Einmal Löwe - Immer Löwe / TSV 1860 München Official Thread 08/09 II [R]

[footyfan1]

Keith, if 1860 has, say 3 million with which to sign all players about to be out of contract AND to sign/pay any new talent, does it not stand to reason that ANY money spent on Copado is money NOT spent on the other guys?

I mean, if they spend 500k on Copado, that only leaves them $2.5m to sign all the other guys. That may or may not be enough. I think Reuter is smart and knows you take care of your current team first, THEN go after someone new IF you have the $$$$.

Garry, from where I sit, if you can improve your team immediately, you freakin' do it.

You don't worry about what players who might or might not stay anyhow that much. Hell, if the move works, winning might make some of them want to stay more. It isn't like any of them play the same position as guy coming in and it isn't as if the kid in the position is ever going to stay.

One of the things killing this offense is that it misses the production Goektan gave it last season. You can plug a guy in who posted the exact same numbers as Goektan dirt cheap and you say no because he's older?? Because it might send "the wrong message" to guys who probably aren't going to stay anyhow and don't do anything to solve the club's major problem if they do?

Well, Goektan was younger, what happened to him?

The point I'm trying to make here is, you don't "know." I don't "know" with Copado, you don't "know" with anyone.

But at least with Copado, the evidence pointed to his more than likely being able to fill that void for about two seasons at a price 1860 can easily afford. That would have given them ample time to find or develop a solution for that problem position.

We know that either way this is going to be Gebhart's last season in Munich. Well, unless he moves to Bayern to replace Kroos if they let Kroos go that is..... (Just for you Squid! ;) )

Garry, think about it. If you do with an open mind, you know they can't keep all those guys you mentioned and even if they could, none of them fills that gaping hole in midfield.

What good is keeping all those guys if none of them addresses your major problem?

You haven't come up with one who addresses the problem. You seem to only know what you would rather have and the other option has no chance.

But this shit is getting old. We don't have to agree and we won't.

You seem to think it is more important that they try to take care of guys who might or might not stick around (you admitted that yourself with your list) and I feel they should have taken a chance on someone who can help them immediately by filling that attacking midfield void and bridging the gap until they can find a longer-term solution.

We know they aren't going to sign Copado, so I don't see the reason to continue this disagreement. I agree to disagree. I don't want to spend the entire freakin' winter break arguing this subject.

[footyfan1]

How's this for speculation??

Transfermarkt quotes speculation from a Munich newspaper that BVB "could" offer 1860 Munich Giovanni Federico and cash for 1860's 19 year-old midfield ace Timo Gebhart.

Of course, I think it is total bullshit, as BVB has apparently agreed to terms on a Federico loan to KSC, but hey, it's the winter break! LOL!! :D


The original story in German at this link. (http://www.abendzeitung.de/sport/tsv_1860/74424)

[footyfan1]

Great news!! According to Transfermarkt.de, Benny Schwarz has already extended his contract.

He's now signed through 2011.

Garry, it looks like Reuter picked the same player to make his priority that we did.

Quick Transfermarkt.de article in German here (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/24651/1860-schwarz-verlaengert.html)

[LoewenBoy]

Garry, from where I sit, if you can improve your team immediately, you freakin' do it. You don't worry about what players who might or might not stay anyhow that much. Hell, if the move works, winning might make some of them want to stay more. It isn't like any of them play the same position as guy coming in and it isn't as if the kid in the position is ever going to stay.
Dude, you totally miss the point. It has nothing to do with competition for POSITIONS. It has to do with limited funds. Look, if you only have 10 Euros and want to eat AND drink at the Weis'n, you have to make a choice: do I get a Mass or do I get a sausage plate. You clearly do not have money for both. You might be able to get a small coke and one sausage at a stand, but neither will fulfill your need.


One of the things killing this offense is that it misses the production Goektan gave it last season. You can plug a guy in who posted the exact same numbers as Goektan dirt cheap and you say no because he's older?? Because it might send "the wrong message" to guys who probably aren't going to stay anyhow and don't do anything to solve the club's major problem if they do?

I don't disagree that we need someone to fill in there. But I think we have a decent chance at keeping some of these guys who have contracts expiring. If we do not get them squared away, we will have to spend MORE money this summer to backfill for them and then we have to start that WHOLE integration process all over again.


