Our Best Starting Eleven

[johno]

Ok guys, when everyone is back from injury, ie. Scholes, Ole, Brown (Giggs has a niggle I believe) what do you think our starting 11 should be and what formation???

I think that we should probably play a very attacking 4-2-3-1

---------------------------Ruud-----------------
--------------------Scholes----------------------
Giggs------------------------------------Solskjaer
-----------------Djemba-----Keane---------------

Fortune-----------Brown------Rio-------------Gary


Kleberson should be the choice as added central midfielder over Butt because he does not look to have to potential Kleberson has... Also Dj^2 needs a good long string of games, I believe to cement his place in the team and get him used to playing as an anchor for the sad day, 8 years from now when Keano retires. I would say when we need some added pep, Ronaldo could come in for Djemba Djemba and we could play a 4-4-2 with Solskjaer partnering Ruud and Ronaldo on the right.

I think that we will have great depth once our players are back and that a combination of Ronaldo, Giggs, Ole Gunnar and Scholes could provide us with enough scoring to rest Ruud for a few matches here and there when needed.

[haven]

Originally posted by mtkillamanjohno
Ok guys, when everyone is back from injury, ie. Scholes, Ole, Brown (Giggs has a niggle I believe) what do you think our starting 11 should be and what formation???

I think that we should probably play a very attacking 4-2-3-1

---------------------------Ruud-----------------
--------------------Scholes----------------------
Giggs------------------------------------Solskjaer
-----------------Djemba-----Keane---------------

Fortune-----------Brown------Rio-------------Gary


Kleberson should be the choice as added central midfielder over Butt because he does not look to have to potential Kleberson has... Also Dj^2 needs a good long string of games, I believe to cement his place in the team and get him used to playing as an anchor for the sad day, 8 years from now when Keano retires. I would say when we need some added pep, Ronaldo could come in for Djemba Djemba and we could play a 4-4-2 with Solskjaer partnering Ruud and Ronaldo on the right.

I think that we will have great depth once our players are back and that a combination of Ronaldo, Giggs, Ole Gunnar and Scholes could provide us with enough scoring to rest Ruud for a few matches here and there when needed.

Formation is fine with me (though a 4-4-2 w/Ruud and either Forlan or Solksjaer up front is attractive, too), but I prefer Fortune in midfield, and O'Shea at left back. Djemba-Djemba wouldn't even be my 2nd choice as Keane's partner- Phil Neville would. I'd also start Silvestre over Brown. Brown is a non-stop foul machine without the cleverness and technique of Silvestre or Ferdinand. I also like Ronaldo better than Solksjaer on the right. Solksjaer is still a better player, but Ronaldo is a better winger. Today is the perfect example of why. The kid can make space with absurd ease. And the crosses are decent, now!

[BillyManutd]

-----------------Howard---------------------
--Gary-----Rio------Silvestre-----O'Shea-----
-Solksjaer--------Keane----------Fortune-----
---------Scholes-----------Giggs------------
--------------Van Nistelrooy-----------------

Subs:
Carroll, Brown, Butt, Djemba-Djemba, Forlan.

[Ferris]

O'Shea is always on the left or in the middle of the defense...isn't he right footed? Why isn't he given consideration to play on the right?

------------------Ruud-----------------------

----------------Solksjaer---------------------

----Giggs---------Scholes-------Ronaldo-----

-------------------Keane------------------

O'Shea----Silvestre-----Ferdinand----G.Neville---

-------------------Howard--------------------

Subs: Fortune, DjDj, Fletcher, Kleberson, Forlan, Carrol

Eventually I want Ronaldo in the withdrawn striker position with Fletcher on the right. In my opinion we also need to buy a top notch defender.

[johno]

Originally posted by haven
Formation is fine with me (though a 4-4-2 w/Ruud and either Forlan or Solksjaer up front is attractive, too), but I prefer Fortune in midfield, and O'Shea at left back. Djemba-Djemba wouldn't even be my 2nd choice as Keane's partner- Phil Neville would. I'd also start Silvestre over Brown. Brown is a non-stop foul machine without the cleverness and technique of Silvestre or Ferdinand. I also like Ronaldo better than Solksjaer on the right. Solksjaer is still a better player, but Ronaldo is a better winger. Today is the perfect example of why. The kid can make space with absurd ease. And the crosses are decent, now!

