Bayern jumped the gun

[kotto_bass]

Bayern certainly jumped the gun. To see Bayern playing delaying tactics with the scores level goes to show how desparate we were to see another day in CL.
Anyway, the ball is now in our court. Let's hope the players show us the skills & victory we have all been waiting for.

[Basti]

5 games in the Champions League and only 1 win is pathetic.

[kotto_bass]

Maybe the players are reserving those talents when they meet the bigger teams. I don't think 1 win is that bad, given that the team has also lost just 1 game and the scores have been very close.
Bayern can certainly turn the ignition on (as they did against Dortmund). I just don't know what they're waiting for.

[kahn_wannabe]

They have a pretty hard group so 1 win isnt that apthetic it's still anyones group.

[Catfish]

celtic beats lyon and they advance!

[kahn_wannabe]

if they tie and bayern wins then bayern will be top of group.

[Catfish]

very good point. But Bayern doesn't honestly deserve it, do they? Lyon and Celtic are playing much better footie as clubs overall.

[kotto_bass]

Bayern is lucky that everyone in this group is winning as well as losing, so they're not too far from everyone else. Eventhough Bayern might top the group, they certainly do not deserve progressing to the next stage. I have no clue why they don't want to start playing their A game!

[Catfish]

They seem to be not playing like a team. There is no chemistry. Their crosses are wild when they happen and their defense is weak.

[Basti]

Group A
============
Celtic 5 7
Anderlecht 5 7
Lyon 5 7
Bayern 5 6
============


and...

Group E
============
Stuttgart 5 12
Man. United 5 12
Rangers 5 4
Panathinaikos 5 1
============


I really do fail to see how Group A is harder than Group E.

[Catfish]

group E has 2 strong clubs: Stuttgart AND man utd. rangers and panthinikos r not that good right now>

group a: is very tight

[lond2345]

the problem with bayern is hitzfeld. The coach has to go.

I know people will start insulting me telling me about his great record, and how he is one of the best if not the best german coach there is. You people need to understand the concept of "cycles"

hitzfeld has already completed his cycle at the club and it is time to step down. This happens in football. You can have a coach win it all with a team and then the team will start to play badly and badly. This means that the team needs new motivation. (new coach)

[Basti]

Originally posted by Catfish
group E has 2 strong clubs: Stuttgart AND man utd. rangers and panthinikos r not that good right now>

group a: is very tight

Group E is definately stronger

Sorry but before the season started no one thought Stuttgart would be a contender for the elimination phase. It was ManU and Rangers that were named the "strong clubs" and Stuttgart and Panithinaikos battling for scraps.

Group A is tight only because Bayern is not playing to potential, Bayern have only let themselves down or we would have qualified already and not be bottom of the table. Bayern should be grateful that the teams in Group A are relatively weak to other groups.

[miko]

Originally posted by Basti
5 games in the Champions League and only 1 win is pathetic. Its better than 0 wins in 6 games like last season...:D In my opinion I don't think Group A is that strong. Group E is much stronger.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by lond2345
the problem with bayern is hitzfeld. The coach has to go.

...You people need to understand the concept of "cycles"

hitzfeld has already completed his cycle at the club and it is time to step down. This happens in football. You can have a coach win it all with a team and then the team will start to play badly and badly. This means that the team needs new motivation. (new coach)

Help me understand the "cycle theory" if you would.
I'll offer as a comparison from another sport, NBA coach Phil Jackson. 6-time NBA world champ with the Bulls, 3-time world champ with the Lakers. And his teams didn't have the same exact roster from championship to championship. Discuss.

[Syncope]

Its better than 0 wins in 6 games like last season...:D In my opinion I don't think Group A is that strong. Group E is much stronger. In last year's CL Bayern played better, but was unlucky in many of the matches. This year Bayern are crap :(. If it were the Bayern of the past they would have somehow managed to score a goal in Glasgow and hang on to a 1:0 win--that's what they did against Real Madrid, ManU, etc. This year, so far, it's a complete different story.

The obvious difference is that individual class isn't carrying the team, as it does with other teams. In terms of star-players, Bayern is up there with Madrid, Manchester, Milan, Chelsea, and Arsenal. There are easily 4-5 players that every other team on the planet would want, even the teams I just mentioned. Yet Bayern is the one team that is incapable of taking advantage of these riches. It's embarrassing--both for the team and the fans.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by Syncope
There are easily 4-5 players that every other team on the planet would want, even the teams I just mentioned. Yet Bayern is the one team that is incapable of taking advantage of these riches. It's embarrassing--both for the team and the fans.
The difference imho is that soccer is still a team sport. Individual skills will only take you so far. It's making all the great talent work together like clockwork that's invaluable. A good example off the top of my head is Real Madrid. Becks, Ronaldo and Zidane are clicking. The team is at the top of their national league standing, as well as in the CL. FCB was there too a few years ago with Effenberg as the "boss" who was the glue to the team's fabric. FCB won everything there was to win. And before Effe, it was Matthaeus who performed that job with great success. Right now, FCB lacks a skilled, seasoned and charismatic player who can be the "boss" and orchestrate a sustained and impressive team effort. Ballack imo is currently not that unifying element.

[kotto_bass]

When a team has a collection of stars (e.g. Real, Chelsea, Milan etc), 1 of 3 situations is usually likely:
- The team plays fantastic football and loses (very unlikely)
- The team plays boring football and wins (e.g Milan, old Bayern)
- The team plays fantastic football and still wins (Real)
Bayern fits into neither of these situations. Bayern is playing boring football and losing at the same time, with all their collection of superstars; unlike the Bayern of 3 years ago that played 'boring' football and won it all. When will Bayern light the fire?

[miko]

Originally posted by Syncope
In last year's CL Bayern played better, but was unlucky in many of the matches. This year Bayern are crap :(. If it were the Bayern of the past they would have somehow managed to score a goal in Glasgow and hang on to a 1:0 win--that's what they did against Real Madrid, ManU, etc. This year, so far, it's a complete different story.
Possibly true, but Bayern still have more points this year and still have a good chance of getting through to the last 16. We all just have to hope Bayern improve soon.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by Syncope
If it were the Bayern of the past they would have somehow managed to score a goal in Glasgow and hang on to a 1:0 win.
Certainly. With Elber who on any given day can be a nightmare for any given opponent.

This year, so far, it's a complete different story.
Certainly. Even though we have Maakay who on any given day, err... Never mind.