The point I'm trying to make here is, you don't "know." I don't "know" with Copado, you don't "know" with anyone. But at least with Copado, the evidence pointed to his more than likely being able to fill that void for about two seasons at a price 1860 can easily afford. That would have given them ample time to find or develop a solution for that problem position.
I don't disagree with this. I just don't think we can have a Mass and a sausage plate at the same time. We simply do not have enough money.


Garry, think about it. If you do with an open mind, you know they can't keep all those guys you mentioned and even if they could, none of them fills that gaping hole in midfield.
I know we cannnot keep ALL of them, but we can keep SOME of them. If we simply keep Schwarz, Ledgerwood and Schaeffler I will be happy. The rest can go.


What good is keeping all those guys if none of them addresses your major problem?
Our MAJOR problem is defense....has been for years. We depserately need a solid defensive line. Looking at contracts up this year (Berhalter, Hofmann, Schwarz, Eberlein, Baumgartlinger, Jungwirth, etc) that is the bulk of our current AND future defense!!!! THAT is a priority, not the AM position. As luck would have it, just got IM'd by a friend saying that rumor is Benny will extend today!!!!!:D


But this shit is getting old. We don't have to agree and we won't.
I agree and not trying to change your mind. You think AM is a key role, I see holding key defensive talent at the key. Let's see who knows Reuter best.:D


You seem to think it is more important that they try to take care of guys who might or might not stick around (you admitted that yourself with your list) and I feel they should have taken a chance on someone who can help them immediately by filling that attacking midfield void and bridging the gap until they can find a longer-term solution.
EXACTLY....because, as I point out, you have AT LEAST 7 key players with contracts up. Why sign one dude when you have 7 or more of your current key dudes out of contract in June?


We know they aren't going to sign Copado, so I don't see the reason to continue this disagreement. I agree to disagree. I don't want to spend the entire freakin' winter break arguing this subject.
Yes you do.:D

[LoewenBoy]

Great news!! According to Transfermarkt.de, Benny Schwarz has already extended his contract.

He's now signed through 2011.

Garry, it looks like Reuter picked the same player to make his priority that we did.

Quick Transfermarkt.de article in German here (http://www.transfermarkt.de/de/news/24651/1860-schwarz-verlaengert.html)
Hearing a second "re-signing" is coming later this week. Ledgerwood is said to have agreed to terms with 1860 and extending through 2011.

EDIT: Also, seems Berhalter is in talks to stick around 1860 another year. No word on the deal but I am hearing he may take a reduced salary with incentives for other things (i.e., coaching license, number of appearances, etc.)

[footyfan1]

Hearing a second "re-signing" is coming later this week. Ledgerwood is said to have agreed to terms with 1860 and extending through 2011.


He's the second guy I said I'd do all I could to keep. I said I'd dump D. Schwarz as a show of faith to this kid.

It's at the bottom of all the other crap! ;)


http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=16512455&postcount=206

[LoewenBoy]

He's the second guy I said I'd do all I could to keep. I said I'd dump D. Schwarz as a show of faith to this kid.



Club Manager Stefan Reuter on working with Benjamin Schwarz: "He has in the past two years proved what potential lies in him. We are confident that he will develop even further and look forward to having another young player from the region bound long term term to the club."

Geschäftsführer Stefan Reuter zur weiteren Zusammenarbeit mit Benjamin Schwarz: „Er hat in den vergangenen beiden Jahren bewiesen, welch Potenzial in ihm steckt. Wir sind überzeugt, dass er sich noch weiterentwickeln wird und freuen uns, einen weiteren jungen Spieler aus der Region langfristig an den Verein gebunden zu haben."
Benjamin Scwhar on the contract extension: "I am delighted with the great confidence that the club has in me. My aim is to further develop in order to be successful with the Münchner Löwen. "
Benjamin Schwarz zur Vertragsverlängerung: „Ich freue mich über das große Vertrauen, das der Verein mir entgegenbringt. Mein Ziel ist es, mich sportlich stetig weiter zu entwickeln, um mit den Münchner Löwen erfolgreich zu sein."

[LoewenBoy]

And on the rumor of Schaeffler going to BVB.....seems a BVB scout was in Muenchen (do not know why) but was seen leaving Retuer's office. Turns out he is a friend of Reuter's and was merely there to drop off an Xmas card and say hi. Wow, how rumor start.:D

[footyfan1]

EDIT: Also, seems Berhalter is in talks to stick around 1860 another year. No word on the deal but I am hearing he may take a reduced salary with incentives for other things (i.e., coaching license, number of appearances, etc.)

