A-League exapnsion to Syracuse

[Hiawatha72]

According to this mornings Syracuse Post-Standard, a group of local business owners is close to purchasing an expansion team for Syracuse. I can't link to it since the article isn't on their website yet.

The article states that the Rochester owner has given the OK to place a franchise here. Currently, Rochester's "territory" stretched from Buffalo to Albany. The team will play at P&C Stadium, a county owned facility that is about 5 years old but is a baseball facility. It has artificial turf for crissakes!!! It is currently the home to baseball's AAA Syracuse Skychiefs (Toronto Bluejays).

Personally, I think that this is a bad idea. Syracuse can't even sell out its college basketball games anymore (33,000 capacity) or football (50,000 capacity) more than once or twice a year. The TripleA baseball team draws very badly even by TripleA stadards. That is despite massive ticket give-aways and promotions. There was a Major League Lacrosse team here a few years ago that failed. This, despite the fact that Syracuse is a lacrosse hotbed for collegiate and professional talent. Then, that stadium is artificial turf. This is required by the MLB Toronto Blue Jays, since the Jays play on artificial turf. In fact, the playing field dimensions of P&C Stadium is an exact replica of the dimensions of SkyDome in Toronto.

If this deal had been done ealier, the team could have played in old Griffin Park. It was an old (80 years) stadium built along Onondada Lake Park in Liverpool about 4 miles from Syracuse. Unfortunately, it has since been closed and will be demolished to make way for a skateboard park. ACK!!!

[Hiawatha72]

the just put the article online

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/poststandard/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/102967056066770.xml

[SueB]

Interesting part to me is their idea to also run a PDL team. I think they'd be better off starting with one or the other (PDL first, in my opinion) to get their feet wet and learn the ropes before jumping in with both feet, trying to promote and support two teams.

(sorry about the mixing of feet metaphors...)

[Guelah Papyrus]

From the Syracuse newspaper article:

''I don't know anything about soccer, so I can't comment on the sport, but I know it works well in Rochester,'' Syracuse SkyChiefs general manager John Simone said. ''It's something they want to try and, obviously, we have a facility. Our only worry is taking the (pitcher's) mound out efficiently, and if that can happen I don't see a problem.



AAAAAAhhhH!!!! Yeah, it works great. $10,000 every time the infield needs sod, and a crap surface to play on. Can't wait to see what the lines look like on an artificial surface for both baseball and soccer.......maybe do the soccer in dayglow orange?

[Krammerhead]

Seems to me that none of those people have a clue or know what they are talking about.

First off the article states that most USL teams average 4000-6000 per game and then David Askinas (a nice man but obviously a dreamer) says they can draw 5000-6000 right away.

Unbelievable. All they need now is for them to bring out Phil Woosnam to say that in a couple of years soccer will be more popular than the NFL.

[slip2break]

Originally posted by Krammerhead
Seems to me that none of those people have a clue or know what they are talking about.

First off the article states that most USL teams average 4000-6000 per game and then David Askinas (a nice man but obviously a dreamer) says they can draw 5000-6000 right away.

To be completely honest, this article blind-sided me. I have heard rumors throughout WNY about Syracuse getting a PDL Franchise up and going.... and according to my information they were only about 6 months ahead of the Buffalo group in getting the PDL Team (which would equate to a 2004 start date)...... If I had to guess the target for the A-League Team is 2004 and the PDL will be fielded next year (hopefully not a-la-Calgary) and that this article is just hype.

I think they could draw 6k, if they went Des Moines route, but no way at that complex. 2k max. average 1st season attendance regardless of if they are PDL or A-League. Based upon my research, Rochester is an exception to all the rules, and that the true USL start up model is closer to Calgary's first year numbers.

-r

[Rhinocuse]

Originally posted by Hiawatha72
If this deal had been done ealier, the team could have played in old Griffin Park. It was an old (80 years) stadium built along Onondada Lake Park in Liverpool about 4 miles from Syracuse. Unfortunately, it has since been closed and will be demolished to make way for a skateboard park. ACK!!!

Wouldn’t one of the local high school football fields be more appropriate? That way they could have real grass, a rectangular field, no pitcher’s mound to remove and less of a season overlap.

I’m a bit skeptical, but I’ll be first in line for tickets. :)

[kenntomasch]

Originally posted by Hiawatha72
The TripleA baseball team draws very badly even by TripleA stadards. That is despite massive ticket give-aways and promotions. There was a Major League Lacrosse team here a few years ago that failed.

Major League Lacrosse is only in its second year. Might have been one of the indoor leagues?

[Mimir19]

Yes, I am thinking they were referring to MILL.. Article Snob: It was a pretty shoddy article. The writer seemed to be switching between USL and the specific league he was talking about..

