Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[goindownsouth]

Now, what happens NEXT summer will depend on where 1860 lie in the table this time next year.:D

I think that is a BIGGER question than this term, really...

[footyfan1]

Staight from Tenerife: Reuter was in the locker room today and said flat out that no one else is leaving or on the auction block.

As you said about Bender's previous comments, that's true NOW.

I'm not saying the deal is between 1860 and Leverkusen, rather 1860 and Bender.


anyone who wanted to leave could do so now with no hard feelings. No one left (supposedly). I take that as there are no current plans to sell anyone else and puts to bed those rumors.

That means there's no plans to sell anyone NOW. That doesn't address this thing with Bender and Leverkusen. It isn't for now.

The only thing that will ease my mind on this thing is this:

If 1860 and Bender announce they have an agreement to scrap the buyout clause in Bender's contract.

That will tell me that nothing is happening.

Until then, Reuter can talk all he wants. Where there's smoke, there's fire.


Now, what happens NEXT summer will depend on where 1860 lie in the table this time next year.:D

You have to get to next summer first. F#ck around and get relegated this season and there will be no 1860 this time next year.

[LoewenBoy]

I think that is a BIGGER question than this term, really...
Given the guys with contracts up soon, here is who I would expect we lose unless finances change drastically:

Mate Ghvinianidze: Up in 2011, I would expect interest in him to spark up over the summer with a likely move between now and summer 2010.
Benjamin Schwarz: Also up in 2011, as long as he stays healthy he is my next big candidate to be sold. A solid left back who has speed and intelligence, there have been a ton of scouts looking at him all year. He is my #1 pick, even before Lars, to head out.
Sven & Lars Bender: I think both are gone in summer 2010. I would rate Lars' chances slightly above Sven's at this point.
Fabian Johnson: Up in 2010, I would not be surprised to see him leave this summer or, at latest, next winter.
I think the mitigating factors keeping ANY of these players will be 1) 1860's finances, 2) our place in the table (aka, promotion chances) and 3) competition for playing time. Honestly, I think it is a foregone conclusion that Schwarz and the Benders are gone. I think the chances of keeping Johnson are good IF Reuter can negotiate to keep him and re-sign him this spring. Otherwise I would say he is as good as gone. Mate G. is the only guy I think we have a chance of keeping only because he has been the least impressive (consistently) of these young kids.

[footyfan1]

Given the guys with contracts up soon, here is who I would expect we lose unless finances change drastically:

Mate Ghvinianidze: Up in 2011, I would expect interest in him to spark up over the summer with a likely move between now and summer 2010.
Benjamin Schwarz: Also up in 2011, as long as he stays healthy he is my next big candidate to be sold. A solid left back who has speed and intelligence, there have been a ton of scouts looking at him all year. He is my #1 pick, even before Lars, to head out.
Sven & Lars Bender: I think both are gone in summer 2010. I would rate Lars' chances slightly above Sven's at this point.
Fabian Johnson: Up in 2010, I would not be surprised to see him leave this summer or, at latest, next winter.
I think the mitigating factors keeping ANY of these players will be 1) 1860's finances, 2) our place in the table (aka, promotion chances) and 3) competition for playing time. Honestly, I think it is a foregone conclusion that Schwarz and the Benders are gone. I think the chances of keeping Johnson are good IF Reuter can negotiate to keep him and re-sign him this spring. Otherwise I would say he is as good as gone. Mate G. is the only guy I think we have a chance of keeping only because he has been the least impressive (consistently) of these young kids.


Agree with almost everything you say here. However, as I've told you since we started discussing him, there really isn't as much of a "demand" for Fabian Johnson as you seem to think there is.

I think there is a great chance that Fabian Johnson remains with 1860. As long as 1860 doesn't go down, I think there's a very great chance that Johnson goes nowhere.

[LoewenBoy]

As you said about Bender's previous comments, that's true NOW.
Agreed.

Until then, Reuter can talk all he wants. Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Naw....to have fire you need three elements: oxygen, fuel and heat source. I think you have two of three here which is why there is only smoke.:cool: As far as the clause being taken out, I doubt that will happen and I doubt even taking that out would do anything. What that clause does is set a cost for him to leave (assuming Bender buys out his cost himself) PLUS the transfer fee. Remember, its not pay 2m and you leave, its you pay 2m and we can TALK about you leaving. BIG difference. What club is going to pay 2m + transfer for Bender when Gebhart went for 3.xm? Naw, don't see it happening.


