Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[footyfan1]

Sooo... does that mean Sechzig is going cheap at the Winterpause (as usual) and we won't be bringing in the 2 midfielders we so sorely need?? IMO, the kid from Bielefeld is a bonus, and not a replacement for Gebhart.

They're not "going cheap". They are going, "we just can't afford to!" Geez man, don't you get it?



And while I like VfB as a club, selling off such a good young player like Gebhart to make license fees leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. I'll have to hit one of the German boards and wallow in the disgust a bit.

There you go! LOL!! :D

[LoewenBoy]

Sooo... does that mean Sechzig is going cheap at the Winterpause (as usual) and we won't be bringing in the 2 midfielders we so sorely need?? IMO, the kid from Bielefeld is a bonus, and not a replacement for Gebhart.
It iw more like we cannot afford not too. Sure, we could keep him until the end of the year, but we have a $3m debt to settle and HAVE to sell him. Not quite sure where this $3m debt came from....seems to have snuck up on us. Must pay to keep license and Gebhart is all we have to sell. He is hot right now and we need the $$. Think: Goerlitz, Lehmann and Jeremies.

[russ99]

They're not "going cheap". They are going, "we just can't afford to!" Geez man, don't you get it?

And here I thought the club was in the black, ya know, with all the new sponsors, saving on Göktan's wages, etc. How did they get so broke yet again?

I know, it's just how things are with Sechzig, but we don't have to like it. ;)

But it occurs to me if the club kept some of these young players and didn't splurge on big transfers for certain players, things might be a bit better and we'd maybe one day actually threaten promotion.

Looks like another bleak Rückrunde. Let the Klassenerhaltskampf begin.

[footyfan1]

And here I thought the club was in the black, ya know, with all the new sponsors, saving on Göktan's wages, etc. How did they get so broke yet again?

I know, it's just how things are with Sechzig, but we don't have to like it. ;)

But it occurs to me if the club kept some of these young players and didn't splurge on big transfers for certain players, things might be a bit better and we'd maybe one day actually threaten promotion.

Looks like another bleak Rückrunde. Let the Klassenerhaltskampf begin.



Hey man. My post was a two-part joke. I guess I was the only one who found it funny. Sorry about that!

I don't think the club was ever as "sound" as others made it out to be. I said that, but others said I wasn't right. I guess I was correct.

The club hasn't "splurged" on transfers for anyone that I can remember recently.

The problems being dealt with now are still problems that were brought on by the policies of the old management team.

1860 can't make enough in the 2nd Bundesliga to overcome these problems. Not anytime soon. And they have to sell these youngsters to stay afloat.

You don't have to like it, but you need to be realistic. This management team is doing the best it can with not a lot to work with.

I find it nearly amazing that 1860 is still afloat. Were it not for Bayern, 1860 wouldn't be.

These guys are doing a good job. It isn't their fault.

[squidward123]

excuse me, but, how did bayern help 1860 stay afloat?

[footyfan1]

excuse me, but, how did bayern help 1860 stay afloat?

Bought 1860 out of their half of the Allianz Arena deal. 1860 would have gone under had Bayern not done so.

Bayern got a sweetheart deal for full ownership, but no matter how much it benefited them, the bottom line is that it saved 1860.

[squidward123]

Bought 1860 out of their half of the Allianz Arena deal. 1860 would have gone under had Bayern not done so.

Bayern got a sweetheart deal for full ownership, but no matter how much it benefited them, the bottom line is that it saved 1860.

wow...that's out of character for bayern... :D

[footyfan1]

wow...that's out of character for bayern... :D


Doing something that seen as "charitable" by many people, but still also seriously benefits them?

Nah, that isn't Bayern at all! LOL!! :D ;)

[squidward123]

Doing something that seen as "charitable" by many people, but still also seriously benefits them?