Phil Neville for me cannot play alongside Keane unless we are missing Scholes... in which case Keane will play a more attacking role than usuall and we will need someone to play a conservative role in the midfield and the experience of Neville gives him the nod. However, once Scholes is back, Keane can split defensive and attacking duties with Djemba Djemba who has more creativity, energy and is more of a threat offensively than is Neville. With that pairing I believe we will be undpredictable on offense and strong on defense.

Your opinion about Brown is yours and I wont try to change it.

As far as Fortune goes... yes he is a midfielder, but right now on form, he is the best leftback we have and unless we change our style of play and allow Giggs to become withdrawn striker/AML with Scholes as AMR/withdrawn striker as well, there is no place for Fortune on the pitch. Quinton has great speed and knows what to do with it allowing Giggs to cheat and go into the box while he serves crosses etc.

I can hardly argue with your logic about Ronaldo, but I can say this... Solskjaer gives us a chance to win games with his great vision, finishing and overall play. He may not be the world's best Winger but we already have Giggs (the world's best winger) he does an adequate job as a winger and then scores goals and sets them up as well.
In a perfect world, ManU could land a great defender to partner Rio in which case we could play a 4-4-2 with Keane anchoring the midfield and Giggs and Ronaldo out wide and Scholes in behind Ruud and Ole Gunnar.

[billyireland]

GK: Tim Howard

LB: John O'Shea
CB: Mikael Silvestre
CB: Rio Ferdinand
RB: Gary Neville

LM: Ryan Giggs
CM: Keberson
CM: Roy Keane
RM: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

AM: Paul Scholes
CF: Ruud van Nistlerooy

Subs: Carroll, Brown, Fortune/P. Neville, Ronaldo, Forlan

**In time Cristiano will replace Scholes, but by in time I don't mean over a few months, I mean over a good 3+ years. Until then he can be a great attacking utility sub to counter Phillips defensive utility usb role, or can start for Solskjaer if he drops in form.

[Mac_Howard]

My own choice would be:


...................RvN
<<<Giggs>>>.......<<<Ronaldo>>
................Scholes
...........Keane.......Neville
Fortune...........................Neville
.........Silvestre..Ferdinand
................Howard

Brown I think is too similar to Ferdinand in style - both are cool, reactive defenders and I prefer Silvestre's proactive, physical style to complement Ferdinand.

I feel sorry leaving out Solksjaer but I still think his best position for Utd is as supersub. His ability to read a defence from the sidelines and then come on and exploit the weaknesses is worth almost a goal a match to us. A change of style (4-4-2), an increased striking threat, less defensive concentration on RvN. Priceless!

I'm surprised that some put Scholes in an attack support role where he often has his back to goal. For me, he's Utd's play-maker these days and is best in central midfield, moving forward, spraying the passes around, making himself available for colleagues in trouble, ghosting into the box from deep or hitting shots from distance. Central midfield for Scholes for me and as important as Keane used to be.

Giggs and Ronaldo I have playing in a flexible winger/attack support role, running at defenders down the wings or directly at central defence. Along with Scholes ghosting through ocaasionally it gives the opposition defences a variety of attacking styles to think about.

With Keane and Neville (though Butt and DjDj are not far behind Neville) in a defensive midfiled pairing they not only bring a solidity to central defence but allow Fortune and G Neville toget forward and increase the attacking options and take much of the defensive demands off Scholes.

This setup, I think, retains the defensive solidity we've seen this season but brings back some of the exhilarating attacking play we seem to have lost.

[johno]

Originally posted by billyireland
GK: Tim Howard

LB: John O'Shea
CB: Mikael Silvestre
CB: Rio Ferdinand
RB: Gary Neville

LM: Ryan Giggs
CM: Keberson
CM: Roy Keane
RM: Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

AM: Paul Scholes
CF: Ruud van Nistlerooy

Subs: Carroll, Brown, Fortune/P. Neville, Ronaldo, Forlan

**In time Cristiano will replace Scholes, but by in time I don't mean over a few months, I mean over a good 3+ years. Until then he can be a great attacking utility sub to counter Phillips defensive utility usb role, or can start for Solskjaer if he drops in form.