You have to get to next summer first. F#ck around and get relegated this season and there will be no 1860 this time next year.
Well, yeah, that goes without saying. Get relegated and I think the whole Kader goes and we make do with our U23s and U19s. It happened in the 1970s it can certainly happen again.

Shit, Keith, being around me has made you a pesismist this season.:p

[LoewenBoy]

Agree with almost everything you say here. However, as I've told you since we started discussing him, there really isn't as much of a "demand" for Fabian Johnson as you seem to think there is.
English scouts in camp this week say a birdie.:D

[footyfan1]

English scouts in camp this week say a birdie.:D

So what? Dude, Fabian Johnson isn't totally ready for this game yet, much less the English one.

Unless 1860 are giving him away, which I don't think they are.

Sorry man. I love the kid, but I just don't see it. He's got lots of work to do before he's even ready for the next step in Germany.

[goindownsouth]

Not to get off this positive sentiment here...

What is the closest U- or S-bahn stop to the 1860 training grounds? I am just trying to map some things out.

Thanks!

[footyfan1]

Naw....to have fire you need three elements: oxygen, fuel and heat source. I think you have two of three here which is why there is only smoke.:cool: As far as the clause being taken out, I doubt that will happen and I doubt even taking that out would do anything. What that clause does is set a cost for him to leave (assuming Bender buys out his cost himself) PLUS the transfer fee. Remember, its not pay 2m and you leave, its you pay 2m and we can TALK about you leaving. BIG difference. What club is going to pay 2m + transfer for Bender when Gebhart went for 3.xm? Naw, don't see it happening.

You got his contract? I want to see that. The word I've got is that buyout clause is a set fee. I've never seen one where it means "you meet the price and then we talk."



Well, yeah, that goes without saying. Get relegated and I think the whole Kader goes and we make do with our U23s and U19s. It happened in the 1970s it can certainly happen again.

Of course. Anything can happen with anyone. That's my point.


Shit, Keith, being around me has made you a pesismist this season.:p

Nah. I'm just not to the point where I will assume they are safe this season. I like the acquisitions, but we've seen in the past couple of seasons what can happen to this team in rueckrundes.

Now THAT, I did learn from you! :D

[LoewenBoy]

So what? Dude, Fabian Johnson isn't totally ready for this game yet, much less the English one.
you may not think so but clearly scouts think he is. Not sure where they are from (i.e., EPL or lower league) but my guess would be lower league.

What is the closest U- or S-bahn stop to the 1860 training grounds? I am just trying to map some things out.

Sued Tiroler Strasse. Its a tram stop. Depending on where you are coming from, take U-bahn to Candidplatz or Wettersteinplatz, then a short walk to the tram. MVV has a trip planer but the German version is better than the English one (http://www.mvv-muenchen.de/en/home/passengeraeinformation/index.html).

You got his contract? I want to see that. The word I've got is that buyout clause is a set fee. I've never seen one where it means "you meet the price and then we talk."
From what I am told the clause says that he can pay 2m for the right to leave, but the club has the right to ask for a transfer fee in addition. I have heard of that in pro sports before easily. I agree it is unusual for the likes of someone like Bender, but it would not be out of the realm of possibilities. Other players have had similar contracts. Can I prove that is what it says? No, but I trust my source.

[Lionhead]

Nah. I'm just not to the point where I will assume they are safe this season. I like the acquisitions, but we've seen in the past couple of seasons what can happen to this team in rueckrundes.

Now THAT, I did learn from you! :D

Strongly disagree. The signs are for a top 5 spot, even promotion!

[LoewenBoy]

Reuter gave 1860's website an interview in Tenerife, below is the German-English translation. I have added the "in-between the lines" translation in blue:

Mr. Reuter, how satisfied are you with the transfer of existing activities in the winter break?
German-English: With the transfer of Timo Gebhart to VfB Stuttgart we were able to be well compensated. The transfer was a necessity from an economic point of view and has allowed us to acquire new players, otherwise we would have had our hands bound. With these funds we were able to acquire Sascha Rösler, Stefan Aigner, and Marvin Pourie. The whole squad is stronger. We now have more options.
Between the Lines: Holy crap that was a lucky sale, huh? Thank God Horst Held is a friend and gave us EXACTLY what we needed to the bills, huh? Whew, I am damn glad I have contacts who like us or we would be up Shit's Creek.