How much of an impact do people from Syracuse have on Rhinos attendance? If it is little to none, is this why Frank DuRoss signed off on it?

[notebook]

Originally posted by Hiawatha72
the just put the article online

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/poststandard/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/102967056066770.xml
Thanks for the link Hiawatha, interesting article. The costs for entering the A League caught my eye.

"The Syracuse Pro Sports Group will have to pay in the neighborhood of $350,000 to acquire the rights to an expansion franchise, according to Askinas. The annual operating budget for a USL team runs from $500,000 to $1.2 million."

Man, that isn't that far out of reach. Anyone want to go in on an A League team? The expansion franchise figure I have seen thrown around for MLS is $25 million. My wild stab at a MLS annual operating budget is $5 million.

Syracuse is a bit of shock since the area is not that large and the stadium situation sounds problematic. A couple cities come to mind that have nice soccer facilities and arguably better pro soccer prospects (Raleigh, St Louis). But more power to them. I wonder if the "group in the Midwest" is Des Moines?

I kind of like how the A League is evolving. A lot of these franchises are going to fold or move, but over time it looks like a solid core of teams with good fan bases is forming.

[slip2break]

Originally posted by notebook
"The Syracuse Pro Sports Group will have to pay in the neighborhood of $350,000 to acquire the rights to an expansion franchise, according to Askinas. The annual operating budget for a USL team runs from $500,000 to $1.2 million."

Man, that isn't that far out of reach. Anyone want to go in on an A League team? The expansion franchise figure I have seen thrown around for MLS is $25 million. My wild stab at a MLS annual operating budget is $5 million.

Yeah that was the point of the thread I attempted to start located here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5148

Cheers

-r

[notebook]

Originally posted by slip2break


Yeah that was the point of the thread I attempted to start located here: http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=5148

Cheers

-r
I agree with some of your sentiments regarding USL vs MLS. Good luck getting a PDL team started in Buffalo. Let us know how it goes.

[Ian Lozada]

Originally posted by Hiawatha72
Syracuse can't even sell out its college basketball games anymore (33,000 capacity) or football (50,000 capacity) more than once or twice a year.

First off, you can't sell out a college basketball game at SU. They move the curtain back if necessary. Considering that most basketball arenas (college or pro) seat less than 20K, the Orange do quite well.

And as for football, let's see, they didn't play Miami or VTech at home last season, and instead had Central Florida, Auburn, East Carolina, Temple, West Virginia and BC as the home games. If attendance is down, there's a big part of the reason.

The big problem with the baseball situation is that the city made the major mistake of keeping the stadium on the North Side. If they had instead built the replacement to MacArthur Stadium downtown, you'd see a much different attendance situation.

Don't even get me started on the pro lacrosse situation. Why would people pay for indoor lacrosse when they already have the finest lacrosse program in the nation playing in town?

The only major problem is the artificial turf, which you can get around. Syracuse Univ plays on a new grass field (Lampe Athletic Compex) that seats 1,500.

[Tick]

Originally posted by Ian Lozada

And as for football, let's see, they didn't play Miami or VTech at home last season, and instead had Central Florida, Auburn, East Carolina, Temple, West Virginia and BC as the home games. If attendance is down, there's a big part of the reason.


But people will come out in droves to see Indiana, Montreal, Toronto, and Raleigh come to town for soccer?

From what I can tell, Syracuse doesn't support their sports teams very well, other than SU. I hope this pans out, because it'll be neat to have a rival for the Rhinos, but I have to say I'm skeptical.

[scudley]

Originally posted by Ian Lozada

The big problem with the baseball situation is that the city made the major mistake of keeping the stadium on the North Side. If they had instead built the replacement to MacArthur Stadium downtown, you'd see a much different attendance situation.


So true... I went to one game years ago to see the new park and haven't been back since. If it was downtown I'm sure I would attend frequently.

[Ian Lozada]

Originally posted by Tick


But people will come out in droves to see Indiana, Montreal, Toronto, and Raleigh come to town for soccer?

From what I can tell, Syracuse doesn't support their sports teams very well, other than SU. I hope this pans out, because it'll be neat to have a rival for the Rhinos, but I have to say I'm skeptical.

How is the minor league hockey team drawing?

[Paul Schmidt]

Hockey team in Syracuse- averaged 5,306 per game last year, a bit up from their last three years, below the mean by nearly 600, just below the median. They seem to hang in the low 5,000s easily.

Their baseball team hangs in the low 6s, from the previous years data I have.

[Ian Lozada]

Originally posted by Paul Schmidt
Hockey team in Syracuse- averaged 5,306 per game last year, a bit up from their last three years, below the mean by nearly 600, just below the median. They seem to hang in the low 5,000s easily.


I seem to recall that the War Memorial doesn't seat much more than 6K.