Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[LoewenBoy]

And chance "Lady LoewenBoy" beheading you upon your return? LOL!! :-) :-) :-)
Some things are just worth the risk, my friend.:cool:

[footyfan1]

Some things are just worth the risk, my friend.:cool:


I guess so! LOL!! :D

[LoewenBoy]

Kicker is reporting (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/502790/) that Lars Bender will be joining them in 2010, a year before his contract is up at 1860. Bender has a 2m Euro buyout clause in his contract which he can option. However, he has stated on the 1860 website (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2009-01-12_dementi_lbender.php) that he is under contract until 2011 and has pledged his future to 1860....all the usual platitudes. Reuter is quoted as saying the same thing. So, is this just smoke to cover a deal that is already done? Or is this just further guessing on Kicker's part?

My take? If I were Lars I would not be signing a contract with a team 18 months ahead of time for a sum that could be drastically below what I am worth when the time arrives. Also, who knows where Neverkusen will be at that point OR if other clubs might not be in the hunt for me too? No....for my money this is bollocks and is something someone overheard but is not true. Bender would have to be an idiot to sign up for something SOOOOO early.

[footyfan1]

Kicker is reporting (http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/startseite/artikel/502790/) that Lars Bender will be joining them in 2010, a year before his contract is up at 1860. Bender has a 2m Euro buyout clause in his contract which he can option. However, he has stated on the 1860 website (http://www.tsv1860.de/de/aktuell/news/2008/news_2009-01-12_dementi_lbender.php) that he is under contract until 2011 and has pledged his future to 1860....all the usual platitudes. Reuter is quoted as saying the same thing. So, is this just smoke to cover a deal that is already done? Or is this just further guessing on Kicker's part?

My take? If I were Lars I would not be signing a contract with a team 18 months ahead of time for a sum that could be drastically below what I am worth when the time arrives. Also, who knows where Neverkusen will be at that point OR if other clubs might not be in the hunt for me too? No....for my money this is bollocks and is something someone overheard but is not true. Bender would have to be an idiot to sign up for something SOOOOO early.

When you wrote "them", I thought you meant Bayern, but then I opened the article and saw he's going to Leverkusen. :D

BTW, Lars can't sign a contract 18 months out. This is all a verbal agreement, sort of like what Leverkusen did with Helmes and Koln. They actually tried to "sign" him to a contract two years out but the DFB nixed that shit quickly.

Leverkusen then tried to buy him with a lowball offer, but Koln nearly literally told them to "f#ck off."

If things don't go well for 1860 in the cash department in the next year or so, I wouldn't be surprised if Leverkusen makes 1860 a freakin' lowball offer for Lars too.

I swear man, it is getting to the point that Leverkusen is no better than Bayern. F#ck!

Garry, in a way, Bayern is responsible for this shit. :mad:

Remember, before the DFB retroactivally changed transfer rules to protect Bayern (who had been caught f#cking red-handed cheating in their pursuit of Kehl and Deisler) and allow this kind of POACHING, this move would have been illegal and is still illegal everywhere else in Europe. :mad:

And what sucks is that most others clubs still adhere to a protocol that pretty much follows the old rules.

The two main clubs who have not? Bayern and Leverkusen........

[hackespitze123]

Relax guys, Bender denies that there is an agreement with Leverkusen. Immer mit der Ruhe. :D

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/telegramm/sport-telegramm,rendertext=7043306.html

[footyfan1]

Relax guys, Bender denies that there is an agreement with Leverkusen. Immer mit der Ruhe. :D

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/telegramm/sport-telegramm,rendertext=7043306.html


Thanks man. I was f#cking MAD :mad: about that shit!! :D

EDIT: However, I wouldn't doubt he issued a denial thinking he'd be in trouble or for 1860's sake.

"Kicker" isn't in the habit of going that far with just "speculation....."

