CL Group Stage Matchday 5: Glasgow Celtic v. Bayern Munich Pre/Post [R]

[miko]

Bayern really have to win this to stay in the CL, but on recent form, I doubt they will. Here's some stats:
LAST 10 GAMES:
Bayern Munich:
22-11-03 v. 1860 Munich 1-0 (W) BL (A)
9-11-03 v. Dortmund 4-1 (W) BL (H)
5-11-03 v. Lyon 1-2 (L) CL (H)
1-11-03 v. Schalke 0-2 (L) CL (A)
28-10-03 v. Nuremberg 1-1 A.E.T. 7-6 on pen. (W) DFB (H)
25-10-03 v. Kaiseralautern 4-1 (W) BL (H)
21-10-03 v. Lyon 1-1 (D) CL (A)
18-10-03 v. Gladbach 0-0 (D) BL (A)
4-10-03 v. Hertha 4-1 (W) BL (H)
30-9-03 v. Anderlecht 1-1 (D) CL (A)

W-L-D: 5-3-2

Glasgow Celtic:
22-10-03 v. Dundee Utd. 5-1 (W) SPL (A)
8-11-03 v. Dunfermline 5-0 (W) SPL (H)
5-11-03 v. Anderlecht 3-1 (W) CL (H)
1-11-03 v. Kilmarnock 5-0 (W) SPL (A)
25-10-03 v. Aberdeen 5-0 (W) SPL (H)
21-10-03 v. Anderlecht 0-1 (L) CL (A)
18-10-03 v. Hearts 5-0 (W) SPL (H)
4-10-03 v. Rangers 1-0 (W) SPL (A)
30-9-03 v. Lyon 2-0 (W) CL (A?)
27-9-03 v. Hibernian 2-1 (W) SPL (A)

W-L-D: 9-0-1

On that form, I have to admit, it will be hard for Bayern.

[Basti]

Some mistakes, Bayern v Schalke was a BL game :D
Celtic v Lyon was a home game I believe.

I have pretty much given up on Bayern this year in terms of Champions League, they don't seem to be getting over the hurdle and it really does irritate me. Beating Celtic away is the only option we have to a comfortable progression to the knock out phase (what Hoeness said is untrue) but this looks almost impossible on current form because Celtic have not been beaten at home for 60+ matches.

However one can argue that the Scottish League does not boast a very competitive league so of course their win record will be better than Bayerns apart from their UEFA cup games.

My prediction: Celtic 2-1 Bayern

I would very much like to be proven wrong though :D

[Basti]

BTW miko where are you from? I guess an Eastern European country?

[aloisius]

This is certainly a season defining game. If Bayern lose I don’t think Hitzfeld will be in the charge of the team in the new year.
I think they’ll finally show the quality that they have and break Celtic’s home strek.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by aloisius
This is certainly a season defining game. If Bayern lose I don’t think Hitzfeld will be in the charge of the team in the new year.

Which available coach could possibly be contemplated as a viable alternative to Hitzfeld?

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by Basti
I have pretty much given up on Bayern this year in terms of Champions League, they don't seem to be getting over the hurdle and it really does irritate me.
There are some catch-22's. Doing well and advancing in the CL as high up as possible is quite lucrative. This money is needed to be able to purchase expensive top stars in the future. Elimination early on means that this source of income is gone. On the other hand elimination prior to the semi-final stage could mean that FCB could focus on its task at hand in the BL. And this focus is sorely needed, because if the season hypothetically ended today, FCB wouldn't even qualify for the CL relegation next season, currently being in fourth position. UEFA Cup would be the best they could qualify for. Perhaps this is an acceptable route to Hoeness and FCB management, but for the diehard FCB fans, it would clearly be a letdown. Expectations are higher than that.
Imnsho, FCB must show resolve and win its last 4 BL games prior to the winter break, especially the ones at Bremen and against Stuttgart at home. Cologne and Freiburg shouldn't pose any problems barring any surprises.
CL this season: I'm with you Basti. I'm not holding my breath.

[aloisius]

Originally posted by Oktoberfest
Which available coach could possibly be contemplated as a viable alternative to Hitzfeld?
Hitzfeld has proven himself as top coach, but if he fails to make the last sixteen of the CL two years in a row , then there’s something wrong.

As for replacements, Bayern could be really bold and go after Wenger. If not I think Auge would walk to Munich if he was offered the job.

[aloisius]

Originally posted by Oktoberfest
There are some catch-22's. Doing well and advancing in the CL as high up as possible is quite lucrative. This money is needed to be able to purchase expensive top stars in the future. Elimination early on means that this source of income is gone. On the other hand elimination prior to the semi-final stage could mean that FCB could focus on its task at hand in the BL. And this focus is sorely needed, because if the season hypothetically ended today, FCB wouldn't even qualify for the CL relegation next season, currently being in fourth position.
What’s the point of qualifying for the CL if you’re not completely committed to succeeding in it?