Gregg knows he won't get it better anywhere else. He's smart. Shit, one day, he might succeed Kurz or Reuter.......

[LoewenBoy]

Gregg knows he won't get it better anywhere else. He's smart. Shit, one day, he might succeed Kurz or Reuter.......
Rumor is that he would get a role in the Jugend abteilung since he is so good with kids; likely with the U19 team with the potential of going to the U23 team when he has the right license.

Am getting this from a third party who overheard a few things this weekend at the hotel you were at.;) Not sure who they overheard, but that was the topic.

[panicfc]

From youth teams, to first team coach, to National Team coach!!!

Berhalter.

I miss the funny pics LB used to make all the time.

[LoewenBoy]

I miss the funny pics LB used to make all the time.
LOL...was just thinking about that. I honestly have gained a tremendous amount of respect for him. He is a quiet guy who is a true leader. He does not bitch and moan, does not wanker about in the press, truly speaks his mind and tows the party line. No wonder he had found a home in Cottbus and now in Muenchen. He is a true adventurer having spent 2 years each with several clubs before settling in for 4 years at Cottbus. I bet Muenchen is a paradise to him compared to Cottbus.:D

Honestly, I would like to see him stick around. He has earne the respect and trust of many in the 1860 organization and would be a great guy to potentially open up a pipeline from the US into the 2.BL. Heck, bet he becomes a coach or an agent.:cool:

[footyfan1]

LOL...was just thinking about that. I honestly have gained a tremendous amount of respect for him. He is a quiet guy who is a true leader. He does not bitch and moan, does not wanker about in the press, truly speaks his mind and tows the party line. No wonder he had found a home in Cottbus and now in Muenchen. He is a true adventurer having spent 2 years each with several clubs before settling in for 4 years at Cottbus. I bet Muenchen is a paradise to him compared to Cottbus.:D

Honestly, I would like to see him stick around. He has earne the respect and trust of many in the 1860 organization and would be a great guy to potentially open up a pipeline from the US into the 2.BL. Heck, bet he becomes a coach or an agent.:cool:


I don't think I've ever agreed with a post of yours more.

[panicfc]

LOL...was just thinking about that. I honestly have gained a tremendous amount of respect for him. He is a quiet guy who is a true leader. He does not bitch and moan, does not wanker about in the press, truly speaks his mind and tows the party line. No wonder he had found a home in Cottbus and now in Muenchen. He is a true adventurer having spent 2 years each with several clubs before settling in for 4 years at Cottbus. I bet Muenchen is a paradise to him compared to Cottbus.:D

Honestly, I would like to see him stick around. He has earne the respect and trust of many in the 1860 organization and would be a great guy to potentially open up a pipeline from the US into the 2.BL. Heck, bet he becomes a coach or an agent.:cool:


I can tell how much you have grown to respect him. He sounds like a great ambassador for US soccer as well.

But that said, I want the funny pictures. Doesn't have to be Berhalter, would be better if it was Lucio (prick), Ribery, Toni (Louganis), Uli, whoever.

;)

[LoewenBoy]

But that said, I want the funny pictures. Doesn't have to be Berhalter, would be better if it was Lucio (prick), Ribery, Toni (Louganis), Uli, whoever.
I have been remiss. Though if you want to see the old ones I have them posted here (http://www.mozartbrau.com/TexasLoewen/index.htm).

[panicfc]

always worth a laugh.

The anti-Bayern stuff was awesome.

[panicfc]

Okay so hearing Timo Gebhardt to Stuttgart or Bremen, who else is chasing?

[footyfan1]

Okay so hearing Timo Gebhardt to Stuttgart or Bremen, who else is chasing?

As discussed here before, Dortmund and Hoffenheim. :)

There was a bullshit rumor started in a Munich paper going around last week that Dortmund was prepared to offer Federico and cash in exchange, but as expected, Federico was sent to KSC on loan for the rest of this season. Rumor is, KSC was given a 1M buy option.

Of the clubs most rumored to want him, in my opinion, Stuttgart would make the most sense for Timo. Stuttgart, then Dortmund, Bremen and Hoffenheim in that order.

Why?

In Stuttgart, despite their recent resurgence, they really don't have consistent play from the attacking midfield position. Khedira has been doing that recently, but can he keep it up?

