etc) in the modern game that it's impossible for the ref to call it all. And if he tries, he'll be lambasted for trying to be a showoff. Even when the most obvious call is made, the ref is surrounded by 11 idiots screaming at him for calling what Stevie Wonder could see.

You don't hear managers denouncing this sort of rampant cheating (and those that do are called sore losers) but they're the first ones to blame the ref because their team got spanked 6-0.

I'm a youth coach but I get sick and tired of this. This crap filters down to the lower levels.

If players and managers want accountability of the refs, they ought to demand a little of themselves.

(rant over)

clap, clap, clap, clap
My thoughts exactly.

colins1993
22 Nov 2008, 09:21 PM
There's so much cheating (shirt pulling, tactical fouling, diving, etc) in the modern game that it's impossible for the ref to call it all. And if he tries, he'll be lambasted for trying to be a showoff. Even when the most obvious call is made, the ref is surrounded by 11 idiots screaming at him for calling what Stevie Wonder could see.

You don't hear managers denouncing this sort of rampant cheating (and those that do are called sore losers) but they're the first ones to blame the ref because their team got spanked 6-0.

I'm a youth coach but I get sick and tired of this. This crap filters down to the lower levels.

If players and managers want accountability of the refs, they ought to demand a little of themselves.

(rant over)

This post is a thing of beauty.

Sums it up perfectly in my view.