What is the goal in the Rückrunde?
German-English: I look at the future full of anticipation and optimism. Sports-wise, we obviously want to gear ourselves for promotion. As for the quality of the squad is concerned, once we get all the injured players to return and form a complete squad we are en par with most of the contending teams and could reach thrid place. But we are eight points behind which is very difficult to overcome. I expect that the team will develope. We must not allow ourselves to drop points against inferior teams and leave points on the table. Financially, we want to continue to gradually reduce our spending and increase our revenue position.
Between the Lines: Damn, you don't beat around the bush do you? Hell, we don't want to get relegated. We certainly do not want to put out heads up our asses like we have done the past 3 spring seasons and drop soooo many points we are in danger of relegation. Financially we want to get our license and hope like hell we can renegotiate these f&#k-ass contracts Wildmoser saddled us with 5 years ago that are absolutely killing this club. I also hope that many of these dumb-ass fans who think making money and keeping players in such an environment get a friggn' clue and learn what it means to run a business in the 21st century. They should pull their heads of of the Weisswuerst pot and learn something about business for Pete's Sake. I mean, don't they have a Strayer College in Germany where they can get an associates business degree and learn something?

Many player contracts expire in the summer. Will there be here in the first training camp discussions around who gets a contract extension or other such decisions?
German-English: Discussions are held, but it is unlikely that we will announce decisions. We will be setting the budget for next season around the end of March. At that time we will also have concrete discussions with the players. Until then, everyone has the opportunity through good performance to get a new contract.
Between the Lines: Did Footyfan write your questions? I mean, Jesus! Yeah we have a ton of contracts about to expire. What do you expect from a club that has to borrow change to buy a Coke every week? Sure, some of these guys will re-sign with us because they have no where else to go. Some guys will leave us because they have other options. Some guys just suck and will leave because we won't re-sign them and no one wants them except some Oberliga team in Farchant. Fact is, we HOPE to keep certain people. I think the "old guys" will stay unless they decide to go to MLS or retire. I hope to God Schroth retires so we don't have to deal with that issue....what a waste of cash that was. Did I mention we had no money?

[Lionhead]

You have to get to next summer first. F#ck around and get relegated this season and there will be no 1860 this time next year.

No chance, dude. why?

1. Aigner & Roesler give more options
2. Bierofka back
3. 3 Mio. banked
4. only 8 points behind:cool:

[LoewenBoy]

1. Aigner & Roesler give more options
2. Bierofka back
3. 3 Mio. banked
4. only 8 points behind:cool:
1. Agreed.
2. Yes and others also near full fitness too.
3. Nope. 3m already paid out to creditors to save license.
4. 8 points can be made up UNLESS we have another sour start to the season as in the past few years.

Note: Torben was injured in training yesterday by Pouire and has an injured ankle. Was in special training today and might be on reha for a week or two more, so any appreciable training in Tenerife for him is out. Welcome to Muenchen Pourie.:rolleyes:

[Lionhead]

Financially, we want to continue to gradually reduce our spending and increase our revenue position.

[/COLOR][/I]

No that's a joke. He was meant to say: reduce our squad to increase our revenue position

Seems to me someone got a sun stroke in Teneriffe.........:D

[LoewenBoy]

No that's a joke. He was meant to say: reduce our squad to increase our revenue position

Seems to me someone got a sun stroke in Teneriffe.........:D
LOL....well, he does have meetings with the AA stadiuma authority, Ude and Bayern later this month to discuss operating expenditures. Given there is a contract in place I am not sure how far he will get, but it just does not make sense that we pay the same cost for 31,000 people to attend a 2.BL match that FCB pays when they sell out the AA for a CL match against Lyon. We are subsidizing FCB and the city and Bayern know it.

Hopefully they realize that an insolvent 1860 is of no value to them and allow us to renegotiate the costs. FCB can certainly afford it.

Wildmoser's business prowess is looking more and more a joke as time goes on.

[footyfan1]

Reuter gave 1860's website an interview in Tenerife, below is the German-English translation. I have added the "in-between the lines" translation in blue:

Mr. Reuter, how satisfied are you with the transfer of existing activities in the winter break?
German-English: With the transfer of Timo Gebhart to VfB Stuttgart we were able to be well compensated. The transfer was a necessity from an economic point of view and has allowed us to acquire new players, otherwise we would have had our hands bound. With these funds we were able to acquire Sascha Rösler, Stefan Aigner, and Marvin Pourie. The whole squad is stronger. We now have more options.
Between the Lines: Holy crap that was a lucky sale, huh? Thank God Horst Held is a friend and gave us EXACTLY what we needed to the bills, huh? Whew, I am damn glad I have contacts who like us or we would be up Shit's Creek.