Stuttgart will probably get rid of that 3M per season mistake Yildray Basturk. I believe Basturk will be sold after this season to a Turkish club. I believe Basturk is done in Deutschland unless he's willing to return to Bochum. Jan Simak has been either injured or wholly inconsistent for Stuttgart. I think Timo would fit in well there and actually have a decent chance at winning a starting position. And, Stuttgart can pay 1860 a decent transfer fee.

At Dortmund, Timo would move right in as Tamas Hajnal's backup. BVB doesn't even play "former phenom" Nuri Sahin in the middle that much. He gets most of the time he does get backing up on the left wing. Timo wouldn't start at BVB just yet, but he would get a good amount of playing time and would probably also be taught to back up Kuba on the right wing. Not that he would need that much teaching. I also believe Klopp is second only to Rangnick on this list when it comes to developing young talent. The cons for BVB? BVB probably could not pay 1860 or Timo as much as Stuttgart can. BVB would probably still offer a player/cash swap with possibly new Polish international and offensive all-arounder Sebastian Tyrala going to 1860 in return. That is not based in any management comments or fact, just speculation on my part. I think it would make sense.


At Bremen, if he is to remain an attacking midfielder, he's stuck behind Diego and Oezil and would have to battle Aaron Hunt for the chance to fight Diego and Oezil for a spot. At least for one season anyhow. I get the feeling next season will be Diego's last in Bremen, but that still leaves Oezil (under contract in Bremen until the end of the 2010/2011 season) and Hunt (out of contract in Bremen after next season, but probably will extend there).

Bremen could also pay what 1860 wants for Gebhart.


Why do I have Hoffenheim at the bottom? Simple. While Rangnick is the best at getting the best out of his players, Hoffenheim doesn't have "set positions." Rangnick can play the guys he has now in just about any formation and do it effectively. Meaning, while Salihovic is their only listed "central midfielder" and Teber is their only listed "offensive midfielder", Rangnick can move Carlos Eduardo all over the midfield with Luiz Gustavo, Isaac Vorsah or Tobias Weis acting as the lone defensive midfielder. He can go all "offensive" with Salihovic, Eduardo, and dropping Ba back. I look at their roster and I just don't see where Timo Gebhart fits in. At least where Gebhart would "fit in" and be satisfied. I like the kid, but besides Teber, Gebhart can't stand up to the players I mentioned just yet.

He'd probably make better money at Hoffenheim than the other places, but if he wants to play and "raise his star", I think he'd be better off at Stuttgart or Dortmund.

Again, just my opinion........

[hackespitze123]

At Bremen, if he is to remain an attacking midfielder, he's stuck behind Diego and Oezil and would have to battle Aaron Hunt for the chance to fight Diego and Oezil for a spot. At least for one season anyhow. I get the feeling next season will be Diego's last in Bremen, but that still leaves Oezil (under contract in Bremen until the end of the 2010/2011 season) and Hunt (out of contract in Bremen after next season, but probably will extend there).

Bremen could also pay what 1860 wants for Gebhart.

In Bremen, he'd play RM most of the time, and due to his versatility, he'd be an alternative for #10 also. He is exactly the kind of player we need for the wings in our diamond midfield - excellent technique and passing, fast, robust, intelligent, hard working, and huge potential to improve.

And we actually do need a midfield allrounder badly - Baumann is likely going to retire soon, Frings will move to the DM. Gebhart basically would be Frings' replacement on the right.

Unfortunately, it seems like Gebhart does not want to leave southern Germany, that's why Stuttgart (or Hoffenheim) are more likely.

[footyfan1]

In Bremen, he'd play RM most of the time, and due to his versatility, he'd be an alternative for #10 also. He is exactly the kind of player we need for the wings in our diamond midfield - excellent technique and passing, fast, robust, intelligent, hard working, and huge potential to improve.

And we actually do need a midfield allrounder badly - Baumann is likely going to retire soon, Frings will move to the DM. Gebhart basically would be Frings' replacement on the right.

Unfortunately, it seems like Gebhart does not want to leave southern Germany, that's why Stuttgart (or Hoffenheim) are more likely.


Thanks for clearing that up situation for me. Much appreciated! :)

I actually think playing time and sporting prospects of the club are going to be the biggest factors for this kid.

That would certainly put you guys ahead of Dortmund, but on par with Stuttgart in my opinion.