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by aloisius
What’s the point of qualifying for the CL if you’re not completely committed to succeeding in it?
I agree, there wouldn't be any point. However, the chips fall the way they fall. Now, FCB is facing a situation in the CL in which their chances of advancing, are quickly diminishing. If the team can't find the inner strength and resolve to win games in this competition, the only thing that's left for them is doing well in the BL. That's the only point I was trying to make. Ideally, I'd like for them to win everything. But if we have to write of the CL this year, someone has to sit down with these players and "reiterate" what is expected of them as professionals.

[kotto_bass]

It will be a tough game for Bayern, but I am completely amazed how Hitzfeld has to let his boys lose critical games in Munich against teams like Lyon! There is absolutely no reason for Bayern to struggle against the small guys, with the likes of Juventus and Real all having an easy ride! If Bayern loses tomorrow, Hitzfeld has to go packing. A new coach with a new mentality is needed. Hitzfeld has done a good job, but is now suddenly predictable! Bayern needs to win this game psychologically before winning it on the pitch, just like the good old days against ManU and Real!

[Basti]

Probable lineups:

Celtic Glasgow: Hedman – McNamara, Balde, Varga – Agathe, Sutton, Lennon, Petrov, Thompson – Larsson, Hartson

FC Bayern: Kahn – Sagnol, Kuffour, Kovac, Lizarazu – Salihamidzic, Jeremies, Ballack, Zè Roberto (Hargreaves) – Makaay, Pizarro

Why have we never played a 4-5-1 counterattacking system? I don't like Pizarro being in the lineup he was terrible on Saturday and Santa Cruz is missing way too many chances.
If Bayern can control the midfield then we can win but with this same lineup I think it will be very tough

[Basti]

Bayern will play in their home kit and not their Champions League kit because of superstition... getting desperate?

[Oktoberfest]

Originally posted by kotto_bass
If Bayern loses tomorrow, Hitzfeld has to go packing. A new coach with a new mentality is needed. Hitzfeld has done a good job, but is now suddenly predictable!
With all due respect, I disagree. Hitzfeld is not the one who is playing the game. It's the players who play the game. Hitzfeld must, can and will convey the tactics to them, but at the end of the day it's the players who will have to execute the tactics. They are big boys. They're the professionals, and as such should be able to find enough motivation in themselves to get the job done. We're not talking about a bunch of sissies that need to be babysat. We're talking about a group of highly compensated football players that represent the FCB. Hitzfeld has already proven his coaching brilliance in the days of Effenberg & Co. That same fighting spirit is needed now from today's players.

[kotto_bass]

>> "Hitzfeld is not the one who is playing the game. It's the players who play the game. Hitzfeld must, can and will convey the tactics to them, but at the end of the day it's the players who will have to execute the tactics. "

We all agree that something needs to be done. If a group of highly skilled professionals cannot play coherently, then maybe it is a problem with the coach's skills. Hitzfeld is an extraordinary coach. No doubts about that. However, maybe Hitzfeld is more suited into turning average players into an extraordinary team. Bayern can't afford to keep getting knocked out of the champions league by mediocre teams. The current team is better than the team 3 years ago. If this team is not performing well in CL, with all due respect, something needs to be done with the coaching.

[Syncope]

Originally posted by Oktoberfest
Which available coach could possibly be contemplated as a viable alternative to Hitzfeld? Beckenbauer...at least for the remainder of the season. Not that I think he'd actually do it.

[wolfsburgh]

Bayern 0:0 Celtic. Bayern is now in last place in the group (I'm assuming the Anderlecht/Lyon result did not change from when I looked just a few minutes ago), but controls its own destiny. If it beats Anderlecht in Munich, it advances. Anything less, and it's out of the CL and possibly out of UEFA. A win gives Bayern 9 points, leaving Anderlecht with 7. Lyon and Celtic can tie, giving each eight, or one can win, giving the winner 10 and the loser 7. Bayern at 9 points would advance under any of the Lyon/Celtic scenarios (although a tie would be best, since they would win the group).

[Texan]

Anderlecht certainly saved our asses. Needing a Celtic draw or loss, wouldn't like to see them facing an already qualified Lyon.

Hopefully we won't be too grateful in a couple of weeks.

[Basti]

extremely lucky Anderlecht beat Lyon

[Basti]

I really would like Hitzfeld to stay but if we are knocked out of the Champions League prematurely and lose our remaining fixtures to Bremen and Stuttgart, I am afraid we must say goodbye to Ottmar.

[kotto_bass]

Agreed. There's a saying that if you keep doing what you are doing, you will keep getting what you are getting. If Bayern gets knocked out of champions league, that will be just another strong indication that they need new ideas to bring out the talents of those superstars. However, I would love to see Bayern get to the sweet 16, and see how they react against the other top teams. Maybe Hitzfeld knows the secret to beat the big guys, and not the small ones!