Nah, that isn't Bayern at all! LOL!! :D

no because usually, they'll make sure it's only "charitable" on the surface but f#$ks up the other team in the long run... ;) :D

[LoewenBoy]

wow...that's out of character for bayern... :D
Make now mistake, it was not philantropy that caused Bayern to help 1860. They saw a chance to buy a 100% stake in the Arroganz Arena buy buying 1860's stake at .70 on the dollar. they had the best of both worlds: they got the arena AND made it look like they were helping 1860.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful for the help. But it was not "help" as much as it was a business move. THAT is never out of character for Bayern.

[LoewenBoy]

Seems he must have pissed Kurz off SOOOO much that his banishment to the U23s is permanent. So, 1860 is letting him trial out (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/24867/loewe-zum-probetraining.html) but will cost whomever picks him up...cannot imagine we get more than 90k for him.

[footyfan1]

Seems he must have pissed Kurz off SOOOO much that his banishment to the U23s is permanent. So, 1860 is letting him trial out (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/24867/loewe-zum-probetraining.html) but will cost whomever picks him up...cannot imagine we get more than 90k for him.

Sure you guys can. He usually looks better than he actually is. He has loads of potential. Someone will pay for that.

[footyfan1]

I've posted below the image of an article from today's "Kicker" on 1860, the money problems and how much of it playing at the AA causes.

I think if the city and Bayern truly had 1860's best interests at heart, they would let 1860 out of that contract and allow them to return to the Olympiastadion.

Or they would at least reduce the rent......

I realize this photo probably will not be legible. If you want to PM me, I have it available as .pdf file too.



http://i43.tinypic.com/v4at5z.jpg

[goindownsouth]

Unbelieveable... Does 1860 need a Hoffenheim-esque buyer to come in and rescue it from the bowels of the seventh ring of hell?

[footyfan1]

Unbelieveable... Does 1860 need a Hoffenheim-esque buyer to come in and rescue it from the bowels of the seventh ring of hell?

That or some serious investors. Other than that, they need to find a way to get promoted soon or keep finding great young talent to sell on to other clubs........ :mad:

[goindownsouth]

That or some serious investors. Other than that, they need to find a way to get promoted soon or keep finding great young talent to sell on to other clubs........ :mad:

I just don't get it... I would think the thought of rebuilding 1860 would appeal to some investors.

I am sure LB will chime in with a State of the Union type of response... and I welcome it. I just don't understand.

[footyfan1]

I just don't get it... I would think the thought of rebuilding 1860 would appeal to some investors.

I am sure LB will chime in with a State of the Union type of response... and I welcome it. I just don't understand.

You don't need a State of the Union. You just need one word. Bayern.

Anyone who is anyone in Munich wants to be associated with Bayern, not Sechzig..... :mad:

[goindownsouth]

You don't need a State of the Union. You just need one word. Bayern.

Anyone who is anyone in Munich wants to be associated with Bayern, not Sechzig..... :mad:

So the question is... What needs to realistically happen for that to change?

[LoewenBoy]

I've posted below the image of an article from today's "Kicker" on 1860, the money problems and how much of it playing at the AA causes. I think if the city and Bayern truly had 1860's best interests at heart, they would let 1860 out of that contract and allow them to return to the Olympiastadion. Or they would at least reduce the rent......
I think we see exactly how "philanthropic" Bayern was in bailing out 1860. We are the German equivalent of GM....we need a bailout. Perhaps Obama can give us some cash.:cool:

That or some serious investors. Other than that, they need to find a way to get promoted soon or keep finding great young talent to sell on to other clubs........ :mad:
Did not hit the lottery yet so it won's be me.

Had a conference call....translation below.....
In Lowenu-Stuberl in Giesing the white/blue world is still in OK. In the club’s restaurant “von Christl” near the training grounds of 1860-the catering menu has Fleischpflanzerl instead of duck breast; it is not designed for two tenants here and certainly not one named FC Bayern. And journalists are in Stuberl would meet dead silience if they dare to write articles about the “Reds”. An FCB-free world, oh how wonderful.

