Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[goindownsouth]

Wow... I need a drink after that one... I guess need to spend a lot of money at the Loewen Shop when I visit in March.

[goindownsouth]

I am beginning to feel like Capt. Yossarian.:rolleyes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Yossarian.jpg

Perhaps more like the captain of the Titanic.

[LoewenBoy]

Wow... I need a drink after that one... I guess need to spend a lot of money at the Loewen Shop when I visit in March.
Shit, they may be having a close-out sale in March depending on how they are doing in the table.:o:(

[goindownsouth]

Shit, they may be having a close-out sale in March depending on how they are doing in the table.:o:(

Great!

Wait I mean, damn, that sucks...

Well, I suppose I could always follow TSV 1861 Straubing if Sechzig folds...

[footyfan1]

Great!

Wait I mean, damn, that sucks...

Well, I suppose I could always follow TSV 1861 Straubing if Sechzig folds...


I'm hoping Lowenbrau and some others step in before that happens, but it's really just a personal pipe dream.......

[LoewenBoy]

I'm hoping Lowenbrau and some others step in before that happens, but it's really just a personal pipe dream.......
Having stable, realistic leadership like Reuter will help a great deal to luring a potential investor. While things like player salaries and transfer income are variables, I think 1860 needs to find a way to eliminate the fixed cost deficit they keep running. They have paid their debts off and now only have an operational deficit to overcome. IF they can eliminate that AND avoid amassing any debt in the process, they will make themselves an attractive investment .

Right now, no investor would put money into an outfit that is in the red operationally year over year. I think this is where Reuter is starting; trying to renegotiate the AA deal for operations. Problem is, given the City's (and German penchant) for "full employment" a la socialism, there is no way Ude (Munich Mayor) is going to reduce the staff needed at 1860 games and piss off the electorate. There is no way you need the same number of workers at an 1860 match for 34,000 fans that you need for a sold out FCB match of 55,000+. And yet, under the German system, if you are employed by the AA you show for work BOTH games and get paid. Ridiculous!!!!:eek:

[goindownsouth]

I'm hoping Lowenbrau and some others step in before that happens, but it's really just a personal pipe dream.......

I am with you there. That, indeed, would be a wonderful thing...

Is there any realistic possibility of that panning out at some popint down the road?

[footyfan1]

Having stable, realistic leadership like Reuter will help a great deal to luring a potential investor.While things like player salaries and transfer income are variables, I think 1860 needs to find a way to eliminate the fi9xed cost deficit they keep running. Their have paid their debts off and not only have an operational deficit to overcome. IF they can eliminate that AND avoid amassing any debt in the process, they will make themselves an attractive investment .

Garry, that's what I believe. Just for example, there's no way they should be forced into catering for each match.

You can get those "Loewen Seats" for 90 Euros most matches (If I remember properly, they are more expensive for the other Bavarian teams and Kaiserslautern), but most 1860 fans aren't going to pay that much.



Right now, no investor would put money into an outfit that is in the red operationally year over year. I think this is where Reuter is starting; trying to renegotiate the AA deal for operations.

Which I hope they can do. Especially in getting that catering crap cut.


Problem is, given the City's (and German penchant) for "full employment" a la socialism, there is no way Ude (Munich Mayor) is going to reduce the staff needed at 1860 games and piss off the electorate. There is no way you need the same number of workers at an 1860 match for 34,000 fans that you need for a sold out FCB match of 55,000+. And yet, under the German system, if you are employed by the AA you show for work BOTH games and get paid. Ridiculous!!!!:eek:

Dude, right on.

1860 only drew 34,000 or more twice this half of the season. Against Augsburg in week 13 ("only" 40,600 on a Friday) and that final match against FCN (57,200). Even the Ingolstadt match on a beautiful Oktoberfest Sunday afternoon "only" drew 31,000 fans.

Also take into account for most matches, the stadium's upper deck isn't even used.

Plus, in this coming half of the season, the only true "big draws" they have left at home are Kaiserslautern and Freiburg. They've played Mainz, Duisburg, Ingolstadt, Greuther Fuerth, Augsburg and FCN all at home already.

To make matters worse, that Freiburg match is the first match after the break. The sheer cold will keep some fans away.

I hope it doesn't get to the point where Reuter marches into a meeting with Ude and Hoeness and says, "Look you f#cking bloodsuckers, there's no way we can keep this up. You can suck us dry, but what will you do once we're gone?"

I think Munich and the Allianz Arena are much better off with 1860 at reduced rent and operating costs than without 1860 at all.......

[footyfan1]

I am with you there. That, indeed, would be a wonderful thing...

Is there any realistic possibility of that panning out at some popint down the road?


No. Not unless the things Garry pointed out actually happen.......

[LoewenBoy]

Is there any realistic possibility of that panning out at some popint down the road?
See above. Would you invest in GM, Chrysler or Ford right now? Would you buy one?

No, I think the only way 1860 get an investor is to look profitable. Or unless some stupid fan or rich Russian business man has enough money to pump into a losing short-term investment with the hopes of turning into a lucrative long-term investment.