Wow... I like your team... do you think that Klebs is ready for a starting role??? My only concern is him not being used to the league and that added to his lack of size being a problem (I would be more comfortable with him in defensive duties when he has more experience because he is so small) I would not mind seeing him play a few games there though, he did well last time out so you never know... Wow, we have a lot of weapons don't we!

[Jon Pall]

Originally posted by machoward
My own choice would be:


...................RvN
<<<Giggs>>>.......<<<Ronaldo>>
................Scholes
...........Keane.......Neville
Fortune...........................Neville
.........Silvestre..Ferdinand
................Howard

Brown I think is too similar to Ferdinand in style - both are cool, reactive defenders and I prefer Silvestre's proactive, physical style to complement Ferdinand.

I feel sorry leaving out Solksjaer but I still think his best position for Utd is as supersub. His ability to read a defence from the sidelines and then come on and exploit the weaknesses is worth almost a goal a match to us. A change of style (4-4-2), an increased striking threat, less defensive concentration on RvN. Priceless!

I'm surprised that some put Scholes in an attack support role where he often has his back to goal. For me, he's Utd's play-maker these days and is best in central midfield, moving forward, spraying the passes around, making himself available for colleagues in trouble, ghosting into the box from deep or hitting shots from distance. Central midfield for Scholes for me and as important as Keane used to be.

Giggs and Ronaldo I have playing in a flexible winger/attack support role, running at defenders down the wings or directly at central defence. Along with Scholes ghosting through ocaasionally it gives the opposition defences a variety of attacking styles to think about.

With Keane and Neville (though Butt and DjDj are not far behind Neville) in a defensive midfiled pairing they not only bring a solidity to central defence but allow Fortune and G Neville toget forward and increase the attacking options and take much of the defensive demands off Scholes.

This setup, I think, retains the defensive solidity we've seen this season but brings back some of the exhilarating attacking play we seem to have lost.

My favorite lineup so far.

[bigpeterbrady]

GK: Howard
RB: P. Neville
CB: Silvestre
CB: Ferdinand
LB: Fortune
RM: Ronaldo
CM: Keane
CM: Scholes
LM: Giggs
F: Forlan
F: RVN

___________________________________________

It really depends on who the opponent is, but this is our best attack minded team that I would use in the Premiership. In Europe, we should probably continue to play the 4-5-1 formation with the same lineup except Diego on the bench, Scholes or Giggs in Attacking midfield and bring in O'Shea and push Fortune to the midfield.

Kleberson looked great in the first half on Saturday, but we'll have to see more of him before he could break in the first 11. I hate to leave Ole out, but I think machoward is correct. He is better as a supersub.

I don't understand how Gary Neville can make everybody's right back. I'd prefer to have O'Shea, P. Neville or Fortune there. He can make some overlapping runs and long throw ins, but his brother has well surpassed him as a player.

[haven]

Originally posted by billyireland

**In time Cristiano will replace Scholes, but by in time I don't mean over a few months, I mean over a good 3+ years. Until then he can be a great attacking utility sub to counter Phillips defensive utility usb role, or can start for Solskjaer if he drops in form.

I eventually see Ronaldo in Scholes' role, too. But I don't think you can consign him to that understudy of that, yet.

Scholes isn't fast, and never has been. He's not going to lose all that much with increasing age, since his game is not remotely premised on physical ability. Scholes is the type of player I could see being very effective into his mid-30's. It seems like a mistake to me to use Ronaldo as a bit player until that happens.

Although, it wouldn't surprise me if Ronaldo eventually became a withdrawn striker, and scholes was dropped back to midfield.

[Achtung]

Hmm, its interesting that so many see Ronaldo taking over Scholes' place in several years. I personally see our young stars developing this way:

Ronaldo-->Giggs
Kleberson-->Scholes
Dj2-->Keane
Bellion-->Solskjaer
Fletcher-->Beckham (sooner obviously, rather than later)

Certainly I don't see any of that happening overnight, but over the course of at least 3 years. Its just good to know we have guys who can fill up any of the holes we may develop.