[LoewenBoy]

When you wrote "them", I thought you meant Bayern, but then I opened the article and saw he's going to Leverkusen.
LOL.....From my perspective there is little difference.:D

If things don't go well for 1860 in the cash department in the next year or so, I wouldn't be surprised if Leverkusen makes 1860 a freakin' lowball offer for Lars too.

Oh, no doubt he and his brother are the next on the sales block. I just think doing it 18 months out is stupid, if true.

I swear man, it is getting to the point that Leverkusen is no better than Bayern. F#ck!
Hence my comment above.

Garry, in a way, Bayern is responsible for this shit. :mad:
I KNEW it was Hoeness' fault somehow!!!!!!!:D

Relax guys, Bender denies that there is an agreement with Leverkusen. Immer mit der Ruhe.
Yeah, saw that too. I did not believe it was true for a moment, but smacked of typical Bayer/Bayern behaviour. Hell, if I was Bender I would would play my ass off and hope that my value increases.

[footyfan1]

Yeah, saw that too. I did not believe it was true for a moment, but smacked of typical Bayer/Bayern behaviour. Hell, if I was Bender I would would play my ass off and hope that my value increases.


I got a phone call from a good buddy of mine up there in Munich about it. He seems to think that despite this denial, it's still true.

Hmmm..........

Garry, are the people you know saying anything yet??

And he asked me why I still have my ass at work. Good question! I think my next reply will be from home! LOL!!

[The Old Lady Hertha]

Relax guys, Bender denies that there is an agreement with Leverkusen. Immer mit der Ruhe. :D

http://www.bild.de/BILD/sport/telegramm/sport-telegramm,rendertext=7043306.html

Probably means he accepted then :D

[hackespitze123]

Probably means he accepted then :D

That's evil, almost Bayern like. :D

In der Ruhe liegt die Kraft. You guys down there below the Weißwurstäquator need some northern calmness and coolness. ;)

Lars Bender is a good lad, can't see him lying so blatantly.

[LoewenBoy]

I got a phone call from a good buddy of mine up there in Munich about it. He seems to think that despite this denial, it's still true.
If true, Bender is a moron.

Garry, are the people you know saying anything yet??
Nothing firm yet. They are in Tenerife now and most likely gourging themselves on tapas and sangria.:mad: They did say they think its BS....that no one would agree to terms so soon. But, they did confirm a meeting between Bender, his agent and Leverkusen. But "prospecting" meetings like that happen all the time. The team registers the contact and players usually ask the okay from their current club to have a talk.

Lars Bender is a good lad, can't see him lying so blatantly.
Not sure that he is lying. The quote I saw was something to the effect,
"I know of the interest of Leverkusen. I can confirm a conversation with the club. I know my path to [play in] the Bundesliga will continue. But preferably with 1860. I have always said that and nothing has changed that. I have a contract until 2011 with 1860. I do not have any other comments regarding my contract."
Now, if one reads the words and sentiment in the above, even if he had a gentleman's agreement to go to Leverkusen, he would not be lying by making the statement above. He may "intend" to go to the BL with 1860, but that would not preclude him from playing out his contract and having a non-binding, verbal agreement with Leverkusen to go there.

Someone has their facts wrong on this one to be certain. Would not be the first time Kicker got it wrong. don't get me wrong, I think Bender is out the door next summer (2010). I just don't think the paint is dry on any contract. Shit, if Gebhart went for 3m Euros, Bender was in FAR better form than Gebhart was before his injury. Hell, he has not even shown he is "back" yet. He still may not be fully recoverd. Then again, when I was 19 I could fall off a building and recover in 2 hours.;)

[hackespitze123]

If Bender really wants to leave in 2010, and I agree that this is quite likely, not just because he is an ambitious and highly talented lad, but 1860 need money, and can't wait for his contract to run out, there will be much more clubs interested in signing him than just Leverkusen.

That's why the 'gentleman's agreement', if it actually exists, isn't worth anything. If Lars Bender continues to develop like he did in the last few years, there will be a bidding war that summer, and 1860 will earn a considerable sum, at least as much as they got for Gebhart.