Where is Madoff now?:cool:

[LoewenBoy]

Garry, that's what I believe. Just for example, there's no way they should be forced into catering for each match.
Agreed.

You can get those "Loewen Seats" for 90 Euros most matches (If I remember properly, they are more expensive for the other Bavarian teams and Kaiserslautern), but most 1860 fans aren't going to pay that much.
I love the club but am not going to pay that much to see a friggin game.

I hope it doesn't get to the point where Reuter marches into a meeting with Ude and Hoeness and says, "Look you f#cking bloodsuckers, there's no way we can keep this up. You can suck us dry, but what will you do once we're gone?"
You know his style, he is not that confrontational. I like the way he is handling this. He is realistic about what it means to break a contract, but is also realistic that the status quo cannot continue. It will be interesting to see what happens. If anyone can make a change it is Reuter.


I think Munich and the Allianz Arena are much better off with 1860 at reduced rent and operating costs than without 1860 at all.......
Agreed. If they go belly up they will lose that income anyway....and THEN where will FCB be. No, it is in EVERYONE'S best interest is 1860 continues at the AA BUT at a reduced rate. Otherwise, FCB or the City will have to eat the 1860 share....and you can bet FCb were not stupid enough to sign a deal whereby they would have to cover the other AA partner costs should one default.

[footyfan1]

From Suddeutsche.de and taken directly from Transfermarkt.de:


If the salaries of both Gebhart and KuSUCKovic are cleared from the books, this would probably allow 1860 to sign a new player.

The most discussed candidate has been 31 year-old Borussia Mönchengladbach reject Sascha Rösler. However, 32 year-old Bochum midfielder Danny Fuchs is now in the conversation.

Fuchs played on 1860's reserve team through 2001 and no longer features in Bochum's plans.



***My comments: With the players who have been linked with 1860 since Gebhart's sale became imminent, would Copado really have been that bad?? LOL!! ;) :D

[LoewenBoy]

***My comments: With the players who have been linked with 1860 since Gebhart's sale became imminent, would Copado really have been that bad?? LOL!! ;) :D
No....given this info.

Also, just heard that the move of Eberlein to Sandhausen has an option for 1860 to get him back if they so choose. Seems the move was made to get him 3.BL experience and not make him settle for RL-level play.

[footyfan1]

No....given this info.

Dude, I was truly kidding around. That's why I put two smileys there. Geez.


Also, just heard that the move of Eberlein to Sandhausen has an option for 1860 to get him back if they so choose.

Yes, they do have a buy back option.


Seems the move was made to get him 3.BL experience and not make him settle for RL-level play.

Not much difference between the two.

[footyfan1]

However, 32 year-old Bochum midfielder Danny Fuchs is now in the conversation.

Fuchs played on 1860's reserve team through 2001 and no longer features in Bochum's plans.





Now out of the question. Fuchs has been loaned to Kaiserslautern.

[LoewenBoy]

Now out of the question. Fuchs has been loaned to Kaiserslautern.
Yeah, the word was when aigner signed they did not need Fuchs. There was (small) speculation that Sven Bender would be sold as well but that option was shot down, as rumor has it, by their father who wanted him to stay and play out his contract. Plus, VfB ponied up the additional money for Timo making selling anyone else, besides Kusuckovic, not necessary.

[goindownsouth]

So let's look ahead to the second half of the term...

What are your reasonable expectations for this club in so much as results in the table are concerned? Could they possibly get back to their winning, defensive ways? Perhaps Benny gets hot scoring goals again?

Just thinking out loud, really...

[footyfan1]

Yeah, the word was when aigner signed they did not need Fuchs. There was (small) speculation that Sven Bender would be sold as well but that option was shot down, as rumor has it, by their father who wanted him to stay and play out his contract. Plus, VfB ponied up the additional money for Timo making selling anyone else, besides Kusuckovic, not necessary.

Bender. Yes, I'd heard rumors. BVB was rumored to be interested as Kruska is going to leave the club this summer.

I need to send you the interview with Kurz in today's Kicker. He makes it seem like they are still interested in bringing in another offensive midfielder. He admits they are interested in Sascha Rösler.

Watch your e-mail! :D

[footyfan1]

So let's look ahead to the second half of the term...

What are your reasonable expectations for this club in so much as results in the table are concerned? Could they possibly get back to their winning, defensive ways? Perhaps Benny gets hot scoring goals again?

Just thinking out loud, really...

I think it depends on how healthy they can stay and if they get anything out of Aigner.

I think 1860 still has a damned good starting 11 for the 2nd Bundesliga. I think it is after them that the problems begin.

Injuries have killed 1860 the past few seasons. I think they will be so much better if major injuries can be avoided in this coming half of the season.

I don't mean "promotion better", but the great thing about the 2nd Bundesliga is that you never know what is going to happen.......

[goindownsouth]

Getting Bierofka back in the fold will be very important, I believe...