What is the goal in the Rückrunde?
German-English: I look at the future full of anticipation and optimism. Sports-wise, we obviously want to gear ourselves for promotion. As for the quality of the squad is concerned, once we get all the injured players to return and form a complete squad we are en par with most of the contending teams and could reach thrid place. But we are eight points behind which is very difficult to overcome. I expect that the team will develope. We must not allow ourselves to drop points against inferior teams and leave points on the table. Financially, we want to continue to gradually reduce our spending and increase our revenue position.
Between the Lines: Damn, you don't beat around the bush do you? Hell, we don't want to get relegated. We certainly do not want to put out heads up our asses like we have done the past 3 spring seasons and drop soooo many points we are in danger of relegation. Financially we want to get our license and hope like hell we can renegotiate these f&#k-ass contracts Wildmoser saddled us with 5 years ago that are absolutely killing this club. I also hope that many of these dumb-ass fans who think making money and keeping players in such an environment get a friggn' clue and learn what it means to run a business in the 21st century. They should pull their heads of of the Weisswuerst pot and learn something about business for Pete's Sake. I mean, don't they have a Strayer College in Germany where they can get an associates business degree and learn something?

Many player contracts expire in the summer. Will there be here in the first training camp discussions around who gets a contract extension or other such decisions?
German-English: Discussions are held, but it is unlikely that we will announce decisions. We will be setting the budget for next season around the end of March. At that time we will also have concrete discussions with the players. Until then, everyone has the opportunity through good performance to get a new contract.
Between the Lines: Did Footyfan write your questions? I mean, Jesus! Yeah we have a ton of contracts about to expire. What do you expect from a club that has to borrow change to buy a Coke every week? Sure, some of these guys will re-sign with us because they have no where else to go. Some guys will leave us because they have other options. Some guys just suck and will leave because we won't re-sign them and no one wants them except some Oberliga team in Farchant. Fact is, we HOPE to keep certain people. I think the "old guys" will stay unless they decide to go to MLS or retire. I hope to God Schroth retires so we don't have to deal with that issue....what a waste of cash that was. Did I mention we had no money?



F#CKIN' AWESOME!! "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to LoewenBoy again....." :cool:

[footyfan1]

1. Aigner & Roesler give more options
2. Bierofka back
3. 3 Mio. banked
4. only 8 points behind :cool:


1. Agreed.
2. Yes and others also near full fitness too.
3. Nope. 3m already paid out to creditors to save license.
4. 8 points can be made up UNLESS we have another sour start to the season as in the past few years.


1. Agreed.

2. Agreed.

3. Garry covered it.

4. Others have to lose and 1860 has to win for 8 points to be "made up." How about we let this team show us they can even win first before we start penciling them in for a great second half of the season, shall we?

That first match back against Freiburg should be a doozy!! I wasn't going to go as my girlfriend's parents arrive that day too, but with all this going on, I think I'll have to be at the AA! :D


5. Welcome back Lionhead!!


Note: Torben was injured in training yesterday by Pouire and has an injured ankle. Was in special training today and might be on reha for a week or two more, so any appreciable training in Tenerife for him is out. Welcome to Muenchen Pourie.:rolleyes:

Yeah. It seems he has the "1860 Rueckrunde Program" down already! LOL!! (Just kidding!)

[LoewenBoy]

They followed Gregg around at training today (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/popup/bildergalerie.php?f=ZGUveG1sL2dhbGxlcmllcy8yMDA4L2JpbGRlcmdhbGVyaWVfdGVuZXJpZmZhX2JlcmhhbHRlci54bWw%3D&k=9fbca5075467542c71bda99859070149) and have pictures to show of it. Man, talk about the life....

Wake up at 7:45
Eat at 800
Autograph session
First training at 1000
break at 1300 for lunch
1400 coffee and cake
Free time until 1600
1600-1730 training
Dinner at 1930
Free time and spa treatments
Massage at 2030
Bed by 2130
Oh, the rough life of a footballer at a broke club.:rolleyes:

[panicfc]

the food looked pretty good.