And I sure as hell hope that Werder put in a bid, too. This isn't Helmes who didn't want to leave his Rheinland environment.

[LoewenBoy]

That's why the 'gentleman's agreement', if it actually exists, isn't worth anything. If Lars Bender continues to develop like he did in the last few years, there will be a bidding war that summer, and 1860 will earn a considerable sum, at least as much as they got for Gebhart.
Agreed.

And Bender's dad is a HUGE 1860 supporter. He is the one who talked the boys into ignoring the other offers last season and listen to 1860 mgmt. I cannot believe that he would approve (assuming he was invovled at all) in something like this. He is known as a very straight forward, plain-talking Bavarian guy. Hell, he's from Brannenburg....don't get much more rural than that.:D

[goindownsouth]

Hell, he's from Brannenburg....don't get much more rural than that.:D

Ummm... Herbertsfelden?

[footyfan1]

Agreed.

And Bender's dad is a HUGE 1860 supporter. He is the one who talked the boys into ignoring the other offers last season and listen to 1860 mgmt. I cannot believe that he would approve (assuming he was invovled at all) in something like this. He is known as a very straight forward, plain-talking Bavarian guy. Hell, he's from Brannenburg....don't get much more rural than that.:D

Sometimes money talks more than regional or club pride.

And "Hackespitze", Daniel Schwaab isn't a "Patrick Helmes not wanting to leave his Rhineland home" either, but he sure as hell made a very early "Gentlemen's Agreement" to move to Leverkusen too.

I'm not saying it is true. None of us know. However, just because Lars is a "good Bavarian lad", bla, bla, bla, it doesn't mean he and his family are above verbally accepting an offer that blew them out of the water.

And yes, dude, I agree that the verbal agreement ultimately means nothing and minds can be changed.

But my source is a good one. I have a hard time believing he got it totally wrong.

[hackespitze123]

What I meant with the Helmes example is that, provided the rumour is true, Bender seems to be willing to leave Bavaria / southern Germany, unlike Helmes, who did not want to leave home. That's why Leverkusen is not the obvious destination like in Helmes' case - once Bender is on the market, I'm sure that a lot of clubs will bid for him, not just Leverkusen.

Gebhart didn't want to leave southern Germany either, that's why Stuttgart had an advantage also. But in Bender's case, this advantage doesn't seem to exist.

[footyfan1]

What I meant with the Helmes example is that, provided the rumour is true, Bender seems to be willing to leave Bavaria / southern Germany, unlike Helmes, who did not want to leave home. That's why Leverkusen is not the obvious destination like in Helmes' case - once Bender is on the market, I'm sure that a lot of clubs will bid for him, not just Leverkusen.

Gebhart didn't want to leave southern Germany either, that's why Stuttgart had an advantage also. But in Bender's case, this advantage doesn't seem to exist.

Dude, of the clubs interested in him, Stuttgart made the most sense for Gebhart. That didn't have anything with wanting to be close to home.

Had Hamburg or your guys been truly interested, willing to pay the money and been willing to play him NOW, Gebhart would have gone that far from home.

Stuttgart have two central midfielders (Basturk and Simak) who have given them next to nothing. Timo Gebhart will go there and have a true and immediate opportunity to play.

BVB was interested, but didn't want to pay 3M nor could we offer him an immediate chance to play. He just wasn't going to come in and unseat Tamas Hajnal. They knew if they could make the deal happen, he would have come, but we didn't make the best sense for him.

But he can fill a hole in Stuttgart almost immediately. That and the money for '60 is why Gebhart went to Stuttgart.

[hackespitze123]

Stuttgart may have been the best choice for him regardless, however, I'm very sure that I read about Gebhart's preference to stay close to home. €3m may sound a lot, but considering the fact that we paid Schalke €4.5m för Özil back then, and the lad wanted to leave due to the problems there, I really don't think that the price would have been an issue for us, and I think that Gebhart is worth it. And we actually do need alternatives for the midfield, especially after this disappointing Hinrunde, and the continuing injury crisis. Allofs actually has a preference for talented young Germans.