[bigpeterbrady]

"Ronaldo-->Giggs
Kleberson-->Scholes
Dj2-->Keane
Bellion-->Solskjaer
Fletcher-->Beckham"
________________________

I tend to agree with Achtung, but I don't think in the future (3 years) Fletch will play on the outside right where Beckham played. He will probably be in the middle with Dj2 and Kleberson in attacking midfield. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kieran Richardson develop into a wing player for the first team in a few years.

[johno]

I agree with both of you... however I believe that Ronaldo while replacing Giggs as our flamboiant winger he will do so on the right, at least initially since Fortune is just 25 IIRC and he can play on the left. I also feel that Ronaldo can play withdrawn striker as well so he really is a wildcard, (and will provide us with much flexibility) much like Giggs was at the same time in his career.

IMO The development of Fletcher and Ronaldo is really key to our Future... If we can bring them along nicely the creative aspect of our team will be satisfied for a long, long time.

Kleb and Dj are really iffy to me... I would love for them to be able to replace Scholes and Keano, but I really wonder if we could be so blessed as to have assembled the future of the team in one summer + fletcher. Especially since many thought this was a bad transfer period for us.

[haven]

I think Ronaldo's going to eventually be a better withdrawn striker than a winger. He's got decent size, and should fill out more. He's also not as fast as most of the best pure wingers, from what I can tell. As an off-striker, he'd be easily fast enough.

I don't know. Ultimately, I suppose I just value the position of off-striker more than that of winger. And if a player is suited equally for both, I'd rather him play striker. Giggs is fabulous, but he is rather slight, and tends to have the ball taken off of him too much. I also don't think Giggs is spectacularly creative. He's clever - and can make a good pass. But he doesn't seem to see all the possibilities like Scholes or Beckham.

Ronaldo, right now, has some problems with his passing. But I think he's more inately creative than Giggs. And I think it's going to be harder to take the ball off of him. He's larger, and also has better footwork. He depends less on his speed to keep the ball away. Giggs is far best when he's rampaging forward on a run - Ronaldo can play keep away in slow motion.

I'm sure he'd be great in either role, though :).

I agree that Fletcher isn't really a true winger. His dribbling isn't great and he's not that fast. His short passing game seems better than his crossing as well. He seems like he *could be* more physical than Beckham, and better able to adjust to the middle.

Kleberson... who knows. But if he can replicate that last game often, he seems like a true midfielder than anything else. Balanced, defensively and offensively. I wouldn't liken him to Scholes or Keane.

[scholes181818]

in full agreement with achtung concerning the development of younger players.

My line-up

GK- Howard
RB- G. Neville
CB- RIO
CB- Silvest
LB- W. Brown
RM- OLE
CM- Keane
CM- Butt
LM- Giggs
CF- Scholes
ST- RVN


Give Butt some credit. English International, DJ DJ can get the job done, but Nicky has been faithful to the club for a long time and deserves our gratitude.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by scholes181818

Give Butt some credit. English International, DJ DJ can get the job done, but Nicky has been faithful to the club for a long time and deserves our gratitude.

So was Beckham, and we've seen what happened to him.

[Achtung]

Originally posted by Motterman
So was Beckham, and we've seen what happened to him.

Allegedly that was because he was becoming bigger than the club (something Nicky Butt shouldn't have to worry about), but who knows what really went on there. I think a bit of the problem there is simply that Butt hasn't progressed in the way SAF would have liked. He's certainly been the least successful of Fergie's Fledglings, at least on the club level. But he is a solid substitute, almost able to be a super-sub in the midfield. However it seems right now that the spot is being taken by the new fledglings who have come in, and so I'm not quite sure now Nicky Butt fits into this club at the current time. I wouldn't put it past SAF to allow him to transfer elsewhere in the near future. You hate to see the breakup of that 1992 FA Youth Cup champion squad, but with Beckham in the rearview mirror, it may not be long before we see others making moves as well.