25 kilometers away in Frottmaning it looks different. There the club shares the Allianz-Arena with their city rivals - and not just a few in the club say that this [situation] is the sinking of 1860. In the last home game of the year against the FCN the 1860 fans just what they think. “Out of the Arena” or "The stadium is our downfall" was there in the sold-out stadium to read on many, many posters.
Approximately 25 million euros has been sunk by the club into the stadium since the completion in 2005, which cost roughly 340 million to build. Currently the club will pay 5.3 million euros a year to the stadium authority and operators. The catering costs alone cost the club 2 million euros per year. Exactly as much as their neighbors on the Sabener Strasse. It is immaterial how many spectators attend. The costs are equal whether 1860 plays Wehen Wiesbaden or FC Bayem plays against Lyon. A scheme which nobody understands.
[Loewenboy Comment: I do, its called Germany’s continued social welfare work program by guaranteeing work to workers not based on need but based on the fact they have a job and will get to work regardless of demand. Think General Mortors.]

"The contract was poorly negotiated," said manager Stefan Reuter. “There is no adaptation as to the league, that can actually not be.” Until 2025 the contract runs. The fans continue to call for a closure to using the Arena and a return to former home at the Gruenwalder Stadium. But the club’s leadership is strictly opposed to such a move. The stadium in Giesing not even up to the standards of the Second Division and would cost 15 Million euro in construction costs to get it so.

“An arena without 1860 does not exist," so says President Rainer Beeck. "We are aiming in the long-term to return to the Bundesliga, that's why we need the stadium." The 1860 Supervisory Board and the Muenchen Mayor Christian Ude said: “The club will not get out of their contract. There is no way out." Nevertheless, the 1.BL is currently miles away for the 11th place team and the Arena is simply too expensive for the Second Division.

Money is scarce in Giesing. The club bears the curse of the stadium which seems to overwhelm it. The club has a player budget of 7.5 million Euro, in the medium range, but getting there was a coure in Harakiri. The club also carried into this season a negative 3,l million euro debt. "There is no new position," Reuter had repeatedly explained. The negative equity (The difference between assets and liabilities) was in this half of the season again increased by 650 000. As a result TSV 1860 was threatened with a fat DFL penalty. The club needed money. Through an investor or a player sale. The latter became a necessity due to poor team performance thus making the chance at promotion unrealistic.

Therefore 1860 was forced even more this tough way to go: Namely, to sell Timo Gebhart. The scouts gave him high accolades. Dortmund watched him, Bremen was interested, Hoffenheim wanted him in the summer of 2008. VfB Stuttgart was the front-runner as they wanted him now [not later]. Manager Reuter, "After considering the sporting and economic aspects, we agreed on a transfer." The finance department had signaled in the next 6 months the club must realize the revenue from a top transfer. Otherwise the club’s professional license would be in jeopardy. Finding an investor, who would pump millions into the club, no one believes in any more.
The Gebhart sale will have brought in about three million Euro. Again a promising talent leaves (see box). However, other revenues are not in sight. And the costs, especially for the stadium, remain constant, even though Reuter said: "We are having discussions in many directions." An delicate situation. FC Bayern has already rescued its neighbors once. In 2006 they bought for eleven million Euros 1860’s share of the stadium and the helped save the Loewen from bankruptcy. Sometimes history does not repeat itself.

[LoewenBoy]

So the question is... What needs to realistically happen for that to change?
Simple: Income needs to exceed expenses. A major investor would be key, but would have to know that he can make money on 1860....a tough proposition. A shorter route to this is to get promoted. However, to do that you need talent, for which we cannot pay....or need to sell to pay our debts...from which we need relief but cannot get relieft unless we get promoted or make money.

I am beginning to feel like Capt. Yossarian.:rolleyes:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/88/Yossarian.jpg