Whatever, Stuttgart is a very good choice also, and even if I would have really liked to see him playing for us, I can live with that.

But as far as Bender is concerned, I think that the jury is still out. Leverkusen may try to be clever and poach him early, but it remains to be seen if they get away with it. 1860 need money, and Bender is a very interesting player for quite a lot of Bundesliga clubs.

[footyfan1]

Stuttgart may have been the best choice for him regardless, however, I'm very sure that I read about Gebhart's preference to stay close to home.

Never saw or heard a word about any preference to remain "close to home." None whatsoever.

From what I understood, Gebhart just wanted to go to the 1st Bundesliga and have an actual shot a playing. I think he would have joined any 1st Bundesliga club save for maybe Cottbus or Bielefeld, who would have paid 1860 at least 3M and given him the chance to play regularly.

From what I understood Stuttgart was the only club who offered both.

Again, I heard nothing about any "home preference" whatsoever.


€3m may sound a lot, but considering the fact that we paid Schalke €4.5m för Özil back then, and the lad wanted to leave due to the problems there, I really don't think that the price would have been an issue for us, and I think that Gebhart is worth it. And we actually do need alternatives for the midfield, especially after this disappointing Hinrunde, and the continuing injury crisis. Allofs actually has a preference for talented young Germans.

I don't believe Gebhart would have ever chosen you guys because you do have Diego and Özil there. He didn't want to be just an 'alternative', he wanted a real chance to break into a starting lineup.

I don't think staying close to home, money, or being in a club set to be in Europe next season was the real issue here. Had that been so, he would have gone to Hoffenheim.



Whatever, Stuttgart is a very good choice also, and even if I would have really liked to see him playing for us, I can live with that.

I would have liked to see him in Dortmund too, but when I talked to people and they said Gebhart's main concern was going somewhere he would have a true chance of breaking the starting lineup, Stuttgart made the most sense.

Ask the guys here, I was saying that long before Gebhart and his people were saying it publicly.


But as far as Bender is concerned, I think that the jury is still out. Leverkusen may try to be clever and poach him early, but it remains to be seen if they get away with it. 1860 need money, and Bender is a very interesting player for quite a lot of Bundesliga clubs.


Of course the jury is still out. And it is like you said previously, even if there is a "Gentlemen's Agreement", it really doesn't mean much without being on paper.

I think an agreement did happen, they didn't think it would get out and that denial was an attempt at a quick cover-up.

The only thing that would make me think the story is false is that it didn't include both Benders...........

I guess I'm saying I pretty much think that denial was a lie, but I wouldn't blame them for lying about it either.

Just think about this question:

What would it do to 1860's current team morale to know that one of the most promising young stars remaining has already made plans to jump ship two years in advance??? Especially after just being forced to sell the top promising young star?? :o

[LoewenBoy]

But as far as Bender is concerned, I think that the jury is still out. Leverkusen may try to be clever and poach him early, but it remains to be seen if they get away with it. 1860 need money, and Bender is a very interesting player for quite a lot of Bundesliga clubs.
Actually, we don't need the money now. Reuter is working to restructure the existing stadium costs for next season and my bet he is somewhat sucessful. In either case, I think the future of ANY young 1860 talent will depend more upon where we are towards promotion versus the need for cash. If we are close to promotion then I'll bet most stay rather than be sold. If, however, we are not near promotion, then Retuer would be a moron NOT to sell off those assets rather than let them walk a year later for nothing.


What would it do to 1860's current team morale to know that one of the most promising young stars remaining has already made plans to jump ship two years in advance??? Especially after just being forced to sell the top promising young star?? :o
Staight from Tenerife: Reuter was in the locker room today and said flat out that no one else is leaving or on the auction block. anyone who wanted to leave could do so now with no hard feelings. No one left (supposedly). I take that as there are no current plans to sell anyone else and puts to bed those rumors. Now, what happens NEXT summer will depend on where 1860 lie in the table this time next year.:D